Talk:Jim Croce

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Sudden Death[edit]

This article could use a little more info about the plane crash. I checked the NTSB report that's linked to in the article, and it says calm winds, 5 mile visibility, but likely cause due to pilot not noticing trees and flying into them. It also refers to the pilot's physical impairment due to coronary artery disease, but doesn't say explicitly whether or not the pilot had a heart attack. The remark in the report says "PLT HAD SEV CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE.RAN FRM MOTEL TO NEAR ARPT,ABT 3MI."--which means what? JimmyTheSaint 06:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of theories and info on accident was in lawsuit, this is the appeal http://openjurist.org/623/f2d/1084/croce-v-bromley-corporation

Para 3 "The circumstances surrounding the airplane crash and the cause of the crash were hotly contested at trial. There was conflicting evidence as to whether the pilot's negligence for example, his failure to perform a full preflight check of the aircraft or his taking off downwind into a "black hole" or his having had a heart attack was the cause of the crash. Taking off at night, the plane was airborne only a short while before crashing."

Para 14. Vandenberg (commercial, multiengine, instrument pilot) testified that "Natchitoches is the worst (black-out area) I have ever seen" and that a pilot taking off at night to the south "would fly into a black void.""

Note 15. Vandenberg was also an accident investigator for the Natchitoches sheriff's office. Moreover, he had landed at the Natchitoches airport only 20 minutes before the airplane crash. He was thus well qualified to discuss the particular conditions existing at Natchitoches airport on the night of the crash, as well as the more general characteristics of the airport

Note 11. "Dr. Reals testified that he believed the pilot had suffered a heart attack"

Note 11. " pilot, a frequent jogger, unable to secure transportation to the airport, began jogging toward the airport, some three miles away, shortly before flight time. Eventually, he was picked up by local police, interrogated, driven to the airport, and released."

Note 12. "As opposed to a heart attack, Dr. Gibbons proffered the theory that, based on his extensive experience, the crash was caused by the pilot's suffering a spatial disorientation as a result of his taking off into a "black hole.""

Note 12. " Dr. Reals also admitted that his examination of the pilot's heart revealed no evidence of dead heart tissue or fibrosis (scarring); nor was there any evidence of "prior cardial infarct.""

Note 13. "The parties stipulated that "(p)ost-crash examination of the wreckage revealed no evidence to indicate material failure or mechanical malfunction of the aircraft prior to impact.""

I'm an instrument pilot and night disorientation is very real. The pilot was an ATP (the top rating) had 15,000 hours, 2000 in the aircraft. He should have been well skilled to handle the transition to instruments. But things go wrong and people make mistakes, or get casual flying over flat land. He also may have been rushed and stressed.

98.223.3.29 (talk) 23:36, 7 June 2011 (UTC)posted 6-7-11 C Pilot[reply]

The official site has been taken down. -- Dave C.talk | Esperanza 20:43, 4 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently not. And the dining at the resaturant is quite ok. (Don't have any shares in the business)

Sad to say, as per this article, it's closed now. I think partly due to... the sitting arrangement, placement of chairs n tables and having to walk thru the restaurant to get to the music area, in the back up against a big brick/concrete wall.

The A. J. Croce article says that A. J. is Jim's only child, but the Jim Croce article mentions a daughter Heideh. Can anyone clear this up? Moleskiner 03:21, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

also I don't understand the sentence 'Recently, his widow, Ingrid, was allowed to obtain from Jim's daughter Heidieh the permissions for all of his songs' - I don't understand the 'allowed to obtain the permissions' aspect - my guess is that the wording is wrong and that I'd understand it if it was worded correctly. Scatterkeir 13:46, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jim only had one child, A.J. I have no idea where the person got that Heidieh information. Plus, I'd like to think that I'm a big enough fan to know if he had more than one child!

He only has one child. I'm positive of this as I have been told by his sister in law. (I'm best friends with Jims nephew and am quite close to his sister in law and mother in law.) Inhumer 02:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i live in san diego.. on and off since 1966. Met & have known Ingrid since early 1980's, A.J.'s her/their only kid.

Heidieh[edit]

Heidieh does exist. The name was used to vandalize a bunch of Croce articles and country singer articles. Remove it on sight. --Falcorian (talk) 03:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On November 20, another IP came back and added the Heidieh stuff to his article and to my talk page (editing someone else's comment). Watch out again. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 17:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And they just did it again over the last few days... --Falcorian (talk) 18:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

I'd like to know how to pronounce "Croce". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.188.172.165 (talk • contribs) .

I'd say either "Crose" or "Cro-chay." Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's "Cro-chee." Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 02:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's pronounced "Crow - She" at least that is how Jim pronounced it on the History Channel show about him in one of the interview clips. Raphjd 05:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The correct Italian vowel sound hard to replicate in English, but the pronunciation "CRO-chay" is very close. The only difference is that final vowel in Italian is shorter than in this English approximation. Italian is much more precise than English in its vowels and spellings, which accounts for the confusion among the English readers of this Wikipedia page.

The pronunciation "Cro-chee" is just plain wrong. That sound would have to be spelled "Croci" in Italian. Though this is is the common American pronunciation, it is NOT correct. The "shi" sound described below is also obviously wrong. Italian spells the "shi" sound with the "sci" letter combination.

There is no confusion over the correct pronunciation to Italians. The name Croce is well known to Italians because of the famous politician Benedetto Croce who lived 1866 to 1952. I would like to think that Jim knew how to pronounce Italian like an educated native speaker, however this is rarely the case among children of Italians raised in America. If Italian Americans grow up speaking any sort of Italian at all it is usually a regional dialect, not standard Italian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.57.157 (talk) 05:30, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I've removed the bit about how to pronounce it until a source can be provided. --Falcorian (talk) 06:21, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you really need to consult an expert please make sure that you at least talk to a native Italian speaker who teaches the language professionally. What ever you do, don't rely on some idiot who has read a few pages from the Rick Steves phrasebook. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.57.157 (talk) 00:04, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neither a native Italian speaker, nor someone who read Steves passes WP:RS. Even more so when you account for the fact that no matter how Italians pronounce Croce, the correct pronunciation is his own. Still would need a RS though. --Falcorian (talk) 02:17, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I hope no offense is taken by this statement, but your attitude that the correct pronunciation is his own really could only be taken by an American who does not know Italian. Your statement really sounds silly for a number of reasons. First of all there is no way to ask a dead man how he would like his name pronounced. Second just because English is very inconsistent in its use of vowels is no reason to assume that other languages share the same confusion. Third, if I spelled by name S-M-I-T-H and insist that is is pronounced "Jones" you would think I was wacko. But yet it makes just as much sense to spell a name "Croce" (CROW-chay) and insist that it is pronounced "Croci" (CROW-chee.) You should not allow your ignorance of Italian to dominate the discussion here. The fact is that there is a single correct way to pronounce the name, regardless of what the dead man says. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.57.157 (talk) 09:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You caught me, I'm an American! You still haven't provided a source. --Falcorian (talk) 16:03, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here are two sources that describe the sounds of the Italian letter 'e'. The 'e' in 'Croce' is the long e sound described in the first article. This sound is always written with an e that has no accent mark. Please read through ALL the information in the first source.

The second source has sounds you can hear by rolling your mouse over the letters inside quotation marks. You will discover that both Italian 'e' sounds are quite similar to speakers of American English and neither one sounds anything like the English long 'e' sound as in "CROW-chee." That sound is always written in Italian as 'i'. Compare the sound of 'i' to both of the 'e' sounds and you will understand.

http://italian.about.com/cs/pronunciation/ht/pronouncevowels.htm

http://www.fonetiks.org/sou2it.html

Those are not sources referencing Jim Croce, and therefore if anything would fall under WP:OR. --Falcorian (talk) 03:06, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong! These are articles that discuss the pronunciation of the name "Croce" and therefore include names such as "Jim Croce" which include the name "Croce." Take a look at the discussion page for the article on "Benedetto Croce". The folks over there have not had any argument at all over the pronunciation of the name "Croce." Then compare to the pronunciation of the native Italian speaker at the link below.

http://forvo.com/word/benedetto_croce/

Are you trying to argue that the singer's name should be pronounced differently than the politician's? What sense does it make to suggest that one Croce is different from another? I am trying to be objective. But you are arguing for a biased interpretation of the pronunciation while pretending not to have an opinion. That is ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.57.157 (talk) 19:24, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm arguing that you have not provided any source that deals with the pronunciation of Jim Croce's last name, nor have you provided a source saying it is pronounced the same as these other Croces. --Falcorian (talk) 19:32, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Now here is a source dealing with this articles Croce. This is what I was asking for. --Falcorian (talk) 19:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's unrealistic to believe someone born and raised in Philadelphia would pronounce his last name the same way as someone born and raised in central Italy, even if they are spelled the same way. I'll add IPA pronunciations to both this article and Benedetto Croce (and they won't be the same!). —Angr 21:29, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You have not provided any evidence at all to show that the names "Croce" and "Croce" should be pronounced differently. You have merely made an assumption without citing fact or documentation. this is entirely inconsistent. You suggest to English speakers of the name "Benedetto Croce" that they should use the Italian pronunciation, but to English speakers of the name "Jim Croce" they should use an entirely different set of rules based on a misunderstanding of how to speak Italian. My original point still stands; It is possible to come very close in English to the correct pronunciation of "Croce" but you insist on using an lazy and incorrect one. What language are you really trying to speak here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.57.157 (talk) 23:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you insist on pronouncing the names inconsistently the least you can do is to clearly explain that one is an American pronunciation and that the other is an Italian pronunciation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.57.157 (talk) 00:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I provided a source on how the name is pronounced in English (this is the English Wikipedia after all). You have done no such thing, and continue to revert to "But that's not how Italians would pronounce the name", which is beside the point. --Falcorian (talk) 00:18, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You have missed my original point several times now. I also provided many examples of how "Croce" is pronounced in English. Your example is of how to pronounce "C-r-o-c-i" in English. It is possible to pronounce the name in English in a way that is close to accurate, but some uneducated folks insist on certain type of English pronunciation that is WAY, WAY OFF. You simply ignored the many sources you did not like and inserted the first one you found that backed up the view you already held. What happened to objectivity here? Again, the least you can do is clearly mark the English pronunciation as English, so as not to confuse those who are unable to understand the difference.63.224.57.157 (talk) 00:26, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Merriam Webster dictionary is as American as you can get. They are the ones that changed all of the British spellings, i.e. "colour" to "color." Well guess what? Websters says that I AM THE ONE WHO IS RIGHT!!!!!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixcro01.wav=Croce 63.224.57.157 (talk) 00:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We're not debating a generalized Croce though, we're debating Jim Croce's name, which the source I provided addresses, and which the sources you provided do not. It does not matter how oddly he pronounces it compared to the original Italian.
Further, I did not pick the first source that agreed with my opinion. My opinion has always been (Please, read up a few lines, it's there) that we should find a source, and the one I provided was the only one I found dealing with this issue that wasn't a blog. --Falcorian (talk) 19:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia page for Frank Zappa includes correct and precise details about the original Italian and the American English pronunciations of his name. However, the editor(s) of this page insist on including only the popular American English pronunciation of "Croce." The confusion could be cleared up once and for all if Croce fans were willing to admit that there are 2 possible pronunciations. The editor of the Zappa page did not require a reference for either of his pronunciations. Insisting on adding pronunciation references to this article is an inconsistent and artificial requirement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.131.175 (talk) 07:23, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a video of Jim pronouncing his own name (CROW-chee): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YtM52f0kU — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evidlo (talk • contribs) 03:02, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Possible False Entry[edit]

On July 22nd 24.88.94.168 added the following sentence: Many people do not know that the only reason Jim Croce was performing the show in Louisiana is because he was forced to cancel the appearance at an earlier date due to illness. That IP vandalized [1] a few other pages and I don't believe there's any truth to the contribution. I've removed it from the page.

The above statement is actually true. As far as I know, Jim had previously canceled that particular tour, due to illness. This was a "make up" tour that was booked BEFORE he had achieved the great success that he had finally achieved in the last few months of his life. He could have opted out of the tour, but being the good, kind and caring person he was, he didn't want to disappoint his fans.

Lawsuits[edit]

Why are there no mentions of the lawsuits that surrounded Jim Croce and his music, royalties, etc? There have been at least 2 lawsuits by Ingrid {which she won}. [2]

Scroll down to page 4 and look at "Related Cases".

[3]

[4]

Notice Ingrid refers to "lawsuits" in the interview.

[5]

Sorry, I'm new here so I don't really know the best way to format all of this. Raphjd 06:25, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, Ingrid did NOT "win" the lawsuits. The only real winners were the lawyers who made a fortune on both sides of this case! It's ashame Jim's widow would accuse Jim's friends of ripping him off. In the end, it was determined that Jim and his family received their fair share of royalties and the lawsuit was frivilous.

Citations & References[edit]

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 08:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quotes[edit]

Per Wikipedia policy, all quotes need to be referenced. I started to add a request for cites on the two quotes included here, but decided to just delete them for now since they were not particularly enlightening anyway. If anyone has some illuminating quotes with citations, feel free to add them into the article (preferably in the applicable section of the article rather than a seperate quotes section). Jgm (talk) 11:48, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong and bad info on I GOT A NAME[edit]

The I GOT A NAME album was not released until December 1973. If you do your homework, you'll find that Jim only just finished recording it 8 days before he died. It's almost impossible that any album could be recorded, mixed, sweetened, not to mentioned pressed in that short a time span. Terry Cashman and Tommy West finished producing it as if Jim were still alive, according to them.

I'm 50 years old now, I was 15 when Jim died...I waited MONTHS for that album to be released after his death. The cover photo was changed as well...the ORIGINAL cover was supposed to be the photo that was used inside the album...the one with Jim lying on the bed, smoking his cigar. One of the news channels in New York showed a picture of it (and his other albums) the night after he died, I saw it with the same I GOT A NAME logo on it on tv.

Now the SONG I GOT A NAME might have been released sooner...it hit the airwaves right after Jim died. That was from the movie THE LAST AMERICAN HERO, later renamed HARD DRIVER.

I will find further proof/documentation to support these facts, and edit this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misterweiss (talk • contribs) 17:08, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From the discography page on the official Jim Croce site at: http://www.jimcroce.com/discography.shtml , I Got A Name ABC Records ABCX-797 (December 1973)

Jim’s third and last album for ABC Dunhill released posthumously included “I’ve Got a Name”, “Roller Derby Queen, and “Workin’ at the Carwash Blues” as well as one of his favorite ballads, Operator (That’s not the way it Feels”).

Don't worry, I'll find more proof...this is just the beginning. I'm right and I know it, because I was there... (misterweiss) BTW, they were wrong about ROLLER DERBY QUEEN being on that album...doesn't ANYONE know anything about Jim Croce?

Ok, this is from the same site and I paste and quote>>>

"I Got A Name was Jim Croce's third album in two years and the last before a plane crash in Natchitoches, Louisiana took his and his guitarist Maury Muehleisen's lives. Peaking at #2 on the album chart, the record includes a pair of hits, I'll Have To Say I Love You In A Song and the title track. Released the day after his passing, I Got A Name, reached #10 on the pop chart. Prior to this reissue, the album has been out of print for almost a decade!"

If you READ that correctly, the SONG I Got A Name was released the day after his death and reached #10 on the pop charts. The ALBUM reached #2. Read it slowly. I think this is where whoever wrote that part of the Wiki article got their info from. Don't worry...more proof is on the way. (misterweiss) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misterweiss (talk • contribs) 17:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, here's MORE proof. From the site "The ABC Records Story" on their ABC-Paramount Album Discography pages, part 7 and I paste and quote: "ABCX 797 - I Got A Name - Jim Croce [1973] (12-73, #2) I Got A Name/Lover's Cross/Five Short Minutes/Age/Workin' At The Car Wash Blues//I'll Have To Say I Love You In A Song/Salon And Saloon/Thursday/Top Hat Bar And Grille/Recently/The Hard Way Every Time"

They too say the I Got A Name album was released in December 1973. I'll fill this article with factual footnotes to prove this point when I edit it. (misterweiss) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misterweiss (talk • contribs) 17:52, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here we go...MORE proof. From CMT's discography page. They say I Got A Name (album, not CD) was released and I qoute and paste: "Released: December 1, 1973" (misterweiss) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misterweiss (talk • contribs) 17:59, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Time in the Army?[edit]

There is no mention of his time in the army. The Bad, Bad Leroy Brown Wikipedia article mentions that he was in the Army at one point, stationed in Fort Jackson, S.C. Also, Croce himself provides this information on Track 12 of the Jim Croce Live CD (Have Your Heard - Jim Croce Live). Someone on the website Songfacts

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2250

says that Croce joined the National Guard, but Croce's story on Track 12 suggests he may have been drafted: he says he received a brown letter signed by a General. Does anyone have the facts on this? Ileanadu (talk) 02:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The site maintained by his wife Ingrid Croce say the following: "[...] even enlisted in the U.S. Army. He didn't have a very illustrious military career, but says he's prepared if there's ever a war where we have to defend ourselves with mops." --Falcorian (talk) 17:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Plane he crashed in[edit]

Does anyone know what type of plane he was in that crashed? 24.189.90.68 (talk) 06:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No portrait?[edit]

Anyone know where to find a suitable free image? —Gaff ταλκ 20:28, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Croce's Military Service - Proposal to modify article due to likely factual error – Comments?[edit]

The article states that in 1968 Jim and Ingrid Croce moved to NYC and later returned to Philly after he became disillusioned with the music scene in NYC. After working at a radio station he became frustrated and enlisted in the Army. Then the article states that in 1970 Croce met Maury Muehleisen who began to back Coce on guitar, seemingly alluding to the fact that he resumed his musical career after military service.

The time frame here seems narrow. Exactly how long had Croce been in the army? I was in the military not long after this period and during the Vietnam War period one could be drafted into the Army or Marines (the Navy, Coast Guard and Air force never had to draft because of all the young men rushing to enlist to avoid the more dangerous service of the ground forces) for two years, but as I recall the minimum enlistment period was for three years. From how the article reads, it seems doubtful that there is even a two year period available to account for Croce’s army enlistment.

Before reading this article, I wasn’t even aware he had ever served in the military, which is odd as I am from Philly and have always been a huge fan of his music. The article alludes to a rather inglorious military service period for Croce, and I wanted to know if anyone had more details. Was Croce discharged early and, if so, why? Thanks. HistoryBuff14

—I’m sorry but when I made this inquiry I missed an above question similar to my own. This poster provided a link that states that Croce had enlisted in the National Guard in 1966, not sometime in 1968 which the article alludes to, at least. I think the 1966 date (due to age considerations; he probably avoided being drafted earlier by reason of a college deferment) and the National Guard information seems far more likely. Croce could have served two years active duty in the Army and then National Guard “weekend warrior” duty for a period afterwards. Thus, he moves to NYC with his wife in 1968 which would be timeframe compatible and more logical.

Do any agree that the article should be changed to reflect the more probable information? True, the link is just from a forum poster, but there seems to be no source at all for the seeming 1968 enlistment assertion as the article reads now. As I said, everything points to the forum poster (whatever his or her source) being more accurate. Thanks. HistoryBuff14

Nothing should be added on this subject unless there is a reliable third party source for the information as per Wiki requirements.THX1136 (talk) 01:02, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wording in Death section[edit]

This part doesn't sound right at all: "A later investigation, source unknown, placed sole blame for the accident on pilot error due to his downwind takeoff into a "black hole". Well, there is a source attached, presumably the basis of the claim in the text. It is an appeal court decision, which is fairly primary as far as sources go, so it should be treated with caution, and "an appeal court ruled" used when necessary. And in this care caution in the wording is needed - it was not a "later investigation", it was expert testimony for the plaintiffs in a lawsuit. And the plaintiffs didn't "[place] sole blame" on the downwind takeoff, they list several factors. (#14 in the judgement part at the bottom) I'm not sure we should be presenting this at all, does the court actually rule on those points somewhere? I can't find it. And it needs some rewriting anyway I think, if there are some regular maintainers here. :) Franamax (talk) 01:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

“the third posthumous chart-topping song of the rock era”[edit]

I’m not certain the point that is being made here, for what seems a rather dubious achievement: what constitutes the “rock era” (I’m sure it has to be open to debate and interpretation)? And which chart is being used? Buddy Holly (who isn’t included in the list of names used in this article) had a posthumous number one in the U.K. in 1959, with “It Doesn’t Matter Any More”, years before Otis Redding and Janis Joplin. I think the article could probably lose the fact, without diminishing the information on Croce, but at least should be clarified and cited to make it more encyclopædic. Jock123 (talk) 16:37, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have an answer to what constitutes the “rock era” but I agree on the re-phrasing, I think simply remove "of the rock era" that would seem to work. Mlpearc (open channel) 16:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reason for writing "Time in a Bottle"[edit]

The text says

"Time in a Bottle" (written for his then-unborn son, A. J. Croce[citation needed]).

This was confirmed by A. J. Croce's comments during a concert given in Rochester, MN on May 6, 2016.drh (talk) 03:02, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the parenthetical statement as there is no reliable third party source cited for the information. Wiki guidelines require sources for this kind of info. Using a source as mentioned by Danhicks above would be considered OR unless there is a visual or written record that has been published with a quote from A.J. Croce to that effect.THX1136 (talk) 01:11, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation of Name[edit]

On one of Croce's appearances on the Dick Cavett Show, Cavett asks him how he pronounces his name, and he reponds KROH-chay, not KROH-chee. There is a YouTube video of this entitled "Operator Performed by Jim Croce on the Dick Cavett Show," posted August 6, 2014 in the upperdarbybill account. The song performed is "I Have a Name," although it's not indicated in the YouTube title. The interchange occurs at the 4:00 point.

On the other hand, on the Helen Reddy show she introduces him as KROH-chee right in front of him, so he didn't seem to care enough about it to bother to give a heads-up to television staff before appearances.

Perhaps the best solution is to give chee as the commonly used pronunciation, but note that he himself used chay, at least in his private life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.226.99.227 (talk) 06:31, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jim was correct, or at least as correct as you can be as a typical speaker of American English pronouncing an Italian name. As an American who speaks Italian I too find the common mis-pronunciation of Jim's surname quite annoying. Years ago I tried to draw attention to this and fought with a Wikipedia editor who obviously didn't speak Italian. The editor of the Benedetto Croce article got it right. The editor of this article could never explain why there is a different pronunciation shown for the same name. A similar example is Gianni Versace. The final syllable sounds like "chay" but it is actually a much more clipped sound in Italian, more like "che". English speakers are quite lazy with vowels, while Italians are precise. It's useless to argue with editors who think they are experts but are not.75.172.213.218 (talk) 00:49, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another example of a Wikipedia article that shows two different pronunciations for an Italian American name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Iovine There is no reason why the correct Italian pronunciation cannot also be added to this article, especially since we have now confirmed that Jim pronounced his name both ways.04:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.213.218 (talk)

How was burial place arrived at?[edit]

I see he's originally from Philadelphia, but how did he come to be buried in Frazer, Chester County, also in southeastern Pennsylvania? His name showed up when I was reading wikipedia article about that Frazer. Carlm0404 (talk) 01:03, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tribute Songs[edit]

A couple that I know of are Gino Vannelli's "Poor Happy Jimmy" from Powerful People (1974), and Claudine Longet's "Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye" from her single "Who Broke Your Heart... / Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye" (1974). AMCKen (talk) 01:47, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Any chance of FA status and a Main Page mention for his 50th Anniversary?[edit]

Tagging major contributors to the page (Fnlayson—WikiWikiWayne—MallonsTalons—Sensei48—FlightTime—John B123—El cid, el campeador—Thunderbuster—ElmStreetsLastBrat—Vmavanti) in the hope that fitting recognition might be made on Sept 20 for the 50th anniversary of his death. What musical delights and works of genius were we robbed of? Kevin McE (talk) 11:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't been a major contributor to the page myself, so I am not entitled to put it forward for a review of what is neded to get GA or FA status. Kevin McE (talk) 11:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks but a couple edits recently do not make me a major contributor. Featured Article status is a big step from its current Start rating. Improving this article needs to be done in steps, like adding references and filling in content where needed. Go for B level and then Good Article level first. Best of luck. -Fnlayson (talk) 13:48, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know too much about the article subject, except I've been a fan forever. If there's anything I can help with just ping me or poke me on my talk. Cheers, - FlightTime (open channel) 16:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am also a big fan, but only a minor contributor to this article. I would happy to help with some editing, though. I agree that FA status is a tall order, but I think a Did You Know (WP:DYK) nomination is within reach if there is a noticeable expansion to this article. ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 16:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Photo date[edit]

The Commons info on Ingrid's photo dates the photo in 1968 so why does the caption in the article say 1972? 216.24.45.40 (talk) 16:00, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

religious conversion[edit]

We now have an unsourced claim that Croce was Catholic, because somebody said that we need to know what he was before he converted to Judaism. Most likely, the claim he was Catholic is just an assumption based on the fact that his parents were Italian. But he didn't convert to Judaism because he had any particular religious beliefs, he did it for love. He may well have been an atheist. Would a devout catholic forsake his religion just to take on a bride? Fabrickator (talk) 16:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingrid's book seems to establish that his family was Catholic, and contains a quote of Jim saying But as a Catholic, I'm not supposed to doubt.p.87 Schazjmd (talk) 16:43, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's also a statement to the effect that he poked fun at organized religion.
There's nothing that makes clear the seriousness of his devotion to Catholicism. (That he was willing to forsake it suggests "not very", and that's consistent with other statements in that source.) The fact that he converted to Judaism is significant, if only to show that he was willing to go through the effort to please his fiancée (or otherwise meet her requirements to agree to marry).
Anyway, It's not as though you actually have to convert from a religion to convert to Judaism. It would appear that his Catholicism did not influence his life in any particularly notable way, and I am hard-pressed to see how there is something wrong with stating that he converted to Judaism without stating what he was before. Fabrickator (talk) 17:44, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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