Talk:Manitoba/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Reordering

I have ordered and grouped the sections in a way that seems consistent with a majority of the Province articles. I intend to do the same with the other 9 plus territories unless someone disputes this. Verne Equinox (talk) 00:42, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Recognized languages

The Province of Manitoba recognizes seven indigenous languages (http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/a001-5e.php), which bears mention in a point following "official languages" in the main province information box (similar to how the "recognized regional languages" are listed in the article on Canada.) However, I can't seem to make this happen. Interlaker (talk) 19:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Audio Clip

I find it odd that this is a featured article, apparently has met/exceeded Wikipedia standards, yet the audio clip for the pronunciation of Manitoba has someone almost screaming the word with what sounds like a weird filter on it. Even worse, it's not even being pronounced properly. I clicked to the Talk page hoping there was discussion of this and maybe someone saying they were going to fix it, but was disappointed to see that there was nothing posted about it.

I am not a Wiki editor, this is my first time posting anything on here. Though I am a very loyal visitor. It would be nice, as a person who lived most of my life in Manitoba, if this was corrected. Thank you. :)

172.6.17.78 (talk) 20:09, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Weird. Well that file is from Commons, not here, and I can’t upload a new one right now. Looks like it was uploaded by someone just having some fun. We can at least take it out of the introduction until there’s a better one. Keep your fork, there's pie (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. :) I was looking through the old edits, and back in October 2011 there was a normal audio clip for the pronunciation. I have no idea when it was removed or when this weird one was added (didn't want to get sucked into an hours long search.) I don't know how editing works on here, but if it's possible and makes it easier, you could just add that one back in. :) 172.6.17.78 (talk) 21:05, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Done! Thanks for your help! Keep your fork, there's pie (talk) 21:13, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

3 new provincial natural symbols

Manitoba now has three new natural symbols link found here that includes the fish (walleye), ungulate (plains bison), and grass (big bluestem). I will likely add these categories in but also want people's opinions. Will this be cluttersome now that there are 6 species, or do we create a new section? Thoughts? Krazytea(talk) 17:46, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

For now I have updated List of Canadian provincial and territorial symbols, which in fact is likely the way it should stay. Krazytea(talk) 18:08, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

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Cities in lead

I think this all started when at some point the lead mentioned about half of Manitoba's cities, but not the other half. Regarding this, in my opinion, it is either mention only Winnipeg, or mention all ten, not some POV of what the most important ones are beyond Winnipeg. My preference is only mention Winnipeg in the lead. Aside from the provinces with three or fewer cities, what others mention all cities in their leads? Hwy43 (talk) 02:02, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't see what your talking about unless it's been edited. AntonFMD (talk) 15:23, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

His comment was in reference to the edit he linked to which I had made. Air.light (talk) 01:06, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Lynn Johnston isn't from Manitoba.

She's from Ontario so I don't see her relevance to Winnipeg nor Manitoba.

Anyone else see this? AntonFMD (talk) 15:21, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

@AntonFMD: Johnston's article indicates that she was living in Manitoba when she started For Better or For Worse. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:19, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

I hardly think that's worth it. If I became a famous author, I doubt they'd mention the time I lived in North Dakota. AntonFMD (talk) 05:45, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Meh. if you were living in North Dakota when you wrote your magnum opus, they'd probably mention it. But I'm not too fussed either way. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:16, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

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Official language

I have re-inserted English as the only official language of Manitoba. An editor had used this source, which describes a policy of offering Canada's two official languages in selected parts of the province, to infer that the province was officially bilingual, though English remains the official language in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. See [1]. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:53, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

...even though Manitoba taxpayers pay to have laws translated and printed in both languages, and expect to get services in both languages from the Provincial government, and even though a unilingual traffic ticket was quashed, on Wikipedia, the official language of Manitoba is English. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:08, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
That site refers to English as the official language passingly in the context of welcoming foreigners. It would be confusing to state French is an "official" language when it is not near dominant de facto. It alsp explicitly provides services later on to Francophone Manitobans who are protected and recognized by the government. Legally French affords an official status with English. See Manitoba Act and the info in the reply to you above me.--100.1.73.154 (talk) 05:19, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
@Magnolia677: French is an official language of Manitoba - at the very least, it holds a special honorary status at both provincial and federal levels thereof.--[[User:|Sıgehelmus]] (Talk) ω 17:14, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
French would be less common in Manitoba than English in Quebec, but you can still win a lawsuit if your speeding ticket isn't bilingual. Laws must be published in both languages. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:02, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Interesting, I wonder then if all this and the past edit removed by her is sufficient evidence. I can see how it does seem a bit murky. I would also point out how the Yukon has even less Francophones yet French is official and includes its pronunciation - it is a federal territory and not a province eo ipso, but I digress. I'm going to abide by WP:BOLD and restore my edit if she doesn't speak up soon.--Sıgehelmus (Talk) ω 18:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
@Sigehelmus: Hi there. English is the only official language in Manitoba (and Alberta and Saskatchewan). Please see [2] and [3]. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 02:06, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
The Legislature must pass laws in both English and French, and you must be able to transact business with the Proving in either English or French - but it's not an official language. But we Manitobans are so nice we support French even though it's not official, and even though more people claim German as a mother tongue....there's almost as many who claim Tagalog as French in Manitoba, but that's not an official language either. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:31, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

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An alternative to the current etymology

Reading an article on the Manitoba Historical Society regarding the naming of the province, the Assiniboine first nation had the prime input regarding the naming of the province. Though colloquially the area was regarded as Red River, there is a direct translation (extraction) from the Assiniboine language of the word Minnetoba as "Water Prairie" or "Prairie Lake." From an article on the Manitoba Historical Society website:

The name Manitoba therefore comes into the picture after the delegates left Red River for Ottawa, and the history of its appearance probably runs like this. On 18 April 1870, in a letter to the Reverend N. J. Ritchot, one of three delegates who went to Ottawa to negotiate for the admission of the territory into the Dominion of Canada, Louis Riel wrote as follows: “The name of the country is already written in all hearts, that of Red River.Fancy delights in that of “Manitoba,” but the situation seems to demand that of “North-West.” Friends of the old government [Hudson’s Bay Company] are pleased with that of Assiniboia, but it is not generally liked enough to be kept. Choose of the two names “Manitoba” or of “North-West.”

Note that they chose Manitoba, not North-West.

What prompted this topic of discussion:

Recently on a trip to the border area of Manitoba and Minnesota, it occurred to me that Mani- and Minne- are actually the same word, mni is the Dakota word for water, and is demonstrated that it is the Minne- of Minnesota. After some digging around I located the above, and instead of jumping on the page to edit it, I thought it best to first to submit this for discussion.

Hi Blauschwein, I'm not sure your interpretation is correct - it was certainly used in reference to the settlement called Red River, but the table at the end of the page you cite does not list any etymologies connecting the term to the river called Red River. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:05, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi, back Nikkimaria I just updated my comment to the refer instead directly to the Assiniboia word Minnetoba, lit. 'water prairie,' possibly 'Prairie Lake' or 'Prairie River'. This translation is appended to the bottom of the article, which notes that the Assiniboine were definitive in the choice of name. Anyway, the reason I am posting here is that I feel it needs better editors than me.
Hi Blauschwein, that would seem to be consistent with the etymology currently provided in the article, of Assiniboine for Lake of the Prairie. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:20, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi Nikkimaria I completely agree. Blauschwein (talk) 11:40, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Sandra Birdsell

Re the recent reverts – I was most surprised to discover that Sandra Birdsell wasn't mentioned on this page, and how thin the literature section was. It should, surely, try and be interesting and, so, be more than a list of names and awards; though detail has to be fairly brief. This an example of something I once worked on Liverpool#Literature. Rwood128 (talk) 14:01, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

PS: I do realise that there is a separate "Culture" article, where a fuller discussioon is more appropriate. Sadly that is equally poor. Rwood128 (talk) 14:07, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
The literature section here must be thin, given that this single article is meant to summarize every aspect of the province. As you note more detail is appropriate on the culture subarticle. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:16, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Last paragraph of the lead

I'm proposing to change the last paragraph of the lead of this article. A sentence or two outlining Winnipeg as the capital city of the province and the influence it exerts is enough. The current paragraph lists specific cultural events and infrastructure in Winnipeg, without mentioning any other cities, cultural events, or infrastructure in the province. For example, why mention CFB Winnipeg in the lead and not CFB Shilo? Why mention Festival du Voyageur in the lead but not the Manitoba Thresherman's Reunion at the Manitoba Agricultural Museum in Austin? Winnipeg is not Manitoba, but the current language is weighted heavily on Winnipeg. So, I'm proposing a new paragraph, with generalizations made instead of listing specific events and infrastructure. It emphasizes the power and influence that Winnipeg obviously exerts in Manitoba, but also mentions that there are five other cities in Manitoba along with Winnipeg.

Here is my proposal:

"Manitoba's capital and largest city is Winnipeg, the seventh most populous municipality in Canada. The Winnipeg Metropolitan Region is the dominant centre of government, higher education, commerce, culture, and sports in Manitoba, as it is home to more than 55% of the total provincial population. Other cities in the province include Brandon, Steinbach, Thompson, Portage la Prairie, and Winkler."

Let me know what you think

Manitopeg (talk) 08:18, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't agree we need to mention the smaller cities in the lead. Suggest replacing the first two sentences of the existing para with your proposed, but keeping the mention of transport and military which is omitted from the proposal. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:29, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Inclusion of HDI and ranking

Unsure why this is excluded or the persistence of one editor in keeping it from the page when all other provincial pages have it included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.157.31.10 (talk) 23:03, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

What leads you to believe that this factoid merits inclusion? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:13, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

First paragraph: “genitalia” really? For population statistic??

First paragraph: “genitalia” really? For population statistic?? 2603:6011:2D20:14CC:F0D2:DF3E:5215:23C6 (talk) 19:29, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Transportation section

@Nikkimaria With respect, I hope you'll reconsider the reversion. My expansion of the Transportation section made it consistent with other Canadian provinces and US states. For example, see Alberta#Transportation, Ontario#Transportation, and British Columbia#Transportation. Separate articles tends to be significantly more detailed, like Transportation in Saskatchewan. The Transportation section would still be much smaller than the Culture section, despite the existence of a separate Culture of Manitoba article. Are we not to talk about roads? QuincyMorgan (talk) 13:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

We can talk about roads, if there is more up-to-date sourcing available to support it. But the extended details about roads, the rail diagram, etc, would be better spun off to a subarticle, where this content can be expanded further. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Government type

Hi @Nikkimaria:, since the provincial and territorial infobox should be consistent, I've raised this issue on the Canadian discussion board, rather than having a discussion on a single article Talk page. Please come to discuss there, so we can reach a consensus for all provinces and territories. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 23:21, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mr Serjeant Buzfuz and GoodDay, since consensus has not been achieved for your position at this point, please do not continue to implement this proposed change. 23:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
Getting tired of your dismissive attitude at this particular page. You don't own this page, so stop acting like you do with your continued reverts. Make your argument at WP:CANADA, or from here on you actions will be viewed as disruptive. GoodDay (talk) 23:36, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
GoodDay, you're the one being disruptive here: you've started an RfC, are trying to implement your proposed change before it's even run a day, and yet you still haven't come up with a reason why your proposed addition is an improvement. Leave the status quo alone. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
GO TO THE RFC, PLEASE. Manitoba isn't the only province in Canada. Must you always be the logjam? GoodDay (talk) 23:42, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
GoodDay, when you persist in making edits not only without consensus but also without even having a reason your edits are better, yes. Please self-revert to the status quo so that the RfC can run its course. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
Go to the RFC & make your argument there. GoodDay (talk) 23:45, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
GoodDay, if you're not willing to follow the RfC process properly, there's no point having an RfC. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

@Mr Serjeant Buzfuz:, @Peter Ormond: & @Hwy43:, perhaps you can explain why Manitoba should be different from the other provinces, concerning this topic. GoodDay (talk) 23:55, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

GoodDay, that's what the RfC is to discuss, which is why you need to undo your out-of-process changes to allow that discussion to take place. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:58, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
Nikkimaria, please do not accuse GoodDay of doing something that he hasn't done. I looked around, on the Canada notice board and on this Talk page, and didn't find any discussion on this issue, so I went ahead and made the changes to all 13 pages, for the reasons I gave at the Canada notice board. Please join us there to express your reasons why the type of government should not be included in the infobox. I think that it is an issue that affects all 13 pages, so that is the best place to discuss it. Hope to see you there. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 00:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, I'm afraid that GoodDay has indeed reinstated these disputed changes while the RfC is ongoing - see this article's edit history. As per WP:STATUSQUO the pre-dispute version should remain in place while the RfC is ongoing. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:32, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
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