Talk:Iran–Israel proxy conflict
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1978 Iranian politics, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Iran–Israel proxy conflict, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.
|
This level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org |
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 20 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 1 section is present. |
Open warfare[edit]
Recent developments suggest a significant escalation from what has traditionally been characterized as a proxy conflict to more direct military engagements between Iran and Israel.[1] In the Iran–Israel proxy conflict the article reads “This is the first direct military confrontation between the two countries since the beginning of the Iran–Israel conflict.”
Given these developments, I believe it may be necessary to reconsider the title of or make a new article to ensure it accurately reflects the current nature of the conflict.
I would also like to note the date format, as technically the proxy war is over, should the date say 16 February 1985 – 1 April 2024? LuxembourgLover (talk) 02:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- The proxy war is over. As of this writing Israel has not struck Iran. We wait on events. kencf0618 (talk) 03:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- As of yet, I wouldn't consider it an end to the proxy conflict, since the Al-Asad Airbase retaliation for the Assassination of Qasem Soleimani didn't lead to a direct conflict between the United States and Iran. But this is still recent, nobody knows about the possible escalations that could follow suit. Christophervincent01 (talk) 04:14, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- With additional strikes being made by both sides, I think the "proxy" part of the contlifct is over. LuxembourgLover (talk) 15:48, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 15 April 2024[edit]
It has been proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved. A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}} . Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
- Iran–Israel proxy conflict → Iran–Israel conflict
- Russia and the Iran–Israel proxy conflict → Russia and the Iran–Israel conflict
Iran and Israel are now attacking each other directly, and in the past they have carried out cyber attacks, direct covert operations and other actions other than supporting proxies. Therefore, the title is not correct and needs to be changed. Parham wiki (talk) 19:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Cfls (talk) 21:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nomination. This is a hot war now and no longer a proxy war. RS even acknowledge this directly ("Analysis | By attacking Israel, Iran turns shadow war into direct conflict"). The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:09, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - we have a separate article for the ongoing direct conflict in 2024, so we should ask ourselves whether we want to cover the proxy conflict separately or not. – Asarlaí (talk) 21:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - also, might I suggest Israeli–Iranian or Iranian–Israeli, to match Israeli–Palestinian conflict, Israeli–Lebanese conflict and Arab–Israeli conflict. – Asarlaí (talk) 21:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Whatever the new title is, the current one is no good because it's no longer just a only simple "proxy war". Therefore in favor of support removing "proxy" on title of article. That of 2024 is just a new phase and battle. 5.91.127.57 (talk) 13:42, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose both The scope of the Iran–Israel proxy conflict article is far bigger than just the direct conflict starting this year, going back to 1985. In addition, we already have an article titled 2024 Iran–Israel conflict, so there is no need to make another one. The Russia and the Iran–Israel proxy conflict does not cover the direct conflict between Iran and Israel, but rather the proxy conflict many years before the direct one, so a move does not make sense. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- As we assess this, we may want to reevaluate whether "Iran--Israel proxy conflict" is even a framing that's actually supported by RS. Reading through an arbitrary selection of the article's sources, I'm not seeing examples of sources themselves calling conflict between Iran and Israel a proxy conflict--at most, they describe some groups as Iranian proxy groups (meanwhile, there is only one group identified as an Israeli proxy, which has at most engaged in a handful of targeted assassinations). We can't infer this lens of describing the conflict simply from the presence of proxies, that would be WP:OR. signed, Rosguill talk 14:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: change the date to 16 February 1985 – 1 April 2024. LuxembourgLover (talk) 17:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom, particularly since one side acts directly and one side uses proxies Alexanderkowal (talk) 02:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Changed to Oppose both Alexanderkowal (talk) 16:58, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support – Due to the escalation of the conflict. Svartner (talk) 12:11, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose both: the scope of this article is the description of almost 40 years of conflict operated mostly indirectly, so not a "direct conflict" as the renaming would imply. The fact that in these days things may escalate does not change this substantial aspect, nor it justifies renaming arbitrarily the past. Eventually, this relabelling for 1985-2024 period, would be up to future historians, not up to us living things directly as they happen. Furthermore, for the time being the conflict has not yet assumed the characteristics of a direct conflict. Even in the unlucky case things between Israel and Iran get worse, this article deserves an existence on its own, with the current title. It is the detailed background leading to today's situation, that would turn into something totally different if it turns out into a real direct war (hopefully not). If that would be the unlucky case, that should be described on an article totally apart. Changing the title, or at least, doing it now, would be hasty. We don't even know how things will evolve, we cannot predict the future and state, as for things are today, that "there is already a real conflict and all the past we considered as "proxy" has suddenly become a direct conflict".--Superspritz (talk) 13:05, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think the points made here need to be refuted before any change Alexanderkowal (talk) 13:08, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose both: the outbreak of direct conflict between Iran and Israel doesn't mean that the proxy war never was a proxy war, it means the proxy war has ended. If the Cold War went hot, I doubt the article on it would be called US-USSR conflict. The scope of this article should remain on the years of indirect warfare which led up to the current conflict, anyway.
- ZionniThePeruser (talk) 16:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose both: per @ZionniThePeruser rationale. There is already the article 2024 Iran–Israel conflict, that documents the current conflict, which could be renamed to Iran–Israel conflict in the future if the conflict continues beyond 2024. Also per @Superspritz comment, this article documents the history of the proxy conflict, whereby the content hasn't suddenly changed due to the current conflict/crisis.
- Suggestion: Add hatnote to aricle for 2024 Iran–Israel conflict for people who want to read about the current conflict and not the proxy.
- CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 16:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose it's too soon to make this change based on recent events. Additionally, if events escalate, this article should still be kept in-place; if the USSR and the US went to war in the 80s, it's not like we would've renamed the "Cold War" article. Elli (talk | contribs) 23:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose both Even if this became a "hot war" renaming this article and making the last four decades of proxy conflict moot would not be the correct path. The better way (if it is deemed to become a conflict which I have serious doubts on) would be to have this article cover 1985 to 2023 and then a new article on the conflict itself. Yeoutie (talk) 15:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia articles under general sanctions
- B-Class vital articles
- Wikipedia level-5 vital articles
- Wikipedia vital articles in History
- B-Class level-5 vital articles
- Wikipedia level-5 vital articles in History
- B-Class vital articles in History
- B-Class Iran articles
- Mid-importance Iran articles
- WikiProject Iran articles
- B-Class Israel-related articles
- Mid-importance Israel-related articles
- WikiProject Israel articles
- B-Class military history articles
- B-Class Middle Eastern military history articles
- Middle Eastern military history task force articles
- B-Class Post-Cold War articles
- Post-Cold War task force articles
- B-Class International relations articles
- Low-importance International relations articles
- WikiProject International relations articles
- Requested moves