Talk:Oslo/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Climate chapter

The table with Oslo climate data is obviously wrong and also Oslo has no subtropical continental climate! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josueballesteros (talk • contribs) 18:29, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, a lot of nonsense there. Started cleaning. --Erik den yngre (talk) 09:43, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Average precipipation days, are days with at least 3 millimeter precipitation. Figures from Met office. --Erik den yngre (talk) 13:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Update

I have extracted data from the Met office deep database, so figures should now be correct. Note that numbers are related to the Blindern observation site and to 1961-1990 only for comparison, 1961-1990 is the standard period in Norway and is used a reference. Specific daily or monthly records are mentioned in the text. Please do not change to other sources or other periods without discussion. --Erik den yngre (talk) 18:53, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

1960 to 1990

Somebody changed to 2005-2014, I reverted to the standard period. Specific new observations (such as records) can be included in text. --Erik den yngre (talk) 09:50, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

I know this is the reference period of Meterlocical Institute of Norway. And i am sorry that i make changes without discuss it before. But i want to discuss, because the climate has really changed in Oslo science that period. You see itself. The average year temperature have risen from 5,6 to 7,1 degrees, it is a lot!!. A normal day of july is now 22-26 degrees istead of 20-24. In the winter we have -1 to -3 rather than -3 to -5. The 1961-1990 is outdated and gives not the correct picture of the today climate of Oslo. You also se that many cities in Europe and North America, use the latest period of 1981-2010 as reference on climate. I also for tourist that read this article and get an impression that Oslo is colder than in real life and mybe less attractive to visit for foregin tourists. --Sondre1000 (talk) 10:05, 2 May 2015(UTC)
Wikipedia is not touristinfo, Wikivoyage takes a tourist perspective. Perhaps the climate has changed, or perhaps 10 years is too short a period to draw conclusions, there is reason that the Met office use 30 years as standard period. In any case, as editors of WP we can not make inferences, we can only quote information from sources. And we can not choose a period according to our own liking. If reports from the climate experts at the Met office state there has been a climate change in Oslo, this can or should be mentioned in the text. --Erik den yngre (talk) 10:52, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Picasso's Regjeringskvartalet murals

The article on Picasso's Regjeringskvartalet murals states that a ruling on the fate of the murals was expected in early 2014. I have been unable to find recent references to their fate, and I assume any would be in Norwegian. Does anyone have any more news on them? Gareth E Kegg (talk) 07:54, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Pronounciation - source?

What is the source for Norwegian pronounciation? Not clear fact. --Erik den yngre (talk) 09:27, 16 August 2015 (UTC).

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the map that shows oslo within oslo is wrong

that map shows 2 counties: oslo and akershus. those are separate counties. oslo is a very small county but, it should not be shown as a part of akerhus. the best would be to find a map of the county of oslo.84.213.45.196 (talk) 00:38, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Indeed. The map could be OK if the image text reads "Oslo surrounded by Akershus county", but the caption is automated so it is difficult to change. I dont see an alternative map on Commons. The current map is OK because it shows Oslo in relation to the closest surroundings, but caption should be accurate. --Erik den yngre (talk) 09:23, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Is it possible to override the automatic caption? That would seem the best option. It's easy to change "Oslo" to "other municipalities in Akershus", but I don't see it's possible to change "within" to "surrounded by". Martinevans123 (talk) 09:36, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
If you change county (in infobox) to "Akershus" then the caption will be changed too, but then the infobox will show Oslo as a municipality within Akershus county. I added "map caption", that seems to override the automated caption in "infobox kommune". --Erik den yngre (talk) 15:03, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Many thanks, Erik. That's useful to know. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:43, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Timeline of Oslo

What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 17:37, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Demographics

The demographics section mostly covers minorities and religion, this is relevant but somewhat out of proportion. There is a special article on East End and West End of Oslo that covers some of these issues. Historical development of the city, very important in Oslo because of the city's rapid expansion after 1850, is barely mentioned. --— Erik Jr. 07:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

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Crime

Claim that Oslo has four times the crime rate of NY is based on a newpaper report, and possibly confuses safety and petty crime. --— Erik Jr. 23:01, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

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Reference to Ibsen plays

It is confusing for this article to name plays that Ibsen wrote as Ibsen wrote many of his plays while he was living outside Norway. Vorbee (talk) 16:47, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Food

I removed these unsourced claims written in a subjective/touristguide style

  • Coffee: Norwegians get through 7.2 kilograms of coffee per person per year - making them the world's biggest coffee consumers after Finland. Oslo is internationally renowned for being one of the best cities in the world to drink high quality coffee, the epicentre being the coffee shop and roasthouse of world barista champion Tim Wendelboe. Coffe house chains Kaffebrenneriet and Stockfleths serve quality brew from many locations throughout the city.
  • Vippa is a streetfood market run mostly by immigrants and asylum seekers at the old boat stop at Vippetangen.
  • Oslo has a huge and varied restaurant scene, and although it is possible to find relatively cheap meals, prices in general are quite high. This is especially true for alcohol. Lower-price alternatives are concentrated in the borough of.

--— Erik Jr. 23:34, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Population

The population of Oslos urban area is around 900.000, not 600.000. The metropolitan area has a higher population than the urban area — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.215.137.197 (talk) 23:25, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Improbable – those figures have been deleted before as they were completely unfounded and/or original research. Please, provide a reliable source for that claim. The figures presented are backed by Norway's official Statistics bureau. While they are merely estimates, they do not seem to be too far off and are ceratinly most credible as they're based on demographics records, list of registered households and immigration registration. ProKro (talk) 23:56, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
These figures are totally wrong - or if not, they're old, the figures there a while back were much more correct. 2A02:FE0:C011:AC60:B5C7:46CE:E47F:CCCF (talk) 04:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
In the "Demographics" section there is a distinction between the "city proper" (628,719), the municipality (647,676) and metro area (942,084). The municipality is an administrative division and clearly defined, while the two other concepts "urban" and "metro" are not. Statistics Norway says that as of 2014 there are 628 997 persons in "densely populated areas" within Oslo municipality, while "urban settlements" (Oslo with suburbs in next door municipalities) there are 942 084. So I think the confusing terms are "urban" and "metro". What Statistics Norway call "urban" is the same as "metro" in WP. --— Erik Jr. 07:52, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
The figures are too low. Metropolitan area should be = Oslo-regionen, should it not? The difference between 'city proper' and 'municipality' is due to a handfull of people living in Nordmarka. The city obviously has more people than the municipality, as there is continuous city into Bærum, Lørenskog, etc.Eskil S (talk) 14:39, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
@Eskil S: That's all well and good, and the population might as well be over 1.5 million; but the problem here lies in defining what exactly falls under Oslo's metropolitan area, as it is never clearly defined. Aside from "densely populated areas around the city of Oslo", there is hardly anything to go by. For the population of the metro to be that high, the nearby Akershus county would have to be included; and yet it isn't, in the latest population figures that is. It is regraded as a separate entity altogether, as expected. Had the figures of Oslo and Akershus been added up, the figures would be well over 1.2m alone, which is considerably higher than the 940 thousand given. Not to mention that the land area of the metro would be substantially larger as well, as the Akershus county alone is almost 2000 sq miles. As Erik den yngre said, only the meaning and expanse of the municipality are clearly defined, but nothing beyond that. "Greater Oslo Region" seems to refer to a loosely defined, densely populated cultural region and its mercantile aspects and potential within Eastern Norway region or "landsdeler", rather than a strictly defined and regulated area for which there is credible data. And so, Tettstedet Oslo (Bærum, Asker, Skedsmo, etc.) is taken to be the city's immediate metropolitan area, which does not take into account the better parts of Akershus (land-wise) and Buskerud (population-wise) counties or the town of Moss in Østfold county. ProKro (talk) 19:57, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Statistics Norway (the Census Bureau) defines "tettsted" (urban settlement) and finds 925,000 people i (by 2013) in the urban settlement centered on Oslo. Latest figures http://www.ssb.no/befolkning/statistikker/beftett/aar/2015-12-11 --— Erik Jr. 01:04, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Stortingsmelding 31 (2002-2003) is about "storbyregioner" in Norway. https://www.regjeringen.no/no/dokumenter/stmeld-nr-31-2002-2003-/id402979/?q=storbymelding&ch=1#match_0 Wikipedia's article on Metropolitan areas matches this definition of "storbyregion". The Parliamentary document lists 46 kommuner in Norway as part of this metropolitan. These communities now have 1.5 million inhabitants. Saying that Akershus is 'not included' and that it is totally separate is obviously not right, since urban population number must include places like Bærum and Lørenskog. Each of the towns in Akershus of course have their own statistics, but at the same time they are part of the larger Metropolitan area. Eskil S (talk) 07:59, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
@Eskil S: I see, great find. Are there perhaps more recent figures; better yet, some that can shed some light on the metropolitan area? I will fix the ref. ProKro (talk) 19:00, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

@ProKro: This analyses by the SSB https://www.ssb.no/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/befolkningsvekst-rundt-oslo includes settlements within 100 km from Oslo, and finds 1,700,000 persons by January 1, 2010 https://www.ssb.no/a/samfunnsspeilet/utg/201005/02/tab-2010-12-06-01.html This report from NIBR tries to identify Oslo "storbyregion" (metropolitan area) by number of commuters, this seems to include places such as Nord-Odal that are far into the country side.. I can't find a clear answer to the question of population in "metropolitan" Oslo. --— Erik Jr. 17:04, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@Erik den yngre: I see, interesting. Precisely what you said, which is exactly the crux of the whole conundrum! As far as we know, this may be the ever elusive Oslo metro, given the fact that its boundaries are never clearly defined. As I see it, no reason to not include these figures; they are fairly recent. My Norwegian is a bit rusty, but what I make out is that there's even the distinction between foreign-born population and native, which is even better, as opposed to all those that give a single figure. Now if there only were some figures for the size of the area... to save us from adding up all the towns', counties' and municipalities' individual figures. ProKro (talk) 17:22, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
EDIT: Recently, I came across a leaflet about Oslo, which said that the entire Eastern Norway pretty much gravitates towards Oslo, as its region. Given that that region is more than twice the size of, say, Netherlands I thought that was kinda bonkers and not really a universally accepted definition of a metro. ProKro (talk) 17:27, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
It seems that SSB (Statistics Norway) does not define "metropolitan" precisely, only "urban" ("tettsted" or "dense urban settlement"), so I think the most reliable number is from St.meld. nr. 31 (2002-2003), but still not reliable to put in infobox, instead perhaps insert in text body with a clear explanation of how this figure is calculated (perhaps along with 1,7 million calculated by SSB according to commuting numbers). — Erik Jr. 18:03, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
Greater Oslo Region is loosely defined as 67 municipalities around Oslo, a total area of 21.400 km², same as Slovenia or Macedonia, or twice the area of Kosovo. --— Erik Jr. 18:11, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
Small note on references. I see that ProKro use "Regjeringen2010" as reference, but the source is actually SSB (Statistics Norway), a government agency. "Regjeringen" in Norwegian is the cabinet of ministers including their ministries. --— Erik Jr. 18:17, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Statistics Norway use the definitions of "Major city regions" for Metropolitan areas. There exist a wider definition for the Oslo area, which was used in the Storbymeldingen report from 2003 and includes the areas around Drammen and Moss. Statistics Norway also used this definition for a couple of years around 2005, but later changed back to the previous definition, excluding Drammen and Moss (they are nowadays listed as separate areas). I wrote to Statistics Norway a couple of years ago and asked why they did this, and the answer was that they nowadays have adjusted their definitions of "Major city regions" to better fit Eurostat's definitions of Larger urban zones.--Pjred (talk) 20:36, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Metro-area is more like travel to work, and wider economic area. Wikipedia NO's article on Oslo-regionen is probably a good measure. 1.4 - 1.5 m. This is not scientific, however, but neither are most metro numbers you see on Wikipedia.

Urban-area is the built-up contiguous area. This ignores artificial boundaries such as Lysaker-elva. 'Tettsted' is probably a good measure. Uncontroversial.

City proper is 'kommune', municipality. Uncontroversial

It is the metro-area that is hard to define. 138.40.68.144 (talk) 14:30, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, but because this is a standard item in the infobox, it should conform as close as possible to what this means in WP context. --— Erik Jr. 23:15, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_urban_zone This has Oslo in it, worth having a look. 95.148.26.23 (talk) 12:25, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
In the "Demographics" section there is a distinction between the "city proper" (628,719), the municipality (647,676) and metro area (942,084).--AlfaRocket (talk) 18:47, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Re "what this means in WP context": could this meaning vary across the different language-versions of Wikipedia? If so, it could be quite confusing to anyone who compares the English-language version and the Scandinavian-languages versions of this article. Acwilson9 (talk) 03:35, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Question /slash suggestion (about / for ... the first half of a certain sentence)

Background

A recent edit to this article, modified the first "half" of a sentence, which now reads [this is the first half]: << "The urban municipality (bykommune) of Oslo and county [fylke] of Oslo are two parts of the same entity, [...]" >>.

Question

Is it the intent that the meaning of the words << "are two parts of the same entity" >>, there, should be [that the city and the county] (the "bykommune" and the "fylke") "have the same geographical boundaries"? (like, boundaries that could be shown on a map) -- ? --

Suggestion

If so, then IMHO it might be better (more clear) (easier "for some" to understand) if we were to change the wording there, to [something more like] "cover the same geographical area" or "have the same geographical boundaries".

YMMV.

(Any comments?) --Mike Schwartz (talk) 22:16, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps. Norway has two administrative levels: Kommune (municipality) and fylke (county). Oslo is the only one where these levels or functions have been merged, so the City Council or city government takes care of both, so it is the same organization, not only the same borders. — Erik Jr. 13:32, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

WHY was city of Christiana renamed back to Oslo, in 1925 (or 1924)?

A sentence about this should be added to the "1900–present" subsection. (I myself don't know this history. I cannot really read any Scandinavian languages, but it appears to me that neither of the two Norwegian-language versions, nor the Danish version, of the "Oslo" wiki-article illuminate this question. The analogous French- and Spanish-language "Oslo" versions do not illuminate this, either; in fact, the Spanish version gives the date as 1924 instead of 1925.) Acwilson9 (talk) 03:44, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Kristiania was a name imposed by the Christian 4, king of Denmark, and Norway wanted to remove danish names that still dominated. Hoper it is clear. Strictly speaking the it was not renamed «back» to Oslo. Oslo was a different town/suburb (part of Aker municipality that surrounded Kristiania) that during the rapid expansion of Kristiania during the 1800s had been included and by 1924/25 was a suburb within the city borders. Hope this is clear now. --— Erik Jr. 13:26, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

A changed to the intro in line with facts:

  • Oslo (the area now known as Gamlebyen) was destroyed by fire in 1624
  • A new city, Christiania, was built "behind" Akershus fortress after the fire, a few kilometers west of old Oslo
  • The village of Oslo continued to exist in its original location and became a suburb of Christiania, the poorest one in fact
  • During the Christiania's rapid expansion from around 1850 the parliament in 1859 decided to expand Christiania (Kristiania) to include parts of Aker municipality notably Grünerløkka and Oslo (i.e., Gamlebyen).
  • Due to patriotism in the early 1900s "Kristiania" was regarded as inappropriate because of its relation to Danish rule, and the name Oslo was adopted instead (even if many found the name "Oslo" ugly and strange to name the capital after a poor and run-down suburb).

It is common misunderstanding that the "original" name was "restored". — Erik Jr. 15:36, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Most expensive cities lists

The information about Oslo being among the top ten most expensive cities to live in is a bit outdated; it cites a number of studies from 2006 to 2015, but looking at the 2019 Mercer and EIU reports, Oslo does not appear very high on either list. I don't know the exact EIR ranking since I didn't purchase the full report, but it's not among the top ten, and it appears at position 61 on the Mercer list (in 2018 it was at no 47). Any objections to updating this info – are there any factors I haven't taken into account? --bonadea contributions talk 13:03, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

I doubt this is very reliable information as it depends on exchange rates. The Norwegian krone is now "weak" so Oslo is less expensive for visitors. --— Erik Jr. 14:54, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
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