Talk:Orthopathy

Removal of bad edits

Dchmelik I know you created this article, and you appear to have some kind of conflict of interest with the subject but your edits contain poor spelling, original research and outright falsehoods. For example you added to the lead "Natural hygienists historically oppose drugs/immunization (but some modern ones changed their mind,)", how do you know some "modern ones" changed their mind? That is not found in the sourcing. The Quackwatch website does not claim that some changed their mind.

[1], this is also a bad edit. "Various twenty-first century orthopaths (including doctors of Osteopathy & Medicine & Philosophy in the American Natural Hygiene Society) dropped the idea of food combining, suggest get vaccinated, and carry out fasting studies. Some switched back from the term Natural Hygiene to Nature Cure." Entirely unsourced.

Adding the categories "Dietetics", "Therapeutic food" etc is also clearly incorrect. This edit [2] contains original research and spelling mistakes "Twnty-first century Various 21st century orthopaths dropped the idea of food combining, suggest get vaccinated, and carry out fasting studies." Psychologist Guy (talk) 18:43, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

I have also raised concerns over at the list of orthopaths article talk-page as you were adding unsourced content that Dean Ornish etc are orthopaths which is clearly incorrect. Psychologist Guy (talk) 18:51, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Dchmelik, on the article in one of your recent edits you also wrote "Chiropractic/PhD doctor Herbert M. Shelton". He may have received a Doctorate from the American School of Naturopathy but this is not a real Doctorate. See Diploma mill. Psychologist Guy (talk) 18:58, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

My edits contain no original research nor falsehoods, and I have no conflict of interest (you and many empiricist (unreliable) science editors appear to) and corrected all my grammar mistakes, but "you're one to talk" as messed up article into mix of its original British English but also American English formatting! I've been on Wikipedia about a decade longer than you, but you must realize/learn different English dialects are used and each article is officially set in its creator's dialect (and no one cares about (typographical) errors that have already been fixed; talking down to people about that is irrelevant/impolite (everyone makes & corrects mistakes) as is indenting your own talk sections: indentation is for each new commenter.) Herbert M Shelton was doctor of Naturopathy & Natural Therapeutics (likely from First National University) & Chiropractic & Nursing Science but his PhD may have been something else. Other editors cited/refrenced (mostly on this talk page, some in article) several doctors (including MDs, DOs, PhDs) but you archived them before process finished. Most those doctors--and National Health Association in general--updated Nature_Cure/Natural_Hygiene (NC/H) ways I described (cooking some food and quit most/all food combining) and there's a forthcoming book (with partial drafts available) What Dr Shelton Didn't Know that even a formerly-fundamentalist orthopath (taught by ones Dr Shelton taught) describes the germ theory of disease is true (so vaccination is necessary, as stated some/many doctors in Health Science magazine in their own texts & videos. Not all Wikipedia articles have everything (completely) sourced but people should make honest effort (assume good faith) to check/look (to complete.) The truth of NH/C, including modern updates) is basically common knowledge among some order of thousands to millions (and increasing) who focus on healthy plant-based/vegetarian/vegan lifestyle (NC/H is much more than diet.)--dchmelik (t|c) 22:28, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

When we edit articles we need reliable sources. I have already pointed out that you have been adding original research (inserting personal opinion and unsourced content onto articles) which is violation of multiple Wikipedia policies. Health Science magazine is not a reliable source for Wikipedia but you keep mentioning it. Herbert Shelton did not have PhD, he was a quack with a fake degree (naturopaths are not medical doctors) so you are inserting false information onto the article. Everything else you are saying is your own opinion and not sourced to anything reliable. "The truth of NH/C, including modern updates) is basically common knowledge among some order of thousands to millions", you clearly have a conflict of interest here as you are talking about "truth" of natural hygiene. I understand you are interested in this topic and you want to promote or update it but you can only do that with independent reliable sources. You are also now linking to a webmd article on plant-based diets that has nothing to do with orthopathy. So far you have not added or suggested a single reliable source. Do you acknowledge the problem with your editing? Psychologist Guy (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

The National Health Association is real scientists including MDs, ODs, PhDs; their Health Science magazine is very reliable (much more than most/all editors critical/biased on the subject.) I write truths that have sources and sometimes finish citations later; people can do that or say citation needed. The WebMD article (linked on talk page when talking about statistics, so what) has everything to do with NH/C (MD/professor who advocates healthy vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, fasting, and organizes conferences with the NHA.) I write truths but the critics delete them and add unreliable/false information/sources due to limited/NNPOV about science; if you're not in favour of the truth, you're the one with the conflict of interest (I'm not because I don't work work for a related organization/person.) After '0s Wikipedia became a mess with many people doing the wrong thing; maybe I'll edit some other year or run my own wiki.--dchmelik (t|c) 14:44, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

You have not written any "truths", you write personal opinion and unsourced commentary, this is not what this website is about as content must be well sourced here. You also leave terrible spelling mistakes all over the article and mess up the categories. You have added various false unsourced information to the Herbert Shelton article and this one that I corrected. You have not added any reliable sources. If you continue to make these kind of bad edits (adding original research or primary sources) I will report your account at the Administrators' noticeboard. I have already raised concern about your edits at WP:FTN. Please read WP:FRINGE, WP:NPOV and WP:OR. Psychologist Guy (talk) 23:24, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

You're wrong about me. I don't leave grammar/spelling mistakes: I correct them (but haven't seen you do so in some your own bad edits). I read those decade before you were even on Wikipedia, and primary sources are in fact sometimes used: (re)read 'Use of primary sources in Wikipedia'. American English began as, and always has been, and still is a bad grammar/spelling dialect, so don't alter the article from British English (single quotation marks, full stops (periods) after punctuation, etc.).--dchmelik (t|c) 14:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I don't have time to engage you anymore. You are unfortunately just destroying the article with nonsense [3], this is bad editing. You need to be topic banned, you should not be editing this topic. I have raised concerns about your editing at WP:FTN. The next stop might have to be the ANI board. I take offense to your editing because I have spent a lot of time writing the orthopathy and related articles with reliable sources but you are ruining them by adding unreliable content and primary sources. It's clear you do not understand Wikipedia policy and you are not making any effort to read the rules. Psychologist Guy (talk) 18:09, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

References

reinstatement of good edits

A few times Psychologist Guy removed then reinstated material I added (American Natural Hygiene Society (ANHS) here and on related Herbert M. Shelton's page, which one case had typographical/recollection errors he corrected for founding date and renaming to National Health Association date, and one was the fact of Jay Dinshah being an ANHS executive). The current lede/lead section second paragraph states (from a source I didn't add nor would) Natural Hygiene's measures are lifestyle, so let's not have 'Category:lifestyle' removed again, unless that source is wrong: then remove both (and consider the source may be wrong on other aspects and may need removed from criticism section, which should be a reception section)!--dchmelik (t|c) 21:28, 13 August 2022 (UTC)