Talk:Kadyrovites

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HanzoHattori postings[edit]

It should be the Kadyrovtsy. Really almost no one ever uses the "English" term. --HanzoHattori 09:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree! make it so 173.79.128.173 (talk) 02:08, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did I say yet it should be Kadyrovtsy really? Oh, I meant it. --HanzoHattori 15:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

North and South are not GRU[edit]

--84.234.60.154 (talk) 21:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alkhanov and Gortez[edit]

Best would be to integrate those short articles into here I believe. - PietervHuis (talk) 20:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes do it and all will better 173.79.128.173 (talk) 02:09, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

North / South "Spetznaz"[edit]

About the 3rd paragraph:

"Yug" / "юг" is in fact "South" in Russian c.f. "Yugoslavia". "Sever" / "север" is Russian for "North". Switched? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helicon (talk • contribs) 04:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008[edit]

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 15:19, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are the Kadyrovtsy in the 2008 Georgian war?[edit]

Are these the same as the "Chechen militiamen" used by the Russians in the August 2008 invasion of Georgia? I haven't heard one way or the other from the media, but this would seem to make sense -- I don't imagine the Russians would have particular luck recruiting ordinary Chechens just eight years after leveling Grozny. Although I could be wrong: stranger things have happened in history, and I don't know what the ordinary Chechens thought (or currently think) of the ChRI as compared with the Russians. ExOttoyuhr (talk) 16:55, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 3 March 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 20:29, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kadyrovtsy → Kadyrovites – English name. AFreshStart (talk) 10:36, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong support per nom. "Kadyrovites" is used in several sources [1] [2] [3]. Super Ψ Dro 22:16, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support  The English translation makes the nature of the subject more transparent to readers unfamiliar with it. Supports WP:CRITERIA of recognizability and naturalness. —Michael Z. 22:04, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The current name (Kadyrovtsy) is a transcription from Russian language, no need to copy it if an appropriate term of the same meaning exists in English (and more intelligible, as Michael pointed out). --CiaPan (talk) 08:36, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This article is completelymisleading under this name, its not just this unit[edit]

The word mean all the armed followers of the Kadyrov clan, generally organized into various police formations (Ramzan himself was made a general of the police). Make a separate article about this unit and rewrite the article. 5.173.15.47 (talk) 06:41, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There was also no Kadyrov "militia" in 1994, Akhmad had only some personal bodyguard (one or more) and a driver (who was the teenage Ramzan) just like many other separatist officials. I just stopped (and ended) reading this article and it is just horrible, probably should be rewritten just completely from scratch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.15.47 (talk) 06:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Corrigé[edit]

La République tchetchene d'ichkeri n'a rien avoir avec kadyrov et sans armée au contraire il sont on guerre 77.204.197.182 (talk) 19:33, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming the article to "141st Special Motorized Regiment" as this is the correct name for this unit under the National guard of Russia[edit]

Proposing to change the name of the article from "kadyrovites" to "141st special motorized regiment". This is the proper name for the unit under the national guard of russia. Furthermore not all kadyrovites belong to the 141st special motorized regiment. Ola Tønningsberg (talk) 17:39, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming the article to "Chechnya’s Security Forces"[edit]

This name would make the most sense, since it is not just individual units like the others, or a simple name for armed, ethnic Chechen men. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uwdwadafsainainawinfi (talk • contribs) 23:11, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Chechen security forces" have existed before the Kadyrovs even came to power. That's including the separatist police (MVD) and their own KGB-renamed, but also the pro-Russian police of Beslan Gantamirov (main rival of Kadyrov I) in 1994-1996 and later since 1999 until 2001 or so, as well as others like the local (ethnic Chechen) peeosnnel and entire special units of the FSB, until the FSB was evicted from Chechnya by Kadyrov II. The regiment info should be simply split out into a separate article, and this one should also be thoroughly rewritten to be factual (like how there was no such force in any shape or form whatsoever until 1999 at the really very earliest). Other official Kadyrovtsy units existing currently include the Chechen OMON special police, the SOBR police commando unit Terek, various more or less regular cops, and detachments of the so-called "Russian military police" sent to Syria, among others (and of course the ever more mobilized forces sent to Ukraine too, beginning in 2014 with "Chechen volunteers" for the separatist forces including the Death Battalion). Originally, they were a "presidential security service" for Kadyrov I while led by Kadyrov II (who was the first to abdicate the republican presidential title after he replaced his dad, since then followed by all the "heads of the republics" as they're called now). And there are many thousands of them, as can be seen in their various mass rallies with weapons and matching uniforms in stadiums and squares, but only a part of then is formally organized into official units and a part is informal and fluid. 5.173.113.62 (talk) 23:15, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kadyrovtsy article in Russian (a list of Kadyrovtsy units with their own articles)[edit]

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кадыровцы

For instance, the article of only the 141st Regiment: [4]

If it's needed to reiterated: all members of the 141st are Kadyrovtsy, but only few Kadyrovtsy are members of the 141st.

It's like the article Bolsheviks isn't about some randomly selected Bolshevik unit but the entire movement.

The world Kadyrovtsy (not "Kadyrovites", also in English - see "Kadyrovtsy" in Google Books) has been in use since around 2000, and the 141st was only formed in 2017 (while for example the 78th regiment[5] was only formed in September 2022).

5.173.81.130 (talk) 20:02, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both are in use, but Kadyrovtsy does have higher usage shown in Google Books Ngram.[6]  —Michael Z. 08:57, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, "141st Regiment" can be made a redirect to this page (no one objects), but splitting this page would not work. Here is description of their forces operating in Ukraine [7], and they do not fit such split. Yes, you are welcome to create the suggested sub-pages about the subdivisions of Kadyrovites. Note that Special Battalions Vostok and Zapad were different detachments, not "Kadyrovites" but rather "anti-Kadyrovites" My very best wishes (talk) 21:53, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's NOT the old Vostok and Zapad, it's the Kadyrovtsy units [Direction]-Akhmat, such as the Zapad-Akhmat (West-Akhmat) ~~independent~~ battalion under the Russian Defense Ministry (https://tass.com/politics/1633019). Again, see the Russian list of the various units, under the disambiguation-style article https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кадыровцы - this English article here is like pretending all Maoists was just a randomly chosen one People's Liberation Army unit (or Stalinists was about only some one NKVD division, and so on). And don't revert my split and rewrite tags again. This article is so stupidly misleading it must at VERY least split this regiment content to another article and rewrite the lead here and eventually the article itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.41.160 (talk) 12:44, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And the article that you linked as "not favouring such split" (https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/chechens-putins-loyal-foot-soldiers) is actually pretty good description of how it should be split. The bolded part is what English Wikipedia pretends is the total of the Kadyrovtsy forces, the unbolded are some of the others:

Kadyrov’s forces at the start of the war in Ukraine were understood to include the following:

OMON ‘Akhmat-Grozny’ – a form of specialised police often used in riot control or as paramilitaries.

The 249th Separate Special Motorised Battalion (SMB) ‘South’ of the 46th Separate Operational Brigade of the Russian National Guard.

The 141st Special Motorised Regiment ‘North’ of the 46th Separate Operational Brigade of the Russian National Guard.

SOBR ‘Akhmat’, the most elite formation of the Chechen special forces. Previously, it was called ‘Terek’.

The forces also appear to include a number of units assigned to the Ministry of Internal Affairs with responsibility for guarding Chechnya’s oil fields and Kadyrov’s home village of Tsentoroi.

In July 2022, Kadyrov formed a new regiment called the 78th Motorised Rifle Regiment and named after Akhmat Kadyrov, which consisted of four conventionally armed battalions named according to the points of a compass. By September, the regiment was reported to be fully staffed and assigned to Russia’s 42nd Motorised Rifle Division. A Russian SMB typically consists of around 500 personnel, while a regiment consists of approximately 2,000. So, between the 249th, 141st and 78th, Kadyrov could be expected to field 4,500 personnel – not including the other specialised formations.

The 141st and now the 78th Motorised Rifle Regiments are the only formations equipped with armoured fighting vehicles such as the BRT-80 series infantry fighting vehicle, which is armed with a 30 mm automatic cannon. This means that they can be employed for conventional military tasks such as offensive actions alongside regular Russian units. The remainder are confined to small arms and lightly protected vehicles, which effectively relegates them to rear echelon duties or light support of conventional offensives by other Russian units.

There have been units set up since the publication of this article (2022).

Then there also now-defunct forces, like the once infamous Oil Regiment and of course Ramzan's original force, the Presidential Security Service.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.41.160 (talk) 12:51, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source[edit]

A potentially useful source on Kadyrov and his forces, including during the Wagner mutiny:

 —Michael Z. 18:02, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 November 2023[edit]

The name of this page is misleading. It should be named '141st Special Motorized Regiment'. Because 'Kadyrovites' mean all the forces that are loyal to Ramzan Kadyrov. There are several forces loyal to Ramzan and 141st Special Motorized Regiment is one of them.

All the members of 141st Special Motorized Regiment are Kadyrovites, but all the Kadyrovites aren’t part of 141st Special Motorized Regiment.

In Russian Wikipedia, this page links to ru:141-й специальный моторизованный полк имени А. А. Кадырова (141st Special Motorized Regiment). And there is a separate Russian page named ru:Кадыровцы (Kadyrovites), which describes all the units loyal to Ramzan Kadyrov.

It is more accurate presentation and it should be done in English Wikipedia too, to create two separate pages, as 'Kadyrovites' and '141st Special Motorized Regiment' aren't exactly the same things. Ragnarvrollo (talk) 10:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ragnarvrollo I’m not 100% sure about this. I think you have a point but this is something called the Bonnie and Clyde problem. More an issue of wikidata than an issue of Wikipedia. I think someone else will be able to explain better though since I’m basically about to pass out from doing so much editing today. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 10:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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