Talk:Klaus Fleming

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Untitled[edit]

Accoring to wiki rules, the original name Klas Fleming should be used, not the Finnish translation. Teuton 13:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move, No proof of originality, form "Klas Fleming" seldom used. -- Petri Krohn 16:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I rest my case, I was wrong in this case, Diplomatarium Fennicum states Claus Fleming. How do we revert the request? Teuton 17:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC) Sorry, I was looking at the wrong C. Fleming. Jully Ramsay, Finlands medeltida frälse intill Stora ofreden, states that our Klas Fleming is Klas - not Klaus. Claus was as far as I can see only used in latin, and Clas or Klas in Swedish, which was the mother tongue of Klas. So the request stays. If Petri has any sources, please forward them. Teuton 17:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. This is English Wikipedia, not a place to mask people behind their names' translations to Swedish. Additionally, the incoherent discussion the requester has this far shown on this page about RM issue, gives a clear doubt whether the requester knows anything about how to name biographies here. Suedois 00:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suedoise, are you suggesting that Klas Fleming was born Finnish speaking and took a Finnish name, and I am now translating his name into Swedish? For your information he most likely did not speak a word of Finnish. I gave you a source, you will have to do better than that. And I do not appreciate your personal attacks.

Teuton 20:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You just do not get it! For medieval and pre-modern names, it made no difference what language the owner of the name spoke. Whe ever wrote the name down on paper used his own language. Names just did not have languare, they had different renderings in all languages. -- Petri Krohn 05:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The translation of original names in Finnish/Swedish history was invented by some Finnish historians and culminated in the 1930ies. However, this is not even relevant as we are speaking about English Wiki. There is little logical reason for translating the names into Finnish here. /Teuton 16:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support; while it is difficult to google a common name, scholar.google.com gives 9 results for Klas Fleming (limiting by admiral to force English results); and two for Klaus; Taking out "admiral" yields four more results, but one of them is in German and the other three are about someone else. Septentrionalis 00:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Klaus, although in the same (more distant) family also Klas was used[edit]

Strong Oppose: Using quote/unquote signs around said wordings in Google; "Klaus Fleming" gives 1840 results. "Klas Fleming" gives 557 results. When trying "Claus Fleming" (38 results), Google asks you: "Did you mean "Klaus Fleming".

As this person was referred to by different titles ahead of his name (and so were those using the name Klas), no title must be used in a search engine test. Furthermore, that sort of test really doesn't have a whole lot of usefulness/value in this case, anyway - due to a number of reasons.

We do not know what languages this person spoke (probably Finnish, Swedish, French, Latin ...?), nor should that issue play any role in this "name" consideration anyway, regardless of the ways he spoke, dressed, behaved, etc. So, let us not even begin speculating that question.

During earlier times it was fashionable for Finns to use Latin (Alopaeus, Chydenius, Hackzelius, Sibelius ... Cadolin, etc.) or Swedish (e.g. Lind - as in Arvi Lind) versions/translations of their names in official and/or written use. That did not make a person more Swedish or less Finnish, of course.

Either Swedish or Finnish (or both) still today can be an official native language, a mother tongue, of a Finn. What matters here is, that this particular person's name appears to have been Klaus Fleming.

Swedish Speaker 10:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)- -[reply]

Follow wiki consensus - use original names for none royalties[edit]

Strongly support In the the original documents of the Finnish National Archive, the name used by our person here is consistently Clas. He was a Swedish speaking nobleman and there is no evidence of —him mastering Swedish. Nationalistic Finns tend to translate the names of Swedish speaking nobility in Finland into Finnish. However, according to Wiki-rules the original names are to be used. If translations are made in this forum are made, then such translations must be into English and not Finnish. However, as this case does not concern royalty, no translation is to be made. The name used by the person himself is Clas - not Klaus.Teuton 17:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. There was no consistency in spelling in his time. The notion of a "correct" spelling was foreign to the times.

The first spelling used is usually much less important for Wikipedia naming conventions than the last spelling used, and the standard is how he is best known in English.

We could just roll a die and pick one of these names—but there simply isn't any reason to move it from a perfectly acceptable name. Just make damn sure you have redirects or disambiguation page links from all the other variants mentioned here, not the redlink at the first version proposed nor at any other of them. Gene Nygaard 04:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Move Request[edit]

It was requested that this article be renamed but the procedure outlined at WP:RM#Steps for requesting a controversial page move did not appear to be followed, and consensus could not be determined. Please request a move again with proper procedure if there is still a desire for the page to be moved. Thank you for your time! -- tariqabjotu 04:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It might make sense to rename this article with some disambiguation addition, and redirect "Klaus Fleming" to the disambiguation page now at Klas Fleming; I've added another earlier one mentioned in the article about the family, plus the Swedish ship, to the disambiguation page. Gene Nygaard 16:35, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Swedish Nobleman[edit]

Klas Fleming was never a finish nobleman since there was no finnish state at that time. --Dahlis 00:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is King Charles 'insulting' the corpse?[edit]

Because unless theres a partiuclalry good reason, a portrait of someone's corpse being insulted by someone living is probably not the best representation of that person. I mean, really, id be glad to see it removed unless this makes some special sense that was not discussed in the article. If there IS such a reason, it should be in the article. 74.132.249.206 (talk) 03:51, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I similarly support this, and as it has not been addressed in 6 years am removing it. Dbsseven (talk) 16:41, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]