Talk:List of largest funerals

Order?

In what order are these funerals listed? Doesn't seem to be alphabetical or chronological, or by number of attendants. - Boneyard90 (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Seems to be in date order now.

Scope

Not sure why it includes Caesar, then no-one else till the 19th c.

Omissions numerous, before and after Caesar, and in the late 19th c too. I nominate Nelson and Verdi, for a start. Oh, and why is bigger better? How about Mozart? Rank and fame are mere baubles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.174.26 (talk) 21:53, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

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Largest funeral

Karunanidhi funeral in Chennai 09/0818 Crowd gathering approx 2000000 people

Jeba1986 (talk) 18:03, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Khadim Hussain Rizvi

There have been repeated, non-stop attempts to inflate the figure. Do we stick with the 200,000 estimated by Reuters (who are clearly reliable), or the unclear figure estimated by Data Stories, who don't even give a figure but three estimates from an app. FDW777 (talk) 10:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Regarding any claims of around 14,000,000, see WP:REDFLAG. FDW777 (talk) 12:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Regarding this reference, it cites a journalist as saying So far I am told Millions have gathered for a funeral at Minar E Pakistan. I do not know how people can be counted. Told by who? He himself says he's basically got no idea how many people are there. FDW777 (talk) 10:43, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Once again, Data Stories don't even provide a figure. They aren't even making a credible estimate. They use an app, and don't even draw any conclusions from what the app says. See also the discussion at Talk:Khadim Hussain_Rizvi#How Many People's in the Funeral of Allama Khadim Hussain Rizvi.

Reuters are listed as reliable at WP:RSP. Data Stories are not. FDW777 (talk) 21:59, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Regarding The National. This says

• Tens of thousands of people have ignored Covid-19 restrictions and gathered for the funeral prayers
• and appeared to be one of the biggest crowds ever seen in the Punjab city of more than 11 million people
• Local observers estimated attendance could have run to several hundred thousand

It is difficult to take them particularly seriously when they give three different figures in the space of a few short paragraphs. FDW777 (talk) 18:30, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2020

Mr.CEO of Wikipedia i want to request to change/edit last funeral of this list. i am waiting for your permissions. thanks Mreditorcorrect (talk) 17:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done No change suggested, if a reference is provided a change might be made. FDW777 (talk) 17:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Update Khadim Hussain Rizvi Funeral attendies

Hope you are doing well. So recently I was researching about how much people attended Maulana Khadim Hussain Rizvi Funeral and I founded out it's more than 1 million. And is from Google maps so it's authentic too. Please update it. We shall be very grateful to you. Attaching link of Google Map picture in case it's required http://www.datastories.pk/estimating-the-number-of-people-who-attended-khadim-rizvis-funeral/ 39.33.185.102 (talk) 18:54, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done See section above at #Khadim Hussain Rizvi. The reference you provide does not even give an estimate of their own, only three figures provided by an app from which it chooses not to draw any conclusion regarding the attendance. FDW777 (talk) 19:11, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Puneeth Rajkumar removed

Neither reference provided gives any figure at all for the attendance. FDW777 (talk) 17:54, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Actually the second one does given an attendace, given it says As many as 10 lakh (one lakh = 100,000) I'm not feeling particularly minded to self-revert with a corrected figure, since it was a disruptive addition of 2,400,000 to begin with. FDW777 (talk) 17:58, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Please add puneeth rajkumar to the list who died 29 October. Around more than 25 lakh people gathered

Add puneeth Rajkumar 2409:4071:4D8A:F53E:0:0:ED0A:7208 (talk) 11:25, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Please offer independent reliable sources that discuss attendance figures for his funeral. 331dot (talk) 12:47, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Table broken?

When I sort the table by number of attendees going greatest-least, the number ~1,000,000 appears before the two funerals at ~2,000,000. Not sure if this is intentional because they aren't exact figures; but I don't know how to edit tables and don't want to break anything. :-)
Thanks, Gageills (talk) 00:57, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, I was about to make a section of the same thing regarding the table order, it goes from 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 (for 3 rows), then 20,000 and then 100,000, and many more wrong in order, I would assume it might have to do something with the "~" symbols and how some are written like "thousands" or "nearly". It's even worse when trying to sort via television audience. I will hope it gets fixed, but there is still a mess going on from what I see, so perhaps after. - RandomEditorAAA (talk) 16:16, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

There also seems to be a problem when sorting by date. Sorting by date only arranges the months in alphabetical order, instead of by chronological order. Potatoplantation (talk) 06:14, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

@Gageills @RandomEditorAAA @Potatoplantation

I fixed sorting by No. of attendees and Television audience. Regarding the dates, IMO it's something nice to have but not a high priority because the table as default is sorted by dates in the ascending order (when you've already clicked a column header to start sorting, you can just reload the page). Grillofrances (talk) 18:57, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Great job and thank you Grillofrances for your work! - RandomEditorAAA (talk) 19:24, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks a ton! Gageills (talk) 00:02, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Add Puneeth Rajkumar

For source u can ask ChiefMinister of karnataka or any NewsChanels 2401:4900:4E54:127D:55F8:6088:BAE8:BB57 (talk) 08:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

It is not up to us to find sources for your proposed edits, you must provide them. Asking a government official is not an independent reliable source that can be verified. If the attendance of this person's funeral is discussed in independent sources, please offer them. 331dot (talk) 08:49, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Funeral of Dr.Puneeth Rajkumar

On 29 October 2021, Puneeth complained of uneasiness to his wife Ashwini, and died on his way to the hospital at the age of 46. The reason for his death was declared to be cardiac arrest. He donated his eyes in accordance with a pledge by his father Rajkumar, that he along with all his family members will donate their eyes after death.The donation of his eyes has given eyesight to four different people.His state funeral was attended by the Chief Minister of Karnataka, Basavaraj Bommai and other leaders. His body was kept for public view at Kanteerava stadium for 3 days, and was reportedly attended by more than 25 lakh people. He was buried alongside his parents at Sree Kanteerava Studios in Bangalore. and Many of his fans died of hearing the news of death of their beloved Star. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravi Boregowda (talk • contribs) 05:32, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Sortable by number

Would be nice if the table would be sortable 185.162.3.149 (talk) 19:36, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

It can usually be done with the Template:Nts but from my attempts it doesn't work properly here due to symbols and words in front of the numbers, plus a lot of the fields contain "millions" and "thousands" which are not numbers. -Vipz (talk) 20:24, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

@Vipz

I fixed sorting by numbers, using the nts template. Alternatively, data-sort-value attribute could have been used which would be clearer - still the same text could be displayed but with sorting fixed. When using the nts template, I needed to change the displayed text as it doesn't seem to allow setting a custom post-fix (only prefix). I needed to change also numbers as text into digits so now, instead of "Millions" it displays "at least 1,000,000". Grillofrances (talk) 19:06, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for working that out! -Vipz (talk) 19:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Really, since the list subject is the size, should it not be default organised by size? There are surely other ways to organise to be more informative, too, like splitting by country to give a better comparison? Kingsif (talk) 00:54, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Funeral of Engelbert Dollfuss

Currently the article states, that the number of attendees at the funeral of Engelbert Dollfuss amounted to at least 11,000,000. Bearing in mind the the TOTAL Austrian population in 1934 was around 6.4 Mio people the number is not credible at all. Could someone please check the source? Gugganij (talk) 17:54, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Yep, this is a garbage claim. I am removing it and replacing it with the 500,000 given by Time Magazine (which is also included on Dollfuss' main page). Horarum (talk) 15:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Page format

The pagevseemed much easier to follow presented chronologically. I'd suggest it go back to that form and be renamed 'List of notable funerals' or, if kept as is, provide an either/or option. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Randy Kryn: See the recent page history. I tried to restore the last stable version but the person who overhauled this page is now stonewalling.[1][2]. Ratnahastin (talk) 12:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping Ratnahastin. I'm not very much involved with this page, just thought that the chronological format works better and liked how you recently reverted the page. This new numerical format seems to be based on including the television audiences as "attending", a concept that maybe comes from the number of people watching sports events or things like the Apollo 11 Moon mission, so the numbers are either inflated or deflated by how many national or international television networks cover a funeral and for how long. I'd personally leave it at physical attendees if numbers are the format, but yes, the chronological format is a much better way of assessing the relative attention given to individual funerals. I'd include information about the lying-in-state numbers, but to each their own view of how such a page should be presented. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:22, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes this page is supposed to be only about attendees in person, not the speculated figures based on TV viewers or online viewers which are ought to be inflated by the PR agencies that have promoted these events. Talking about those who were not physically present at the funeral actually defeats the purpose of this page. Ratnahastin (talk) 03:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

The television audiences, if they are included within the chronological order and not as the determinative factor of page listing, seem like good information (but not, as mentioned, as the way of ordering the page's entries). Randy Kryn (talk) 03:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Ratnahastin, you were edit warring and I told you to discuss, I did not originally undo your reversions, and I would recommend you not insult other editors while trying to hide your own edit warring.

Rather than two editors (also @Randy Kryn:) go back and forth about what you think the list should be in theory, I will happily moderate this (rather than weigh in, as an involved party).

Looks like there are some options on how to structure the article, based on your combined thoughts so far:

1. Chronologically, which would require a page move. (I would also suggest sectioning so people can actually follow on most devices without getting lost in endless tables)
2. By attendance, physical attendance only
3. By attendance, including broadcast attendance and/or lying-in-state attendance
4. Some other order that reflects "relative attention" (importance?) as the main sorting factor

Would you like to discuss the merits of all these; would you like wider attention for this discussion? Kingsif (talk) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Kingif, for presenting the options. A chronological listing, as this page was presented until very recently, does not necessarily require a name change. This is not a list of every funeral but a list of notable large funerals, and doesn't need to be ordered by attendance (the name implies notability of the person being funeraled, to coin a word, it just takes note that the funeral was prominent within society). Randy Kryn (talk) 11:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

What does "largest" mean to you, then? The article was always about attendance size, that's the scope. Kingsif (talk) 21:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I feel like we should also alert @Never17:, the user who restored and who Ratnahastin started their edit warring with. Kingsif (talk) 21:11, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

What did i do? Never17 (talk) 01:15, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

This page is supposed to be only about attendees in person. Your edits are bringing up speculated figures based on TV viewers or online viewers which are ought to be inflated by the PR agencies. That defeats the purpose of this page which is all about physical attendance. Ratnahastin (talk) 02:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Let's note that it is an opinion that this article should only include physical attendance, and people are allowed to have another opinion: outright stating it's the only way isn't conducive to discussion. The characterisation of PR is also an opinion, and one that doesn't really matter here, in the sense of the numbers being WP:V at least. Not to mention, one could say it's easier for the figures of physical attendance to be inflated (hard to count) than the stats of a broadcaster that are logged digitally, if going down that road rather than just saying "estimated" or "approximate" in the article. Kingsif (talk) 04:52, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Diff - just thought it appropriate you be notified, you don't have to have an opinion. Kingsif (talk) 02:15, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

• @Ratnahastin and Randy Kryn: Since I've been reminded of this issue, here's a reminder to you both that this discussion is here and should be resolved - reverting BOLD edits must be discussed, and not only until others stop pushing for them. It's all well and good for you to say that other users can't force changes (i.e. make good faith improvement edits), but then refusing to discuss those changes is effectively preventing them from happening and thus forcing your own preferred version. And without having really provided an explanation as to why you think the proposed changes made the article worse, too. Kingsif (talk) 21:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks for the ping Kingsif, I haven't looked at the page since I left my last note. Will read the comments since and catch up. Still think the chronological order serves the page best, but if there's disagreement then more editors should be alerted. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

  No worries, I've also been busy. Would love to hear reasons for your thoughts, too. It's not a high-trafficked article so small consensus will probably suffice for now. Kingsif (talk) 22:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

  Chronological order is fine, people can always sort by in the person attendance or broadcast viewership if they want Never17 (talk) 22:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

  The chronological ordering also might catch readers interest because the list starts out with some pre-radio/TV high-profile personalities. Am fine with keeping the sourced numbers for approximate viewers or radio listeners, which gives another metric of interest and arguably goes to 'largest', but within the chronological format. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)