Talk:List of best-selling music artists
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It is essential to provide reliable sources when editing this article. For examples, see the references section. Unsourced or unreliably sourced additions will be removed immediately. The list is frequently edited in good faith to update the certified sales figures; however, claimed sales figures need to be supported by reliable sources, preferably from news organizations. Artists with claimed sales figures below 75 million may not be added to the list. Whilst we encourage editors to be bold, it is highly recommended to discuss changes on this talk page before editing. Below you can get an understanding as to when certifications for songs are added to the total certified sales of the listed artists.
The year next to markets below indicates how far back the certification systems go in each country. The percentages stand for the global market share based on a 2007 IFPI report.
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Eminem[edit]
this article as written has Eminem selling more records in the USA than anyone else. Ever. More than Michael, more than Elvis, more than the Beatles. I suspect three are plenty more errors. Xraygun (talk) 04:53, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- It's not an error – those are the total certified sales worldwide (not just in the USA). The switch from physical records to streaming has made it far easier to gain certifications than for artists from the pre-digital era. If you think Eminem's figures are not believable, you should take a look at Drake's certified sales further down the page... Richard3120 (talk) 15:32, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
BTS have sold over 100 million units[edit]
The Korean band BTS have sold well over 100 millions units and are currently the 41st highest selling musical act ever, but they're not even included in this article.
https://chartmasters.org/best-selling-artists-of-all-time/ Snidoodle (talk) 19:52, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Chartmasters is not considered a reliable source. Richard3120 (talk) 21:19, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Total certified units (from available markets) and Claimed sales[edit]
Hello, I want to help with this topic, have references from reputable media on music business and have reliable statistics on the lists that we can trust.
- What is the criteria for sorting sales lists by claimed sales instead of certified units?
Certified units come from reputable companies that can ensure that those units were sold according to their control methods.
- Do we have a list of specific websites and media that we accept as reputable media about total artist sales?
If we have that list, why we are not adhering to that websites and are using any website as a reference?
Another questions is: Why we have outdated references to websites in the lists?
Are we allowed to delete outdated references from the page as part of editing the article?
Examples of outdated references we should prune:
- Beyoncé Claimed sales 160 million [141] "How Beyonce conquered sportswear". Irish Independent. August 15, 2016.
- Taylor Swift Claimed sales 170 million [134] "5 most popular Instagram accounts". The New Zealand Herald. September 25, 2015.
The references quoted are a decade old and pertain to media unrelated to music. Moreover, these artists have achieved significant album sales in the years spanning from the article's publication to the present year. Paladium (talk) 12:59, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- The only official source we've had was the IFPI list from 2006, which is nearly 20 years old
- >2006 - Eurovision - Best selling artists (IFPI list)
- The Beatles - 400 Million
- Michael Jackson - 350 Million
- Elvis Presley - 300 Million
- Madonna - 250 Million
[Edit]
However this was a long time ago, and is no longer accurate. The only other thing resembling a source is Chartmasters but it's wholly unreliable.
Generally media outlets will report sales given by the record companies or piggyback off of what's listed here in Wikipedia.
Occasionally publications will provide their own figures, but again those are just estimates from a single editor. We don't know who the best selling artists are, the only thing we know for certain is that Madonna is the 4th best selling artist, and Jackson, Elvis and the Beatles sold 500 million
(Never17 (talk) 22:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Madonna[edit]
Hi All: I am a bit confused about the claimed RIAA Sales for Madonna and what they are saying. The article cites a 86.5 number but the numbers from the organization are only at 65 million. The attached list also leaves out Garth Brooks, which according to their count is in the top grouping even without international numbers. DesertVulture (talk) 00:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Elvis is widely acclaimed as the best selling solo artist in history.[edit]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#CITEREFReuters2022 161.11.160.60 (talk) 16:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
We should establish a threshold for claimed sales[edit]
To avoid any controversy regarding claimed sales, we should determine a minimum threshold for what certified sales need to be in relative to claimed sales. Originally in 2009, the threshold was "Certified sales must be within 15% of claimed sales". That's too low however, if we set a benchmark of around 50%, then whenever a certain act is certified close to half of the highest claimed figure for them, editors would add that and swap out the lowest claimed figure.
This is currently being used for the albums page, and editors will freely make adjustments to albums whenever they meet the required number of certifications. That would work very well here, and could be noted at the top of the page.
Never17 (talk) 03:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Our whole discussion has been deleted for some reason my friend, perhaps by mistake on my part or not. I have no idea. However, I do share your sentiments in making this Wikipedia's best-selling list a truthful and factual one. It was quite delightful in having a fruitful discussion with you on this matter. Victor0327 (talk) 03:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- I was unhappy with my comments so i deleted it. If we establish a benchmark of "claimed sales must be within 49-50% of certified sales" then it would make it far more easier for editors to monitor the page.
- For example
- 800 million claimed - Certified sales of at least 395 million
- 750 Million claimed - Certified sales of at least 350 million
- 600 million claimed - Certified sales of at least 295 million
- 500 million claimed - Certified sales of at least 245 million
- 400 million claimed - Certified sales of at least 200 million
- Something like this, would be far more manageable and keeps this page unbiased.
The Beatles are basically at 295 million which is roughly 49% of 600 million, it's close enough that they'd be eligible for what's been claimed. We can apply this same logic to any past musical act like MJ who has claims of 750 million or Elvis who has claims of 600 million, Madonna for example who has 400 million claimed. When their certified sales reach this then they'd be upped to that figure.
Since Thriller is at 100 million with 50 million certified, it's also reasonable that one of the three artists could be placed at 1 billion claimed sales if they were to reach 500 million certified.
Never17 (talk) 04:14, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with you. We can work on this. We can make Wikipedia's best-selling a truthful benchmark for all other websites. Victor0327 (talk) 04:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your help, it's very much appreciated :) Never17 (talk) 04:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- You are very welcome my friend. Victor0327 (talk) 04:29, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your help, it's very much appreciated :) Never17 (talk) 04:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- numerous articles and sony records have CLAIMED elvis
- is the highest selling solo artist
- sold over a billion records
- A quick google search can verify this and see that the Riaa greatly discounts elvis sales due to there rules.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#CITEREFReuters2022 161.11.160.60 (talk) 12:58, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Guys, attempts to establish a threshold for certified sales is exactly what got this page into trouble with admins in the first place – it's original research and should not be attempted. The last discussion about possibly inflated sales for the Beatles and Elvis Presley (Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 44#Beatles's 600m (inflated)) resulted in concerns about arbitrary thresholds being used – see Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 45#Fundamental Article Issues and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1107#Constant disruptions by User:TheWikiholic, User:TruthGuardians and User:Salvabl at the Talk:List of best-selling music artists. The result of that was that a consensus was established as to what should be presented on this page – see Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 46#RfC on listing method of best-selling music artists. As a result, you should NOT be making any changes to this consensus, and you will have to set up another RfC if you want to change anything. Richard3120 (talk) 14:10, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- So what is the current methology being used? C was
- "All artists included on this list, which have begun charting on official albums or singles charts have their available claimed figures supported by at least 30 percent in certified units"
- That's basically what i described, are we using this right now? Or is it something different now? Never17 (talk) 18:52, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure where you are reading that... option C of the RfC, which was the option that was accepted as consensus, was "both the number of claimed sales and certified sales (without the requirement for inclusion based on figures being supported by a percentage of certified units used)". Which sounds like the complete opposite. Richard3120 (talk) 03:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, your right that is what people decided. So updating sales basically comes down to a editors discretion then? Never17 (talk) 03:59, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- I read it as "include both the claimed sales from reliable sources, and the certified sales", and editors should not decide on whether claimed sales are believable or not, but should simply report them without comment. Richard3120 (talk) 04:52, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, your right that is what people decided. So updating sales basically comes down to a editors discretion then? Never17 (talk) 03:59, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure where you are reading that... option C of the RfC, which was the option that was accepted as consensus, was "both the number of claimed sales and certified sales (without the requirement for inclusion based on figures being supported by a percentage of certified units used)". Which sounds like the complete opposite. Richard3120 (talk) 03:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
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