Talk:Quinn Simmons

Controversy

I understand that this was a cited contribution, which was included two years ago or whenever it happened exactly. The argument I'm making for this to be removed as not being relevant is: when you look at this incident closer it does not appear to have any racist intent, at all, it seemed like a political argument where this dutch journalist said she was unfollowing all Trump supporters to which Simmons replied by basically telling her to go f*** herself..... It seems a bit unfair for someone to be labeled with this sort of thing, especially considering there are no previous offenses of this nature or none since..... Yes, it did happen, so I suppose if there was a consensus that it is to be included, it should at the very least cover his side of the story out of fairness. The actual content of the exchange Raleigh80Z90Faema69 (talk) 17:02, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

The intent doesn't matter, the notable part of this is him being suspended by his team, as well as the team's reasoning. The team considered his actions racially insensitive, and suspended him. The next paragraph includes his side of the story, which was also removed.

For reference, below is the exact text from the Gianni Moscon page that I was referencing. Yes, Moscon HAS gotten in trouble for punching people, but his suspension by Sky was due to a specific incident that that team considered racially motivated.

"Racism and suspension

During the 2017 Tour de Romandie, Moscon racially abused French cyclist Kevin Reza.He was suspended from racing with Team Sky for six weeks. The team indicated that any further behaviour incidents will result in Moscon's contract being terminated."

My reading of the original text of the article is that it's in a very similar tone with a similar set of sources as the Moscon article. Even if there wasn't another cyclist with a similar incident, however, being suspended by your team, and having that suspension covered in the media, is notable, even if unpleasant. ErikTheBikeMan (talk) 20:31, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

That I did not know about Moscon so fair enough and good point on that.... I thought you were referring to the incident in the 2018 TDF.... With the Simmons issue I understand your argument that it happened and was reported in the press and there are plenty of sources to verify it, but I think the primary difference here is, and I don't know for certain because as I said I'm not familiar with the Moscon incident, is that he actually exhibited racist behavior. In the case of Simmons that's pure speculation at best, even if the team thinks it possibly might have been and was playing it safe to protect themselves without particularly caring about the rider at all, which would be typical behavior for a team. It's definitely a bit murkier in this case because it, in reality, seems like he was suspended more for political reasons, out of fear that the "cancel mob" better come and get them so they better do something.... A journalist said she hates a political candidate and a rider said gfy is what happened.

The way it was included in the article makes it look like he was guilty of some racist attack against an innocent journalist which just isn't the case. This journalist said I hate Donald Trump and if you support Donald Trump I'm unfollowing you and Simmons waved at her with a black hand and said 'buh-bye' or something. I don't think it's worthy of being included, but my opinion doesn't matter, obviously, but if it were included it really should include the text of both her tweet and her reply so anyone reading it would know the actual facts of the incident. Raleigh80Z90Faema69 (talk) 22:41, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I was typing that in a hurry while at work and made 2 typos.....

1. 1 out of fear the cancel mob "might" come and get them

1. 2 the text of both her tweet and "his" reply....

so anyone reading it will know what was actually said Raleigh80Z90Faema69 (talk) 22:59, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

As written, the original section did not say anything about Simmons' behavior, but about how the team perceived that behavior and what the consequences of that behavior were. In this case, suspension. The second paragraph once again included the rider's denial. Ultimately, this section is about the suspension, which was covered by independent media. Thus the inclusion of the information about the suspension, which is in line with every other cyclist who's been suspended for various reasons over time. I think the original wording adheres to WP:BLP, the main limitation we should be working within here. ErikTheBikeMan (talk) 22:59, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm not saying you're wrong on this.... All I'm saying it's important that it's clear.

Including what the team perceived makes sense as that obviously is what resulted in the action that was taken, but it's important to be clear because people will draw conclusions about Simmons because of it.

In this case it's kind of simplified because it's not like it was a highly complicated incident that will require 2,000 words to explain. It will be pretty straightforward to explain the entire incident because a journalist said A) the rider replied with B) and the team reacted with C)

The way it was worded previously seemed like this rider made a racist attack against someone which is downright ridiculous considering it was the journalist who was being out of line and irresponsible as they are supposed to be held to a higher standard as independent, neutral, unbiased professionals who only report the facts for people to interpret on their own. Not threaten everyone who doesn't share their political beliefs.

Obviously the rider has to be held accountable for his actions and I'm certain that there are rules regarding how riders are to behave on social media that are very different from a regular person who can just spout off whatever they damn well please to whoever they want.

A rider is a representative of a team and obviously the team has to look out for their own best interests.

Personally I don't think this warrants being on his page because it does not seem like he was flagrantly saying something racist or bigoted in a hateful or deliberate manner that was targeting any particular group. If he was then I wouldn't be defending him I'd be helping attack him.

I think he was telling this journalist to go fuck herself, which is absolutely his 1st Amendment right as an American citizen, even if he's not in America, but different rules apply because he signed a contract to represent a professional cycling team and he has to abide by their rules.

Again, my opinion doesn't matter and if it's within the limitation you describe and should be included in his page then so be it, the guidelines are there for a reason and the rules are the rules. But it should be clear

Ms. Journalist said "A"

Mr. Rider replied "B"

The Team responded "C"

Raleigh80Z90Faema69 (talk) 00:57, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Makes sense to me - section re-added and updated with some additional clarifying language. Please do not remove the section again, but feel free to make edits as needed.

Understand that you personally don't think this is relevant, but including suspension information is in-line with the coverage of other cyclists suspended for a variety of reasons (see Juan Carlos Rojas (cyclist) - this is a stub article but ~50% of the non-results content is about his suspension - or the above-mentioned Gianni Moscon page, where roughly half the content is various controversies).

At the end of the day, he has a first amendment right to not get sanctioned by the United States government for his speech, but sports teams are not the US government (see U.S. national anthem kneeling protests, where, really, there is more of a first amendment case because the President, not a team, was calling for sanctions). ErikTheBikeMan (talk) 14:58, 11 May 2022 (UTC)