Talk:Neferhotep I

Neferhotep I has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: December 20, 2014. (Reviewed version).

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WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)

Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

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Dr. Sowada contests evidence? Need Ryholt's 2ndary sources.[edit]

Here is contested testimony for Ryholt: 'curory evidence' and 'not labeled.' From Egypt in the Eastern Mediterranean During the Old Kingdom: An Archaeological ... By Karin Sowada — Preceding unsigned comment added by OWiseWun (talk • contribs) 06:55, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I do not have the cited bibliography here, but I checked the article again. We only refer to Ryholt for the sources, and not for his opinions and discussions. So I do not really see the problem or point. bw -- Udimu (talk) 15:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What are the names of his Children?[edit]

The article goes out of the say to say his Children's names are known, but doesn't list them, studying genealogical information is somethings the first thing I want to learn about a person when coming to Wikipedia.

So does anyone have this information?

Done two children are known for sure: Haankhef and Kemi (confusingly they bear the same names as Neferhotep's parents), a third child is likely to be Wahneferhotep. This is listed and explained in the article. Iry-Hor (talk) 14:30, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Haankhef and Kemi[edit]

Why does it state that they are the parents of Neferhotep I? Somebody needs to proof read the second paragraph and make the appropriate changes, because apparently Haankhef was his only son and Kemi was his son's wife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 1deano 1 (talk • contribs) 09:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

do not understand the problem. Haankhef and Kemi are the parents of Neferhotep I. But he also had two children, also called Haankhef and Kemi, evidently named after their grandparents. bw -- Udimu (talk) 21:22, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That info may have been added to answer my question, for which I must say thank you.

Naming one's kids after their parents is a common procedure, I assumed before he only had Daughters since the Throne went to his Brother instead, however maybe Haankhef is the same as Sihator, the latter being a name given to him when made co regent or something like that.

Or, if my theory (Which I came to for completely different reasons) that Neferhotep is the Pharaoh of the Exodus is true, perhaps Haankhef is the 1st born son killed by the 10th plague. Kemi then also becomes likely I feel to be Bithiah, the traditional assumption that the Bithiah mentioned in Chronicles is Moses's Mother doesn't add up to me.

Or maybe your theory is completely wrong and conventional egyptology explains everything very well. Brother to brother succession occur frequently in the history of Ancient Egypt, see for example Djedefre -> Khafre, Sahure->Neferirkare Kakai etc. It is even known that this did not necessarily meant that the son of the pharaoh were dead or that he had no male heir since we have examples (e.g. Djedefre) where the son died after his father during the reign of his uncle. It is not clear under what circumstances this happened, it may have been a personal choice of the ruler. Iry-Hor (talk) 14:33, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

But then the article admits that as of 2014 they have not located the buried body of Neferhotep I; and his brother, not his son, succeeded him. The lack of a dead body could be, because he died in the Red Sea (Exodus 14:1-15:21); and his son may have died in the final plague - the death of the firstborn in the land of Egypt (Exodus 11:1-12:32). User:jack1513 23.124.197.192 (talk) 21:15, 14 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article "admits" that Neferhotep's body has not been found yet; just like the bodies of more than a roughly-estimated 95% of all pharaohs. This, combined with the aforementioned fact that a fraternal succession among pharaohs was far from rare, and that many royal children are likely still unknown, should be enough to invalidate your theory. Even assuming that the Exodus actually occurred, we would have a huge amount of potential Pharaohs of the Exodus fullfilling your requisites, and Neferhotep no being more suitable than many others. Khruner (talk) 21:44, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Neferhotep I/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tim riley (talk • contribs) 12:19, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

General
- Duplicate links: The Manual of Style is quite specific: apart from captions and footnotes, you should have a maximum of two blue-links to any other article: one from the lead and another at the first occurrence in the main text. At present you have multiple links to Karnak, Turin canon, Sobekhotep III, naos, Abydos, Itjtawy, Sobekhotep IV, Sihathor, and Egyptian chronology.
  - Y Karnak is now linked only once, Turin canon is now linked once in the text and once in the infobox, Sobekhotep III is now linked in lead and infobox only, naos is now only linked once in the text, Abydos now linked once in the lead and once in the text, Itjtawy now linked only once, Sobekhotep IV now once in the lead and once in the infobox, Sihathor now once in lead and once in text, Egyptian chronology only once in text. Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Spelling and punctuation: It is not clear whether English or American spelling is intended. At present we have (in the main text, not in quotations) both "honour" and "honor". If English is intended, some corrections, according to the Oxford English Dictionary:
  - Y I will follow your advise on the spelling (so more in line with a British one), which seems more correct to me. Thus I changed honor to honour. Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Archeology – the OED gives only "archaeology" (the spelling used in our WP article, I notice)
  - Y Spelling corrected! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Egyptology – capitalised
  - Y Capital added! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Coregency – hyphenated as co-regency, which you do in the lead but not in the main text. If I am mistaken, and American spelling is the preferred style of the article, then you'll want to adopt consistent US spelling of this word throughout.
  - Y I decided to go for "coregency" since the wikipedia article on the subject has it spelled this way.
    Fine. Tim riley talk 14:52, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Semitic – capitalised in the OED
  - YDone! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:04, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Quotations: See the Manual of Style, and remove the italics from the quotations throughout, beginning with "as instructed by the gods…" in the lead, "officer of a town regiment" etc in the main text
  - Y Done! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:04, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
- Image caption: "Archeological Museum of Bologna" (with no link) here, but in the main text (under Artefacts) "Archaeological Museum of Bologna" (linked)
  - Y Link added (is this what you wanted?) Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Fine. Tim riley talk
- Stela – needs a link
  - Y Done! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Origins
- No citations at all in the first paragraph.
  - Y Two citations added! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Third para – citation lacking for final sentence.
  - Y Citation added (same source as previous sentence)! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Chronology
- 'God's father' and 'King's mother' – double not single quotes wanted
  - Y Done! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Extent of rule
- A possible vindication of this are – singular noun with plural verb.
  - Y Done all plural now. Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Second para – citation lacking for final sentence.
  - Y Ryholt's and Schneider's books added as references (where the reign dates can be found). Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Tomb
- The tomb of Neferhotep I has not been located yet – WP:DATED. Safer to say that as at 2014…
  - Y Good point, date added. Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
References
- Refs 11 and 16 seem to be the same.
  - Y Indeed they are the same, I corrected this! Iry-Hor (talk) 14:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Publishing locations: you sometimes give them (e.g. refs 12, 16, 20, 34 and 49) and sometimes don't. They are not compulsory, but consistency is wanted one way or the other.
  - In progress, will decide what to do tonight. Iry-Hor (talk) 14:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find the missing publishing locations! I will continue looking for them, meanwhile I will keep those that are already written. Iry-Hor (talk) 19:23, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be most surprised if WorldCat didn't oblige. Tim riley talk 21:07, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

These are mostly very minor prose points, and the article is plainly of GA quality; it will be my pleasure to promote it when the few tweaks have been attended to. Tim riley talk 12:19, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to leave the question of publishing locations in your hands. All other quibbles are now dealt with. Very happy to promote this scholarly and enjoyable article.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Tim riley Thank you for your very professional review! Iry-Hor (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It has been a pleasure to review an article of such quality. Please feel free to ping me if you have articles up in the future for GAN, PR or FAC. Tim riley talk 22:16, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Sobekhotep's father[edit]

"Beyond Haankhef, the only other exception to this rule is the father of Sobekhotep II." -- Can't find the father of Sobekhotep II in his article. Maybe another Sobekhotep was meant? I checked the article of Mentuhotep (god's father), the father of Sobekhotep III, but his article doesn't mention him being mentioned in the Turin canon. I know there is disagreement about the numbering of Sobekhoteps... Does anyone know whose father is mentioned in the TC? – Alensha ^talk 09:23, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just checked Gardiner. The only other king whose father is mentioned is the one in column 6, row 15 "[...]re Sobek[...]p, son of Nen?" who seems to be tentatively identified with Khaankhre Sobekhotep. Lone-078 (talk) 21:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Error - Kyan is Associated with Ka-ankh-ra Sobekhotep[edit]

The source given for the claim that Kyan's seals were found with Ka-nefer-re's possessions actually says Kyan's seals were found on jars belonging to Ka-ankh-ra, not Ka-nefer-re. Please correct the error. Cadwallader (talk) 21:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Several months after pointing it out, this error has not yet been corrected. I will correct it myself. Cadwallader (talk)

this is not correct. Seals of Khyan were found together with those of king Kha-nefer-re Sobekhotep (brother of Neferhotep I). Anyway, you need to provide a proper referənce for that claim.Udimu (talk) 05:55, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]