Talk:List of state routes in New York/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Old comments

This is a bizarre list. From Routes 1 through 33, just about every single route is listed, no matter how obscure. For higher route numbers, the coverage is very spotty, and even misses some important routes. We should either limit this list to relatively long and/or important routes (probably preferable), or give a complete listing, not just the lower numbers. -- Ithacagorges 03:04 6 July 2005 (UTC)

This is a list under development, please feel free to help build it. --Censorwolf 14:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I believe that every route in NYS is now listed, which would make the incomplete list template on the main page unnecessary. --TwinsMetsFan 18:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Blank New York State Highway shield

File:NY-blank.png
A blank New York State Highway shield, that can be used as a template.

I made this blank New York State Highway shield by taking Image:NY-17.png and erasing the numbers using Paint Shop Pro. You need the Roadgeek fonts (specifically Series D) for the numbers. This template can also be found on my user page. --Kuroki Mio 2006 22:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

An SVG would be nice, though. Exactly where should numbers be positioned? This one is just for 1 and 2 digits, right? Does anyone know where I can find the exact dimensions for the purpose of making an SVG? I suppose they are in the NYSDOT MUTCD, but the FAQ says you need to pay $40 for it. --Chris 00:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I'll make an SVG later. Anyways, this shield is for the 1 and 2 digit NY highways. I made some of the shields using Paint Shop Pro, centering the numbers on the shield. --Kuroki Mio 2006 00:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Lists and Categories

I think I may have seen this discussion elsewhere and maybe it's been settled already, if so please educate me. We have a number of pages for "New York State Highway N" where N is the number, and each belongs in the category "New York state highways". So far so good. Now why do we have a page called "List of State Routes in New York"? Does this include routes that are not state highways? If not, shouldn't it be "List of New York state highways"? --Censorwolf 20:11, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Since this includes all numbered routes within NY, this list should probably be renamed to "List of numbered routes in New York" or better yet just "List of routes in New York" since "numbered" is superfluous. Including US routes and Interstates makes the name incorrect, so either what is included on the list has change or the name has to change. --Censorwolf 17:57, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
nevermind --Censorwolf 17:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Comments moved from article

Please note that the new naming standard is "New York State Route N" where N is the route number. You can help by moving the articles named "...Highway..." to "...Route..." and change all the links in articles that point to the "Highway" page to instead point to the "Route" page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Censorwolf (talk • contribs)

Redirects should be made for the non-primary names. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 21:22, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

table-izing

I mean to table-ize the interstates, us and decom'd routes also, but stopped at the 900's for now. It looks nicer, but it does make it more difficult to modify. --Censorwolf 17:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC

All of the tables will be converted to the new format ASAP. However, the directions on my earlier tables need to be fixed (as some display directions as north/south and east/west, when it should read south/north and west/east). --TwinsMetsFan 16:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
All of the tables have been converted. --TwinsMetsFan 16:11, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Decommissioned

Any reason to keep decommissioned routes in this list? Are we going to make articles for these? I can see if an article appears on a decomd route to add it to the list, but otherwise we should remove them no? For example:

New York State Route 1B - Decommissioned 1956
New York State Route 1X - Decommissioned 1946

Comments anyone? --Censorwolf 14:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I am removing the above mentioned routes from the list. They can be added in if an article gets created. --Censorwolf 16:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Please don't remove routes like this - it's more work all around. These articles will be made eventually. --SPUI (T - C - RFC) 15:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with SPUI. That's why I've been adding every decom'd route to the list as I've been revamping the tables. When completed, the only routes that shouldn't be listed are ones that have never been assigned (such as route 478).--TwinsMetsFan 16:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
On a similar note, I had an idea one night to place all of the decommissioned state routes in either a separate table or on a separate page (List of Decommissioned State Routes in New York, for example) and create a route box and a List of State Routes box for the bottom of each decom'd page exclusively for decommissioned routes (as the decom'd entry in the existing route box does not work). Any thoughts? --TwinsMetsFan 16:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I have recently added decommissioned routes 339 and 154 to list of pages. 339 is renamed as a county route, and 154 still has some reference markers on 355, so it's possible to tell part of that route. I still have to drive out and get the actual distance of 154. --Fwgoebel 15:22, 18 Nov 2006 (UTC)

Initial routes

At least some were assigned to auto trails:

Unfortunately I lack a pre-1926 map of New York. --SPUI (T - C) 03:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

New_York_State_Route_392 might be pretty old, I'm not sure. Blah42 09:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Possible earlier reference routes

From [1]

I saw 821 in purple (I think meaning proposed) on a USGS topographical map. --Chris 22:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Typically, Chris, the color purple on USGS topographical maps signifies that the road was added between two fully mapped editions. --Ebac on keyboard 17:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Ebac is correct in this regard. On the bottom of USGS topos with purple roads and buildings is a date, usually near the date that the map was originally made, that states when the purple marks were added (in other words, when the revision occurred). --TMF T - C 06:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Towns or Post Offices

Should the termini be listed by the town they are in or the post office. Where I come from, the two are often different, and it seems like this list is not consistent as to which it uses. IMO, it could work either way, but it should be uniform. --Chris 19:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Err nevermind. I've been gone a while. It looks like it should be the municipality. --Chris 22:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

US 220

US 220 is not listed in the NYSDOT route logs. I can't seem to find a Reference Route or County Route number either. It does appear that the short segment in NY is signed as US 220, but is it a state highway or state maintained at all? --Polaron | Talk 14:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

It's probably not listed because it's locally maintained - see the NYSDOT map on [2]. --SPUI (T - C) 23:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Added a note on the List of US Routes in NY to clarify. --Polaron | Talk 23:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Point of information: US 220 shield appears on the section of NY 17/Future I-86 that's within Pennsylvania, so it's on a NYSDOT-maintained Big Green Sign. It is, however, maintained locally. It's terminus is (was?) Main Street in Waverly, NY which was at the time, NY 17 (and fully in New York). Definitely worth mentioning on these pages. Fwgoebel 15:25, 18 Nov 2006

Reorganizing this list

There has to be a better way to organize this list while preserving all of the information presented. For example, all of the decommissioned routes could be split off into their own section of the page.

Then again, is it necessary to have the termini for all of the routes? I can see the purpose of listing the termini for routes that have no article written about them yet, but for routes that have an article written for it (which is at least 60-70% of the routes at time of writing), this seems a bit redundant. With that said, here's some ideas:

  • Break the page into four main sections:
    • Current State Routes
      • Routes 1-99
      • Routes 100-199, etc.
    • Decommissioned State Routes
    • Interstate Highways in New York
    • U.S./Federal Highways in New York
  • Remove the termini information for all routes that have an article that sufficiently contains this information (through a routebox, intro paragraph, etc.).
  • Add a few sections about the state road system itself, such as its history, links to the 1930 renumbering, areas with similarly numbered routes (the 100 and 110-series on Long Island as an example), etc.

Why is this reorganization necessary in my opinion? I've viewed the state road lists for other states and they are, for the most part, clean, straightforward, and to the point while being concise in the process. In comparison, this list is a bit cumbersome, to edit, to use, and to load (for users on slower connections). All thoughts and comments are welcome. --TMF T - C 19:43, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the termini are important. It allows a person browsing the routes to know at a glance what parts of the state the highways cover. I also think information about the state road system itself needs to be in a separate article (this is just supposed to be a list). Powers T 14:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Eventually, what'd I'd like to see is something like a mix of North Carolina Highway System and Michigan highway system, minus the state route shields. Who knows, after looking at the Michigan article, maybe all this list needs is some reorganization or cleanup. I think if we did something like the MI page, we'd be able to have information on the system as well as maintain all of the information present.
I also like the Ohio approach, by splitting the list up into subpages with, in NY's case, List of numbered highways in New York acting as a portal page. Perhaps a blend of all three would be best. Thoughts? --TMF T - C 15:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I much prefer using a table as we do now to either of those examples, but that's just me. Powers T 23:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Returning to this issue, I noticed that this page is now 165 KB long - far exceeding the recommended article size. That said, this page needs to be split, somehow. Perhaps the Interstates and U.S. routes should be given their own article, as is done in other states. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 17:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup complete. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 02:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Reference Markers

I'm wondering if there's an interest in doing some work on those little green signs, Reference Markers, sometimes called Tenth Mile Markers, along New York State DOT-maintained roads in New York.

I suppose it could start simple, describing what each of the digits mean, on main roads in regions 1-10 (outside New York City). NYC does operate a bit differently. Beyond that, there are other rules for ramps and access roads, west- or south-bound couplets, etc. Any thoughts? Fwgoebel 20:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

A separate article for reference markers already exists at List of New York State Reference Routes, but if you'd like to expand on that article, that'd be great. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 20:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if that's necessarily the best place for an article about the little green signs themselves...what's there is an (incomplete?) list of Reference Routes, and how they differ from Touring Routes. An article about the Reference Markers themselves would probably be buried in a list like that...I'm wondering if it's better a little higher up on the hierarchy, since the markers themselves are on every highway and non-Thruway Interstate. I suppose that, once completed, it would be an ideal "See also" to put at the bottom of every state highway article. But enough about that for now...I just got done driving the length of old NY 154 so I can finish that article, plus put up NY 295, 203, and 150. Fwgoebel 01:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

NY 9C

Did NY 9C ever exist? I can't seem to find any information on it. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 05:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

There is some information in the copy of the 1930 Automobile Green Book that I have. It appears that in 1930, US 9W was still designated north of Albany up to Waterford. However, from Albany to Waterford, it ran along modern day NY 32. NY 9C was the designation for the present US 9 from Albany to Malta (Albany - Latham - Halfmoon - Malta). At this time, US 9 ran along modern US 4 from Rensselaer to Mechanicville (US 4 was only designated up to Glens Falls), then NY 67 to Malta. North of Malta it coincides with modern US 9. --Polaron | Talk 06:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for that information. Good find. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 07:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Bicycle Routes 5, 9 and 17

These should be included. https://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/portal/divisions/operating/opdm/community-assistance-delivery-bureau/biking

This is probably better for the New York numbered highway page, since this page is large enough as it is. Plus, they're not "state routes" in the sense of what this page is intended to cover, but I have no problems with someone adding them to the overall numbered highway page. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 13:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

If you want this to happen, add a request, or start the article yourself. --Chessecake (talk) 16:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Significance of the shield?

I think this article is missing a key piece of information. What does the shield represent? Most states either use the state outline or a boring square or circle. Some states can be figured out (Pennsylvania uses a keystone as the keystone state, Utah uses a beehive as the beehive state, California's shield is a miners spade if you look at it long enough. South Dakota is a head of Sioux indian, etc.) What does NY's shield represent? Davemeistermoab (talk) 05:09, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a simplified version of the shield on the state seal, but I'm not that sure to be honest. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 05:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
That's exactly what it is. --DanTD (talk) 17:02, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
IMO a line or two should be added to the article to explain this. Similar to the one line explanation in the California or Utah articles. Davemeistermoab (talk) 21:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

What sheild? Do you meen the NYS Route Symbol? If yes, it probably has something to do with empires saying New York is the "Empire State". --Chessecake (talk) 16:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

(Junky) No Current Stuff!

Please stop adding - no current stuff as this is a page for a list of NYS Routes and not NYS Route info, please don't undo edits conserning the deleting of "no current route" stuff.

--Check77 (talk) 19:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Current routes vs. former routes are clearly marked in the table and would not likely confuse most people. There is no good reason to hide information about former routes as an encyclopedia is not limited to things in the present time.Polaron | Talk 20:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


Hello, I agree with Check77, that article is for "State Routes" not for Former Routes. I think maybe they should either put them on another article or move the article. Which will it be? I say move it, though I don't know how to...

--Chessecake (talk) 16:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Please review WP:SOCKS#Voting and other shows of support. Thank you.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Reference?

I was wondering, is there like a Reference or something as you people get this "Former info" from. Or did people get told from there relatives, etc?


--Chessecake (talk) 16:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

NY 546 and NY 646

The reference cited in the NY 146 article just says these numbers are reserved, not that they will be used any time soon. is there a better reference available? I tried to add citation needed tags, but it messed up tha table for some reason. --Triskele Jim (talk) 16:45, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

You've got this one. I tried to add NY 646 yesterday, but I made the mistake of only adding it to one section of the table, when I should've done the whole thing. I found the same problem when I was editing the exit list for Interstate 26 a while back. ----DanTD (talk) 17:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

State routes that aren't state highways?

A significant number of state touring routes follow roads that are not state highways. Examples include SR 155 from US 20 to I-87, SR 199 west of the Wallkill River, and most state routes inside of city limits (unless formally adopted as a "state arterial highway" by the state legislature). Is this worth noting? I'm not sure. It would take considerable room to list all the routes inside of city limits.--Triskele Jim (talk) 16:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Maintenance of the various sections are probably better described in the specific touring route articles they apply to. I can imagine a few routes where this would clutter up the list too much. --Polaron | Talk 16:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I still remember hearing about Merrick Boulevard west of Massapequa and "Old Montauk Highway" between Hither Hills State Park and downtown Montauk as being referred to as "NYS Route 27A," and NYSDOT explaining that those two roads are considered "State Non-Touring Routes," or something like that. When I went back to Long Island in May 2008 and tried to find the sign in Hither Hills referring to Old Montauk Highway as Route 27A, it was gone. ----DanTD (talk) 17:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

There is no New York State! There is no New York City! Both are New York!

We dont call the articles on Vermont highways "Vermont State Route X" so why are New York state routes (lowercase s mind-you) "New York State Route X". The name of the state is "New York" NOT New York State. State is put in departments and names where state would normally be put in ANY state's departments or creations. There is a city of the same name as the state in MANY states, if not most, New York should be treated no differently. I propose and am willing to start doing the changes myself if no one objects, to change all state route pages from New York State Route X to New York Route X instead of all the redirects going the other way. City is part of the official name of places like Kansas City, Jefferson City, Iowa City, Souix City, Nebraska City (yes it exists), and the many many many other places with City in the name. This is not true of the city of New York. Contact the USPS (a federal agency), the official line is that New York is to be used NOT New York City, they will even correct you on their website if you try and find the ZIP code for "New York City". 148.78.243.26 (talk) 00:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

They're State Routes, regardless of whether they're in NYS or NYC. ----DanTD (talk) 01:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
NYSDOT uses "Route #" not "State Route #" so I would think that would be acceptable. Many state departments have State in there names to distinguish them from the equivalent city agency, such as NYSDOT vs. NYCDOT.--Triskele Jim (talk) 17:58, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I was about to add the similar comments as above when I saw that they have been made already. To clarify what hasn't quite been said, WP:USSH states that the correct WP usage is "Vermont Route (number)" but "New York State Route (number)". I have looked at NYSDOT released information and can't find use of the word "state" though there are plenty of "New York Route (number)" and "NY (number)". Shouldn't we reconsider and use the standard usage and not a term that we created ourselves? Chergles (talk) 20:16, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

so... many.... pictures.....

Is it wise to have so many pictures on this page? Although I haven't used dialup in years, I remember those days well. I pity the person trying to view this page on a dialup connection. Has anybody tried?Dave (talk) 14:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, the purpose is to make a good idea of what the road is like, just one image for each road. It should work when all the routes have an image.Mitchazenia :  Chat  Trained for the pen 14:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I question the need for all the images as well, since the page is 100KB at the present time (and is somewhat sluggish on my relatively good connection). If the pictures are necessary, then it may be better to break the list up into subpages. – TMF 05:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
That's odd because I don't seem suffer that problem. Hmm.Mitchazenia :  Chat  Trained for the pen 12:21, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
You know, this could be solved if more of them were resized. ----DanTD (talk) 13:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
If it were up to me, I'd strip out all the pictures that merely show route markers. Unless there is something notable that is best shown with a photo, it shouldn't have a picture. NY 218, carved out of a cliff face overlooking the Hudson River, maybe deserves a picture. Run of the mill suburban minor arterials do not.--Triskele Jim (talk) 17:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I tend to agree with this assessment. I can see a use for scenic pictures like the one on NY 97 where it goes through the Hawk's Nest since it's a fairly interesting sight. But yeah, the rampant sign assembly and route marker pics and maps have no place on this page. – TMF 00:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

See WT:NYSR#A smorgasbord of topics, where I have proposed the removal of all of the pictures. – TMF 15:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

The "X" designations (excluding 1 and 9X)

I've looked at the sources for these "designations" and I'm not convinced - in fact, far from it - that these are actual designations. Here's what I see from the source for NY 174X: a typical entry in the bridge data has the route number and the reference marker at that location ("298 298 33012093", where the first 298 is the number and the rest is the text on the marker). The only entry I can find for "174X" reads "174 X" (note the space). To me, I interpret this as that NYSDOT was unsure of the text of the reference marker at that location rather than another designation. Also compare that to the entry directly above it, which reads "174 174 33011126". Lastly, when known suffixed routes (I-90 - "90I" or I-481 - "481I") are listed in the log, there is no space between the number and the suffix. Thus, I'm fairly certain that these designations don't exist and I strongly suggest that they be pulled from the table and from articles. – TMF 20:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

NY 376D

See Talk:New York State Route 376#State Route 376D?. – TMF 21:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Former routes

@Cards84664 and DJV11181988: I can't really tell from the article history, but why were former routes removed from the list? They should be re-added ASAP or I will simply revert back. I greatly support adding the Routelist templates, but not if former routes are going to be removed.

In related news, {{Jct}} should also be removed for simple [[wikitext]]. –Fredddie™ 01:31, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

For the moment, the former routes are being removed because someone had already made articles for former routes, (they were split by User:TwinsMetsFan back in 2010) I was unsure wether or not that was the right thing to do, but since the articles listed at List of former state routes in New York are in much greater detail; I had decided to have them removed until such a time when they can be merged again (For example; Former Ohio state routes were separated from the main list, starting in 2013 with articles created by User:Mr. Matté, and due to missing former routes not being listed al all, they were not re-merged until the end of last year (myself)) Furthermore, since the articles on former state routes in New York are in a better format, I would recommend that they keep their own respective pages. This is because if we were to list individual former state routes, it would take a very long time to scroll to the bottom of the route list. But that's just my opinion to make this a better article. Cards84664 (talk) 01:55, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
Good explanation. Jct should still be removed from the page, though. As it stands, the shields stop about halfway down the list of 100s and no others are going to show up. –Fredddie™ 02:07, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
I'll be on that. Cards84664 (talk) 02:25, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
I responded on your talk page, not noticing this, but I am going to suggest any future changes be added to a sandbox first then working on the main list. It's a big mess. As for the decommissioned routes, I will heavily suggest not removing them. Mitch32(I can have oodles of charm when I want to.) 20:50, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
So where does this leave the lists of former routes? Cards84664 (talk) 21:57, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
That will be dealt with in due time. Mitch32(I can have oodles of charm when I want to.) 02:54, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

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