Talk:Ivan the Terrible and His Son Ivan/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: PCN02WPS (talk · contribs) 00:01, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi there, I'll be reviewing this nomination shortly. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 00:01, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Subject and historiography

• If "Tsarevich" is a title, the first sentence should probably read "The details of the Tsarevich's death..."

Contemporary Russian sources

• "the Tsar himself wrote that 'he cannot go to Moscow because of his son's illness'" → I think that brackets would be appropriate around [he] and [his], as it would be unlikely that the Tsar would be writing about himself in the third person.
• "In the summer of 7089" → I ask this out of genuine curiosity - is this a typo or is a different calendar system in use?
• "However, the dates vary." → Makes more sense to me to specify that the dates that were reported varied.

Foreign testimonies

• "...a French mercenary captain in service in Russia, writes that..." → sounds better to me to use "wrote", in the past tense.
• Antonio Possevino does not need to be linked after the quote as it is linked in the prose used before the quote.

Stories of Russian historians

• "18th-century Russian historian..." → WP:NUMNOTES advises against starting a sentence with a numeral, but I'm not sure how well that applies here.
• Nikolay Karamzin does not need to be linked after the quote as it is linked in the prose used before the quote.
• Block quote needs to conclude with a full stop.

Background and inspiration

Political violence

• "Russian Tsar Alexander II of Russia" seems redundant, I'd remove one of the two bolded words (emphasis is mine).
• There are no closing quotation marks at the end of the quote beginning "how he had witnessed the public execution..."
• A word is missing when listing the works devoted to the Pervomatovsty: "Refusal of confession ("Отказ от исповеди" (1881)), Arrest of a propagandist ("Арест пропагандиста" (1882)), and Unexpected visitor ("Не ждали" 1884-1888))."
• I'm not sure whether "Pervomatovsty" or "the Pervomatovsty" is correct but I would be consistent with whichever you use - both are used in this subsection.
• "He also returns several times in his memoirs on this period of his creations" → This sentence doesn't make a ton of sense to me - do you mean that he returned to Saint Petersburg several times after April 1881, and that he documented these trips in his memoirs? I also am not sure what "on this period of his creations" means, though perhaps this is merely a comprehension issue on my part.
• In this subsection, "tsar" is given with both an uppercase and lowercase initial letter - I think the uppercase is correctly used in the case of "Tsar Alexander II" but the title alone is used with both caps (uppercase in the second paragraph and lowercase in the subsection's final sentence); I believe lowercase is correct when just using the title but I could be wrong.

Music of Rimsky-Korsakov

• I'm not sure that Antar needs quotation marks as it is italicized.
• I cannot find on the above linked article for Antar that "vengeance", "power", and "love" are the actual names of the final three movements, so I don't believe they need to be italicized.
• "It is the music of Antar's bloody second movement, Vengeance, that inspired Repin the most." → As above, I'm not sure that this needs to be capitalized or italicized if it isn't the actual name of the second movement; perhaps give its proper name and describe that it is the one that reflects vengeance?
• The line of the block quote beginning "In Moscow in 1881..." needs to conclude with a full stop.

Trip to Europe

• "the one seeping from the Tsarevich's temple" → what does "one" refer to? It seems to refer to blood, which doesn't sound right in the singular.
• "Such representations are uncommon in Russian art" would be a good place for a citation.

Creation

• Not necessarily something wrong, just me being curious again - is it common for painters to refer to paintings in the female (as in, "But something pushed me towards her...)? I've never heard this before.
• "...while the accessories, throne, mirror, and kaftan, were painted at the Kremlin Armoury. → add "and" before "kaftan" and remove comma after "kaftan".
• "While the landscape painter Vladimir Menk..." is a sentence fragment, I'd recommend changing the full stop after "Blaramberg" in the previous sentence to a comma and changing "while" to a lowercase in order to combine the sentences.
• "replies" sounds better to me in the past tense, "replied".
• I'm not sure if the fact that this is within a quotation makes a difference, but "tsarevich" is lowercase here whereas it is uppercase in much of the rest of the article.

All other sections to follow and will be completed in the near future:

Analysis

Moment represented

• "Although the painting is sometimes called Ivan the Terrible kills his son, Repin" → caps here does not match the caps in the first footnote (in the lead), where "Kills His Son" is capitalized.
• The first paragraph of the subsection has tense issues, "Ivan the Terrible picked up his son" is in past tense while "...weeping, gently waves his hand" and other parts are in present tense. To remedy this, I would recommend changing "picked up" to "holds", as he isn't picking him up in the present tense.
• "the sceptre with which the Tsar struck his son's temple, is in his hand in the first..." → comma after "temple" is unnecessary
• "The bloodstain, where the Tsarevich's head rested on the ground, very visible in the oil sketch that Repin made in 1883, and which he kept and resumed later, is erased in the shadows of the final painting." → Comma after "bloodstain" is unnecessary, and I'd add "which is" before "very visible in the oil sketch", to make the sentence a little easier to understand.
• "But the painting also shows..." → I'd either add to the end of the previous paragraph or remove "but" at the start of the sentence.

Description and composition

• "The two characters, three quarters, are..." → What does "three quarters" refer to here?
• "...which Repin has studied and admired" → I think removing "has" would make more sense tense-wise.

Colours and material

• "and that" is used twice in the first sentence of the subsection, I'd perhaps reword that to avoid the repetition.
• "the tsarevich" (lowercase) is used in the second paragraph, while "the Tsarevich's" (uppercase) is used in the third paragraph.

A representation of power

• The comma after "...of Alexander II" is unneeded.
• "On the other hand, French critics approach it." → This is technically not a sentence fragment but doesn't make a ton of sentence just on its own.
• "the tsarevich's self-immolation by the tsar" → This doesn't really make sense to me - does this refer to the painting? Self-immolation is the practice of burning to death after setting oneself on fire, which the painting does not depict. If this is part of a larger idea (perhaps what you mean by "a central scene of the Russian myth") then I would expand upon that context.
• "and his death as a result of the tortures he suffered" → "torture" would sound better to be as a singular, rather than a plural.
• "Repin painted a second version of Ivan the Terrible and his Son Ivan" → "His" is capitalized in the article title but is lowercase here.

Reception and imperial censorship

• "and others; According to Repin..." → "according" does not begin a sentence so it does not need to be capitalized.
• Several dates in the last paragraph should be converted to "dmy" format.

Vandalism and controversies

• Several dates, including the one in the full title of the painting, need to be converted to "dmy" format.
• "The attacker was imprisoned for two and a half years in prison." → Should be reworded to avoid repetition (emphasis is mine).

References

I spot-checked some of the English language sources (No. 10, 23/25, 27, 37, 39, 40, 41) and they look good. Unfortunately I am unable to read the Russian and French sources, but glancing at many of them, they appear to meet WP:RS and WP:V. No issues with sourcing from me.

• References 23 and 25 are the same source material but cited to a different page; these could be combined by changing the "page" parameter to read |pages=211–212 if you see fit.

Discussion

• Hello. I've implemented most changes you recommended. Few clarifications:

1) "In the summer of 7089" is not a typo, it is what the original text says ("Лета 7089-го государь царь и.."), so the chronicle is most likely using a different calendar system.

2) I didn't touch the "18th-century Russian historian..." since I don't think "Eighteenth-century Russian historian..." looks that good. If you think it should be replaced, then let me know.

3) I've removed "Such representations are uncommon in Russian art" since I couldn't find the citation for it. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 15:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I suppose then that the "7089" is not an issue, I was curious and looked it up and I suspect that the so-called "Mundane era" calendar was in use. Don't worry about the "18th-century", I agree with you that the way it is now looks better than "eighteenth-century" written out. I've left comments on the last parts of the article, so I'll place it on hold, no rush. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:45, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

@PCN02WPS: I've implemented the latest changes. Let me know if there's anything else that could be improved. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 20:43, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

This looks great to me; the changes look good and I'm happy to pass as a GA, well done! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 00:03, 3 January 2022 (UTC)