Talk:International recognition of the State of Palestine

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the International recognition of the State of Palestine article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3: 30 days

Palestine High‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Limited recognition Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Limited recognition, a WikiProject dedicated to improving the coverage of entities with limited recognition on Wikipedia by contributing to articles relating to unrecognized states and separatist movements. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join our WikiProject by signing your name at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.Limited recognitionWikipedia:WikiProject Limited recognitionTemplate:WikiProject Limited recognitionLimited recognition articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

International relations Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

This article is written in British English with Oxford spelling (colour, realize, organization, analyse; note that -ize is used instead of -ise) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of International recognition of the State of Palestine was copied or moved into Palestine 194 with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

140[edit]

Would be good to compare the list mentioned at:

Lederer, Edith M. (2024-04-03). "Palestinians seek full UN membership again, but US is almost certain to block it for a second time". AP News.

…to the list at this article. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not 140 of 193 UN members. It's 138 of 193 UN members plus 2 non-UN members (Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic and Vatican City) Please, correct it. Fernan860 (talk) 15:03, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 April 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Since Barbados has recognised Palestine today, these changes should be made.

Change " As of 4 April 2024, 140[clarification needed] of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine." to " As of 19 April 2024, 141 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine."

And Barbados should be removed from the "No diplomatic recognition" table, and added to the "Diplomatic recognitions > UN members states" table with a line inserted like this: 139 Barbados 19 April 2023 Yes CARICOM, OAS

Sources: https://gisbarbados.gov.bb/blog/barbados-officially-recognises-palestine-as-a-state/ https://starcomnetwork.net/blog/2024/04/19/barbados-to-recognize-palestine/ Jlayne001 (talk) 01:33, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Semsûrî (talk) 08:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry but I have recounted the countries, and shouldn't it be "As of 19 April 2024, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine."? The Holy See and SADR aren't even UN members. Underdwarf58 (talk) 13:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See this discussion, some disparity in the sources (pre-Barbados) as to whether it was 139 or 140. Selfstudier (talk) 17:04, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree. I think the next UN link: https://web.archive.org/web/20180927134802/http://palestineun.org/about-palestine/diplomatic-relations is the best source. It can be seen that in 2018 there were 137 UN States (including Vatican City/Holy See). After the recognition of Colombia, Saint Kitts and Nevis and now, Barbados (which do not appear on that UN list because it is not updated), there are 140 UN States (139 of the 193 full members plus Vatican City/Holy See)

By example, The New York Times says " 138 countries and the Holy See have recognized the State of Palestine." (before Barbados' recognition) (see https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/18/world/middleeast/palestinian-statehood-un-veto.html)

Other sources (before Barbados' recognition): https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67231803 https://www.visualcapitalist.com/recognition-of-palestine-map/ Fernan860 (talk) 20:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, Here it cites Mansour saying "Mansour said these matters are urgent, following a veto by the US on a resolution to accept the State of Palestine as a full member of the United Nations. "When they vote on these resolutions they recognise the rights of the Palestinians, but we are asking them to recognise the State of Palestine as an existing reality.” He said to date, 141 countries have recognised Palestine as an independent state - Barbados has recently announced plans to officially recognise the State of Palestine." Selfstudier (talk) 18:47, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mexico recognized Palestine[edit]

When I searched "Why Mexico has yet to recognize Palestine," sources pop up saying that Mexico does recognize Palestine. Here's one article: https://jacobin.com/2023/07/mexico-amlo-israel-palestine-embassy-diplomacy . Correditor56 (talk) 05:30, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Recuerda que a pesar de que nuestro país mantiene relaciones diplomáticas con Palestina, no ha reconocido un Estado palestino y sólo se han firmado algunos acuerdos;" - Coordinación de Comunicación Social - INICIO - Senado. 26 July 2021 Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:59, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the recognition confusion re Mexico is more recent than that. It might be that Mansour in the section above is including Mexico in the 141 count, idk. Selfstudier (talk) 10:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As of October 2023, Mexico did not recognize Palestine[1]. Semsûrî (talk) 10:40, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This piece in the Jacobin contradicts that (btw that Telediario source says "Whether Echeverría Álvarez underestimated or unaware of the power of the Jewish community within the financial sector, in Hollywood and in the media in the United States,.... which is usually considered as an antisemitic trope).

We still need to figure out the 140/141 discrepancy, whether it be Mexico or something else. Selfstudier (talk) 10:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mansour does not explicitly state 141 "UN members" which could mean he includes the Holy See? Jamaica is counted as 140th UN member here[2]. Semsûrî (talk) 11:04, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of discrepancy, there's also some ambiguity surrounding Malta as they are planning on recognizing Palestine (again?).[3] Semsûrî (talk) 11:07, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the confusion may stem from the difference between recognisig a state (recognising its sovereignty) and recognising a government (accepting it as legitimate, i.e., maintaining diplomatic relations). Vide Afghanistan for instance which is recognised as a state by nearly all countries of the world, but its current government is recognised only partially. Not all journalists may understand the difference, either. — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's true but if you check the other discussion, there are several RS also using the higher figure. Selfstudier (talk) 11:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I need some help. I edited the Arabic version of this article by adding Mexico with the same references but some user named Mystrixo reverted it by saying to me that "Mexico hasn't officialy recognized Palestine yet. What was said about the matter was from the Palestinian side only". Can anyone please convince him? Underdwarf58 (talk) 06:24, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Needs to be sorted out there, even though the annex to the UN letter includes it (see the section 140/141? below), so there is a case for including it, there is arguably a case for excluding it. It isn't a requirement for Mexico to officially announce it, some countries don't do that but it seems to me that if Mexico has allowed SoP to establish an embassy (so the ambassadors credentials have been accepted) then that is some sort of recognition even if backhanded (see the Jacobin article). Selfstudier (talk) 10:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trinidad & Tobago recognition of Palestine yesterday[edit]

List of countries recognizing Palestine should be extended, as of yesterday (May 2 2024) to Trinidad and Tobago, source: https://foreign.gov.tt/resources/news/recognition-by-trinidad-and-tobago-of-the-state-of-palestine/ Aintgotrhythm (talk) 12:16, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We should update this article because recently they recognise Palestine as a sovereign state. Qhairun (talk) 12:25, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

140/141?[edit]

This 9 April letter lists 140 countries, including Mexico and the Holy See. The latter is an observer state, so 139 if we include Mexico.

Adding Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago since then gives 141.

Can we agree on this figure? Selfstudier (talk) 11:42, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you recheck the link? It sends me to an error page. Semsûrî (talk) 11:48, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, cannot go to it directly, you can instead reach it via https://undocs.org/en/A/78/846. Selfstudier (talk) 11:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well 141 it is. Semsûrî (talk) 12:06, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Give it a day or two, see if anyone else has anything to add. Selfstudier (talk) 12:17, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The document should be enough to add Mexico to the list. Semsûrî (talk) 12:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Semsûrî If Mexico is added to the table of countries that recognise Palestine, it must be removed from the table of countries that do not recognise it. Or, am I missing something? — kashmīrī ^TALK 12:34, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, disregard, you've self reverted now. — kashmīrī ^TALK 12:35, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you remove the reference that showcased that diplomatic relations existed between Mexico and Palestine? Semsûrî (talk) 12:38, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone fact check whether or not Mexico recognised Palestine as a sovereign state? Qhairun (talk) 13:31, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring[edit]

@Semsûrî: You've violated the 1RR restriction by making several reverts today:

Please self-revert at the very least to the edit in which I correctly formatted the large table in the "No diplomatic recognition" section. This was quite a lot of time and effort, and your revert only to add Mexico (which was additionally a controversial edit on your part) was quite disruptive. Thanks. — kashmīrī ^TALK 16:46, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding Mexico back to the non-recognition list was not deliberate. In one of your edits, you (perhaps accidently) removed the sre.gob.mx from the Diplomatic recognitions-list which was my issue. Can you link to the version you want the non-recognition list to be at? Semsûrî (talk) 17:00, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I might have made a minor mistake, and frankly I don't care that much whether Mexico is in or out at the moment. What I'd like is to get the whole formatting and templates back, like in this version: [7] Thanks! — kashmīrī ^TALK 17:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bahamas as well[edit]

https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/143850 Selfstudier (talk) 08:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

EU Member States Recognition Initiative May 21st[edit]

Perhaps worth mentioning in the non-recognition infoboxes for Ireland, Spain, Malta and Slovenia for now, before adding them to the recognising nations when the announcement is formally made? ^[1] Culloty82 (talk) 11:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, best to wait until they actually do it. Selfstudier (talk) 11:42, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This source says Slovenia will do it in June. Selfstudier (talk) 17:14, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0508/1448093-ireland-palestinian-state-recognition/

[1] ttps://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0508/1448093-ireland-palestinian-state-recognition/

[1]