Talk:Orphan Black/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

BBC America/Bell Media as producers

Is Orphan Black not produced by BBC America (and Bell Media)? Just think it should be made clear before removing again. -- Wikipedical (talk) 23:38, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

The end credits list "Produced and developed in association with Bell Media." BBC America Original Productions is a logo at the end of the credits, but it isn't given any production mention in the actual credits. Note, this is the Canada broadcast credits, it is possible, though incredibly unlikely, that the US credits are different but I would find that odd if it was as the credits are what are officially logged for a film/production. Canterbury Tail talk 01:12, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Also IMDB (not always considered reliable) list just Temple Street Productions as the production company, BBC America as distributors which they would be as they paid to distribute it in the US. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that they had a real hand in actually producing the show itself and even BBC America's aquirement announcement (see reference #5), states "The series is brought to BBCA by independent producer, Temple Street Productions". Canterbury Tail talk 01:15, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

One more time, SOURCE The Peabody Award winning series is produced by Temple Street Productions in association with BBC AMERICA and Bell Media. Its a joint British- Canadian show. As for the credits, that is a national broadcasting issue, each region displays the credits accordingly, for example in Europe BBC America is listed primarily as the producver followed by Temple Street. Twobells (talk) 12:19, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

"One more time," Orphan Black is produced by Temple Street---a Canadian company. Its association with BBC America is purely financial: BBC America has neither creative input nor control. With regard to the cultural origins of a television production, the financiers are not as relevant as the producers. BBC America does not produce Orphan Black, Temple Street does. The writers, directors, actors and producers are all Canadian. The sets: Canadian. The on-set employees: Canadian. The extras: Canadian. Everyone involved with the creation of this show: Canadian. No amount of "sophistry" will convert Orphan Black into something other than a Canadian show that other countries have financed, purchased, and aired. Eunomiac (talk) 07:19, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

BBC America Owned

The show is BBC America owned, (see here) any country, network, streaming service or station has to obtain a content licencing agreement worldwide from BBC America, not from Space or Temple Productions. If you check any tv or film wiki article the show is always listed by the country who financed it, I suggest that at the very least that the lede states 'BBC America-Space' co-production allowing visitors to mouse to the networks concerned which shows their country of origin as stating that it is purely a 'Canadian' show is factually incorrect. Here are two examples of joint co-productions on WIkipedia. Stargate Atlantis Primeval_New_World Twobells (talk) 21:51, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Calling it British is false, there's no evidence of that. It would have to be produced by BBC to be that. I copyedited the lead a bit, as "...is a BBC America-Space science fiction television series" is a bit odd wording as it should read the nationality/country of origin there. I simply rewrote it to, "The series is produced by Temple Street Productions in association with BBC America and Bell Media's Space." which is exactly how the press release states it. Regarding the content licencing agreement, that's because it's distributed internationally by BBC Worldwide North America (also from press release you linked); distribution is different than producing or financing. Drovethrughosts (talk) 22:30, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

It IS produced by the BBC using the US off-shoot BBC America which is a commercial arm of the BRITISH BBC, every trade publication calls it a 'BBC America production', they paid for the show so it is theirs. When you buy something who does it belong to? The person who paid for it of course. Temple Street productions is listed as the company that co-produced it but they SOLD it to BBC America who paid for it.Twobells (talk) 12:48, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

The credits for the show don't bear that out. BBC Worldwide North America only has the distribution rights, this has nothing to do with owning the show. This does not make it a BBC America show, especially when BBC America themselves have stated that they buy it from Temple Street and don't make it themselves. Additionally financing has nothing to do with the nationality of a show or movie, a lot of movie financing comes from Germany due to tax regulations for investment but you never see the latest Hollywood blockbuster being labelled a German film. Shows, like movies, are nationality based on their production company. Whoever makes the show is the nationality, not who owns distribution rights. Incidentally the article quoted only covers the US as you can happily stream the show in many other countries, Canada, UK, other European countries which have nothing to do with Amazon Prime Instant Video, a US only service. Again BBC North America is solely a distributor, which has nothing to do with ownership. Canterbury Tail talk 22:58, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

What do you mean 'only distribution rights'? BBC America PAID for the show through the BBC, they financed it entirely and certainly not to raise money via taxation which would be against the BBC's national, international and commercial arm charter, the reality is that in this case the show is a BBC-America financed Canadian co-production and no amount of suspect sophistry will change that. Twobells (talk) 12:48, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Correction: Orphan Black is a BBC-America financed 'Canadian production'---and no amount of suspect sophistry will change that. If you cannot understand this distinction, then it is no surprise to me why you find it so strange that this show is described, in cultural---not financial---terms as "Canadian". Eunomiac (talk) 07:27, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Probably best to keep this discussion in one spot, as now there's currently three different sections discussing the same issue. I think you mean every American trade publication, if you look at Canadian websites, they refer it as "Space's Orphan Black" or Temple Street Productions. The series is produced by Temple Street in association with BBC America and Bell Media (the exact press release wording). Obviously that means Temple Street is the primary producer. The press release states, "BBC Worldwide distributes the series internationally." Says nothing regarding producing or financing. If you want to add BBC America and Bell Media as producers to the infobox, sure; even if you want to call it American-Canadian, sure... But calling it British is false, because it's not; it's co-produced by BBC America (not BBC). Simple as that. Find a source that explicitly states Orphan Black is a British series or that BBC America completely fiances the series. From an earlier comment I made, I found a British source that refers to the series as a "US import". Here's a great (American publication) source detailing its development. For one, the article refers to it a Canadian series. Bell Media was the company that greenlighted the series, BBC America stepped in several weeks later for U.S. broadcasting rights. How does that make it a British series in anyway I ask? Its country of origin is solely Canada because it was developed and created by Canadians from a Canadian production company that was greenlighted for production by a Canadian broadcaster. I feel the wording in the lead, "The series is produced by Temple Street Productions in association with BBC America and Bell Media's Space" is suffice enough regarding this issue. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:15, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

The University of Alberta finally confirmed the facts, OB is entirely financed by the British-owned BBC America and Space only jumped on board once financing was found; "It was only after BBC America, in search of original programming, agreed to an acquisition agreement that Orphan Black was able to find its way home. Once BBC Worldwide (the commercial arm of the British public service broadcaster) guaranteed financing and international distribution, Space’s parent company Bell Media moved quickly to purchase the series.5 (from BBC Worldwide) Orphan Black eventually debuted in March 2013 with 513,000 viewers, making it the highest-rated original series premiere for Space.6 Its simultaneous launch on BBC America garnered 680,000 viewers.7" http://www.mediaindustriesjournal.org/index.php/mij/article/view/106/151. For anyone who is interested BBC_Worldwide is British and in fact according to many other wiki tv production articles you could say that OB is entirely British as editors here have argued on many an occasion that production location has nothing to do with ownership but for the sake of neutrality I have edited the lede to read 'British-Canadian'. Also, for anyone interested in international tv productions 57% of ALL Canadian tv production are financed by the UK. Twobells^t@lk 09:01, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

I read the source, and I see phrases such as "the Canadian series Orphan Black", "Although Orphan Black is not 'British'", and "The series is not a treaty coproduction (it is completely written and produced in Toronto), nor does it fall under the very productive category that Michele Hilmes identifies as transnational coproduction, where 'national interests must be combined and reconciled'." Yeah, we know, it's co-funded by BBC America. How does that make it British. Please stop pushing your Brit POV. (New) Doctor Who was partially co-founded by CBC, but you sure would not argue that it's "British-Canadian". Orphan Black is not "British-Canadian", if anything, it's "Canadian-American". The production company is Temple Street Productions, a Canadian company. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:18, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Funding is irrelevant. For decades most movie funding came from German investors due to taxation laws, but few movies are German. The nationality of a TV show or Movie is recognised as being the nationality of the production company that actually makes it, not who funds it or greenlights it, but who actually makes it. Note this isn't who stars in it, where it is filmed, who wrote it etc, but who actually makes the show. In this case the show is made solely by Temple Street Productions, a Canadian company. No one else is involved in the production of the show. Canterbury Tail talk 14:40, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Setting?

Does the programme ever say where it's taking place?
It mentions real Toronto neighbourhoods: Parkdale, the Junction, Scarborough (Scarberia). A Toronto area code is seen (647).
But the frequent shots of the downtown skyline carefully avoid the CN Tower.
And the police dept. has "precincts" and "lootenants", so it isn't Toronto.
142.204.141.222 (talk) 21:53, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

"Anycity, North America" Encmetalhead (talk) 22:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Pearson has appeared on airplane tickets, Ontario license plates (though in Season 2 the province markers are removed), Canada Post vans in the background etc. However in the final episode we have people in uniforms clearly labelled as US Army wandering around in and around the city so it seems that it's meant to be the US, but unless a reliable source comes up it's original research though that's the strongest suggestion we've gotten yet. Canterbury Tail talk 23:40, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't have a source, but I distinctly recall "Anycity, North America" coming from the mouths of the producers---I also recall "Generica" being mentioned. In Season One, the setting was clearly Toronto, Ontario, Canada: Ticket stubs specifically mention Pearson Airport; cars sported Ontario license plates; and Canadian bills were clearly used (e.g. the large cash withdrawal made by Sarah from Beth's bank account). Since then, they've been very careful to avoid showing anything that would suggest a specific country setting---cash has been carefully occluded from the viewer in many scenes, which is quite telling considering how immediately distinguishable American, Canadian and European bills are from each other. Eunomiac (talk) 07:35, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Reception sections

All three sub-sections dealing with critical reception to the show need to be expanded. Orphan Black has received so much critical acclaim and that needs to be shown. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 19:16, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

If you think the sections need to be expanded, then why not do it yourself. Drovethrughosts (talk) 19:49, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Cast table

FWIW, I copied this out of Draft:Orphan. It was created by 83.36.213.85. wbm1058 (talk) 14:30, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Main cast

Character	Season 1										Season 2										Season 3										Season 4										Total
	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37	38	39	40
Sarah Manning																																									40
Elizabeth Childs																																									7
Cosima Niehaus																																									39
Alison Hendrix																																									33

Separate article for awards

The awards table is getting quite lengthy and not so easy to read, so I have started a separate article. When it is complete the table in the original article can be deleted. Kingstoken (talk) 19:44, 2 July 2017 (UTC)