Talk:Idiot/Archive 1

Archive 1

history

the sentence " ... defining idiots as people whose IQ were below 20 ... "

must be "below 24" not "20" anon. user. 20.April.2006

            NO! I was wrong. :) it is strange but different countries accepts different grades. for US. the true one "20". sorry :)

"Other uses" section

The "Other uses" section is a joke. It is not necessary to 'give examples' of a term that appears on every other web page of the Internet, and, for obvious reason, that section is nothing but bait for flame wars and vandalism. "Examples" of "idiot", indeed. Can anyone think of a better bait for vandalism in wikipedia than an editable "examples of idiots" section ??

Personally I think the whole section should be removed.

I removed the obvious flames, along with advertisements for rock groups. Yes, I know it won't last. At least I'll know I tried.

History error?

" "Idiot" was originally created to refer to "layman, person lacking professional skill", "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning". " Originally it stems from Greek, which is the first part of the sentence. So how does the psychological definition fit in that sentence, the second part??

Grammar

Idiot([id-ee-uht])" Defenition :(1)An opinionated word meaning fool, half-wit; imbecile; dolt, dunce, numskull an utterly foolish or senseless person.(2)an utterly foolish or senseless person

Origin:1250–1300; Gk iditēs private person, layman, person lacking skill or expertise, equiv. to idiō

---

References

grammar

Definition : 1. word meaning an utterly foolish or senseless person. 2. fool, half-wit; imbecile; dolt, dunce, numskull, (idiot[id-ee-uht])–noun opinionated

Origin: 1250–1300; ME < L idiōta < Gk iditēs private person, layman, person lacking skill or expertise, equiv. to idiō- (lengthened var. of idio- idio-, perh. by analogy with stratiōtēs professional soldier, deriv. of stratiá army) + -tēs agent n. suffix idiot c.1300, "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning," from O.Fr. idiote "uneducated or ignorant person," from L. idiota "ordinary person, layman," in L.L. "uneducated or ignorant person," from Gk. idiotes "layman, person lacking professional skill," lit. "private person," used patronizingly for "ignorant person," from idios "one's own" (see idiom). Main Entry: id·i·ot Pronunciation: 'i-dE-&t Function: noun clasification;opinion

---

References

"Quotes" section

Someone needs to move that to wikiquote. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DocRocks1 (talk • contribs) 02:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Idiot lights

"Idiot light" is still a term and has not "fallen into disuse." Words like "phylactery" and "shamefastness" have. But idiot light is still a word used among motor enthusiasts and by those who remember the term's popularity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.43.79.22 (talk) 19:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

Bob Smith quote

I'm working on the Robert Smith disambiguation page, and found out that in this article there's a quote by a Bob Smith, but it doesn't say which Bob Smith or where he said that. So I took out the link and added a "citation needed". But there's a comment above that suggests moving the entire Quote Section to Wikiquote. Any opinion? --PeterCantropus 17:33, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Christ

Nietzsche characterized Christ as an idiot. In his The Antichrist, Nietzsche claimed that Christ was extremely detached from the world that was around him. This resulted in a naïve idiocy. In Part 3, Chapter 3, Dostoevsky wrote that Prince Myshkin, the idiot, "…seemed to have forgotten all the world" or "He seemed oblivious of the whole universe." This characterization may have influenced Nietzsche's use of the word to describe Christ.Lestrade 16:34, 23 August 2007 (UTC)Lestrade

Even if Nietzsche did "claim that Jesus was as an idiot", I find there to be something wrong with a person choosing to present his own words as evidence, when providing quotes would be more effective. I fail to see how claiming anyone to be "detatched from the world" is the same as claiming him to be "an idiot". That the latter is [i]implied[/i] or [i]caused[/i] by the former, does not mean the latter is ever [i]claimed[/i] (as the article says). To claim that Dostoevsky's characterization may have influenced Nietzsche's use of the word is as true as claiming that it may have influenced Nietzsche's use of scissors to trim the hair under his nose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.195.72.122 (talk) 16:06, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Distracted by the superior intelligence of Lestrade's argumentation, I didn't at first notice the now available quotation (numbered 15). I only possessed the H. L. Mencken translation, so I accept the quotation as sufficient evidence. I admit it, I'm an idiot, and I don't plan to apologize for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.195.72.122 (talk) 14:58, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Apple lover - iDiot

the term iDiot is widely used now to describe emo Apple lover, using iPods, iMacs and iPhones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thebiggestmac (talk • contribs) 07:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

First I have ever heard that term used. Do you have a citation? - Fearless Son 22:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

New Jersey

Removed 'idiot' from constitution. should be removed from article? tildetildetildetilde

About time. Perhaps about 99% of New Jerseyans were probably barred from voting by that language, but nobody noticed it. ;-) 204.52.215.107 05:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC) ("Idiots" were among the people not allowed to vote under the old language.)

Oaf

I removed the redirect for OAF. And oaf was an actual type of person in the old days, like a "fool" was a person that amused royalty. It was an actual job title that became a word 4.143.227.109 (talk) 21:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)eric

I've moved this recently added section from the top to the bottom.

I still see the redirect at Oaf, but perhaps that is due to sever-update lag. I'm not arguing against the removal, but would point out this refuting source. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

From the Greek letters

For what it's worth, here's the word meaning from the meaning of each Greek letter.

i/d/i/o/t/e/s= arises with/ arises/ arises/ heir (conclusion) with/ decision/ come (together)/ dies.

So the person is not instructable, or more simply, untrainable.

You can look at the meanings of Greek here, if you care to look at the concept. [1]

That is, unless you're also not trainable.... :) --No938 (talk) 02:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Imbecile is spelled incorrectly

In the 'Disability' section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathbal101 (talk • contribs) 14:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

20 or 30?

On the savant syndrome page is says that "idiot" formerly referred to a person with an IQ of under 20, here it says 30. 216.185.233.102 (talk) 16:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page (see WP:TPG). If you want to ask a question, please see the Wikipedia:Questions page for guidance.

I did look at both articles, though. I don't think that there is a conflict.

The Savant syndrome article says, "During the late-19th and early-20th century, "Idiot" was a scientifically acceptable term to refer to a person whose IQ was less than 20.", citing a supporting source not available in full online except on payment of a fee.

This article says, "IQ, or intelligence quotient, is determined by dividing a person's mental age, as determined by standardized tests, by chronological age. The term 'idiot' is sometimes used to refer to people having an IQ below 30.", citing a couple of sources which are partially previewable online.

this book says <30

this book says <25

this book says <25

this book says <25

this book says 20-25 and a mental age <= 5

this book says <20

this book says an idiot never learns to talk

Pick a definition you like ... or don't. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Main definition or modern usage addition

I would like to suggest the following addition to this page under the main definition (versus history or a modern usage stub) as this usage increasingly becomes more mainstream:

Walter C. Parker's article "Teaching Against Idiocy," in Phi Delta Kappan (January 2005, v86 n5 p344) has slowly led to a resurrection of the word's etymological origins amongst social studies and civics educators across the United States as a way to frame and discuss problems with modern American republican democracy:

Idiocy shares with idiom and idiosyncratic the root idios, which means private, separate, self-centered -- selfish. "Idiotic" was in the Greek context a term of reproach. When a person's behavior became idiotic -- concerned myopically with private things and unmindful of common things -- then the person was believed to be like a rudderless ship, without consequence save for the danger it posed to others. This meaning of idiocy achieves its force when contrasted with polit[macron]es (citizen) or public. Here we have a powerful opposition: the private individual versus the public citizen.

Could we please add a section that refers to the dual meaning of the term (the emerging one versus the denotative one) in the main definition section?

Breadncircuses (talk) 16:10, 19 October 2009 (UTC)Breadncircuses

See also addition

Could we also add a reference to Bread and circuses in the "See Also" section?

Breadncircuses (talk) 16:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)Breadncircuses

---

IDIOT

Noun 1. an utterly foolish or senseless person. 2. Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

Origin:

1250–1300; ME < L idiōta < Gk iditēs private person, layman, person lacking skill or expertise, equiv. to idiō- (lengthened var. of idio- idio-, perh. by analogy with stratiōtēs professional soldier, deriv. of stratiá army) + -tēs agent n. suffix

Synonyms: 1. fool, half-wit; imbecile; dolt, dunce, numskull, Sepp Blatter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.63.208 (talk) 20:32, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page moved.  Skomorokh  11:01, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

---

Idiot (person) → Idiot — "Idiot" was a disambiguation, but all entries were variations of The Idiot plus a few See alsos, so I changed the disambiguation to The Idiot. Now Idiot is simply a redirect to Idiot (person), and obviously this is the primary understanding of the word. — The Man in Question (in question) 02:20, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

• Support Idiot should link to this article. 02:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ridernyc (talk • contribs)
• Support per nom. I think the dab page would be better at Idiot (disambiguation) rather than The Idiot (which probably should be the Dostoevsky novel), but that's not the issue we're discussing here. Tevildo (talk) 11:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
• Support Idiot by itself refers to the personal mental attribute rather than literary works which are based on this attribute. I also agree that the dab should be returned to Idiot (disambiguation) and that the lead to that should direct people primarily to Idiot (once the dab has been removed from Idiot (person)) then list all the novels etc. The Idiot should probably lead directly to The Idiot (novel), though that is for another discussion to decide. --Jubilee♫clipman 17:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
• Support, mostly per above. I see no point having Idiot redirect to Idiot (person), where Idiot is not a dab. Also, this usage is far more common than The Idiot; people searching for "idiot" are likely to be searching for this page, so they should be sent to an article titled "idiot". — The Earwig @ 19:52, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Also support Tevildo's suggestion - no reason that can't be done by closing admin if everyone agrees, but if not we should open a request there once this closes. Station1 (talk) 20:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

  Indeed. The Idiot (novel) → The Idiot makes sense. I still don't see the point in Idiot (disambiguation) instead of The Idiot (disambiguation) though, since all the entries contain The. So I would say: Idiot (person) → Idiot; The Idiot → The Idiot (disambiguation); and The Idiot (novel) → The Idiot. — The Man in Question (in question) 21:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

• Ah, good point. There is nothing to dab with Idiot, per se, but plenty with The Idiot (caps on both words). --Jubilee♫clipman 04:26, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
• I would support The Idiot (disambiguation), as well. The existing Idiot (disambiguation) should redirect there, of course. Tevildo (talk) 21:28, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
• Yes, that makes the most sense. Station1 (talk) 05:29, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

American Idiot

Shouldn't this be mentioned on the idiot page?

For a March 2005 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Idiot

---

Not to be confused with 'Imbecile' - which defines far lower intelligence and is harder to spell. I think we can expand this quite a bit. The history of the idiot would be quite interesting. - Ta bu shi da yu 00:33, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree - it shouldn't be moved to wiktionary (or at least it should only be copied). Thue | talk 11:09, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I learnt in ancient greek in school that idiot in ancient greek just meant "private man", not more, not less. thats all. all the negative connotations came up later. this is an important fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.110.167.224 (talk) 20:32, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

introductory paragraph is poor and needs a complete rewrite

The intro suffers from a number of problems. A few of them:

"...or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way." I really don't think this is part of the definition of "idiot", it sounds more like someone's take on what might be the major consequence or sign of being an idiot. This does not belong here.

"The synonymous terms moron, imbecile, and cretin have all gained specialized meanings in modern times." I have to assume this refers to the Goddard or similar classification of different low IQ levels by various terms like "moron," "imbecile," and "idiot." If so, this sentence incorrectly implies "idiot" is not one of these terms, though it is. The phrase "have all gained" implies these specialized meanings have currency, however they are outdated.

"An idiot is said to be idiotic, and to suffer from idiocy." Is it really valuable to demonstrate all the different parts of speech stemming from the word "idiot"?

"More humorous synonyms..." Well, some of these may be intended to be humorous, however for many this is not clear.

"A dunce is an idiot who is specifically incapable of learning." Um, no, I don't think this specialized meaning for this word is supportable. It certainly isn't reflected in the dictionaries in which I've looked. I think someone is making a leap from one particular historical application of the word "dunce" as a way of punishing students by making them wear a cap with this label.

"An idiot differs from a fool (who is unwise)..." While I think a case can be made that "fool" implies poor judgment vs low intelligence, the idea that the term "idiot" has to specifically mean low intelligence would seem to be the author trying to make these terms more clear cut than they are. It is not unusual to hear term "idiot" used with the same meaning as "fool" and the dictionary supports this usage ("a person who fails to exhibit normal or usual sense, discrimination, or judgment" from the Merriam Webster Unabridged Dictionary). --Ericjs (talk) 14:54, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Eejit

Is this just a bastardisation of idiot? I had heard it before, and thought it a seperate word. Does anyone who how it came about?82.75.218.105 (talk) 15:23, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

You don't mention where you have heard this one, but Wictionary defines this an Irish variant of idiot; no source is given. http://Dict.org, http://dictionary.com, and http://m-w.com have nothing. / edg ☺ ☭ 16:05, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes that's what it means ok. Eejit is just a local mispronunciation of the word 'idiot' over here. It's very common and it's been going around for as long as I can remember. It's not really as strong as calling someone an idiot, much milder, it's more like calling him a fool. One of the dictionaries suggests that it has found its way to Scotland too. - Peadar, Dublin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.255.46.251 (talk) 18:16, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Arkansas

Arkansas removed the idiot language in 2008. Here's the link to the Sec. of State's page - proposed Amendment #1. http://www.votenaturally.org/2008_ballot_08_const_amendments.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.76.230.159 (talk) 05:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Intelligence Citations Bibliography for Articles Related to IQ Testing

You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Intelligence Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human intelligence and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library at a university with an active research program in those issues (and to another library that is one of the ten largest public library systems in the United States) and have been researching these issues since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 02:30, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

iQ

This article states: "IQ, or intelligence quotient, is determined by dividing a person's mental age, as determined by standardized tests, by their actual age." While this was true originally, IQ is now relative to a normalized scale. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.61.140 (talk) 18:43, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

My long standing understanding is that the derivation from the greek referred to franchised citizens, in Athens in particular, but in similar polities elsewhere who were only concerned with their private (idiosyncratic) affairs and were generally ignorant of and disengaged from the political and intellectual life of the Polis. What's there now appears to be a confabulation of some sort. Lycurgus (talk) 22:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

"Idiot as a word derived from the Greek idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill," "a private citizen," "individual"), from ἴδιος, idios ("private," "one's own")... does not explain why it was an insult. This must be corrected. Loosely it's because all Athenian citizens were expected to be law makers and participate in the assembly (congress) maintaining their government...thus be "public" minded, not to be exclusively private-minded.

This may help:
Idiot (Athenian democracy): ...An idiot in Athenian democracy was someone who was characterized by self-centeredness and concerned almost exclusively with private--as opposed to public--affairs.[1] .... Declining to take part in public life, such as democratic government of the polis (city state), such as the Athenian democracy, was considered dishonorable. "Idiots" were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters.

Athenian democracy: ...some 30,000 will have been the adult male citizens entitled to vote in the assembly. In the mid-5th century the number of adult male citizens was perhaps as high as 60,000, .... Greek democracy created at Athens was a direct, not a representative democracy: any adult male citizen of age could take part, and it was a duty to do so.
--67.125.107.247 (talk) 19:50, 5 June 2011 (UTC)Doug Bashford

Goya's Bobalicón?

Why is this picture here? Its context is unexplained in the article. It is unmentioned in Goya's article. The work itself has no article. And the image page itself has no explanation either. 96.28.157.126 (talk) 22:08, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 9 March 2012

The disability section states that IQ is determined by dividing mental age by physical age. This is incorrect - I would request a change of "IS" to "WAS".

158.48.133.1 (talk) 19:31, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done Seee [2]. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:39, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Permitted from voting?

Do they acctualy enforce laws in the US to prevent "idiots" from voting? That isn't exactly democracy. So i doub't it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.160.45.109 (talk) 12:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I doubt it. That would imply testing for mental competency as a prerequisite for voter registration. However, an assertion that there is no enforcement of relevant laws should probably cite a supporting source. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 14:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Clearly not, and they're not prevented running from office either. Look at the last two presidents, and all of Congress. 96.54.81.60 (talk) 06:48, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

A Person From Judea

the etymology of the word idiot is really a person from Iodea, Ancient Judea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.11.51 (talk) 07:37, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes ... except no. 62.196.17.197 (talk) 12:32, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Protection

Why is this article locked? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.199.25.9 (talk) 23:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Due to the high prevalence of self demonstrating articles. 62.196.17.197 (talk) 12:34, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Or perhaps due to the high percentage of self-demonstrating editors. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Re: Greek origin of Idiot

Extract from article in question:

word is derived from the Greek word ιδιωτης, idiôtês, "a private citizen, individual", from ιδιος, idios, "private". In ancient Athens, an idiot was a person who declined to take part in public life, such as democratic city government. Since such activities were honorable and could directly affect all citizens, idiot was a term of derision.

This is not my paragraph. The original editor evidently took the material from/or wrote the material in Athenian democracy. Since the root of the word is Greek (see your dictionary insert), I simply restored this material after your unexplained deletion. I also copy edited your material to make your edit blend with the previous article. Wiki protocol suggests that if you wish to delete a block of material for cause, move it to the discussion page and explain why. This allows the original editor to respond, and to defend if necessary. Peace. WBardwin 15:37, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Added "Idiot Lights" to Other Uses Grumpyoldgeek 05:48, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Which means (or applies to), for those that do not know, the warning lights on a vehicle's dashboard, specifically the "check engine" and/or "oil" lights. My theory on the reason to call those lights is the reaction to a (usually) wife or child that has driven the vehicle around ignoring the light, risking and sometimes destroying the engine as a result. The "idiots" in this case, are the people that are given a light to indicate impending disaster, and ignore it. It probably applies to any other warning system where a light is used to indicate possible trouble or malfunction.Jonny Quick (talk) 19:35, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

 Isn't idiot, "without political knowledge" in Greek?

This source says: idiot — c.1300, "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning," from O.Fr. idiote "uneducated or ignorant person," from L. idiota "ordinary person, layman," in L.L. "uneducated or ignorant person," from Gk. idiotes "layman, person lacking professional skill," lit. "private person," used patronizingly for "ignorant person," from idios "one's own". -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

What is "O.Fr."?? And what is "c.1300"?? The cited article doesn´t seem to be in chronological order. So the "person so ..." might not have been the original meaning.

It means that the word "idiot", meaning "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning" dates from circa (approximately) the year 1300. It is in turn derived from the Old French word "idiote" (meaning "uneducated or ignorant person"), which in turn was derived from the Latin word "idiota", which ultimately came from the Greek "idiotes". Those are all fairly standard dictionary abbreviations. Wardog (talk) 12:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I would like to challenge some of the language and the concepts conveyed in the section giving the Athenian perspective of "idiots", as it seems to be very slanted towards the idea that Athenians considered all idiocy (non-participation) to be immoral but it doesn't say to whom this moral judgement applied. Plato asserted the idea that there was a class that was best suited to govern, which then naturally creates a class of idiots (non-participants, or at least those that should not participate). Given this, if Athenian idiots self-select themselves out of the governing process, would all of Athenian society think that was wrong? This has direct bearing on today's cultural values and political outcomes, as it seems that everyone thinks that everyone should vote, and no one says (out loud) that some people shouldn't vote. And then they point to an Athenian past as documented here on Wikipedia to support this notion (that anyone that does not participate in the governing of society is immoral), and (if one is a "little r" republican) one might believe that today's serious problems are the natural result of unrestricted access to political power. Note, I'm not making comments in order to provoke a forum-like discussion, I am asking 1) Does anyone else think that allowing a possibly false assertion into the Wikipedia article that non-participation in Athenian governance was considered immoral by everyone and applied to everyone amounts to political and philosophical bias today (democracy vs. republicanism)? and 2) If so, is it worth either researching for a more comprehensive substantiation of the assertion, additional text to provide a counter-balance of the assertion, or deleting the comment/notion entirely? I'd also like some clarity in the article as to whether or not idiocy was an "act of doing" (non-participation) or "state of being" (being stupid). Hope this makes sense to someone.Jonny Quick (talk) 19:23, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Also see the entry on Ryan Sloan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.93.186 (talk) 19:50, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 June 2013

ridiculous inclusion in your "used as profanity" section. seriously? idiot. 66.222.97.246 (talk) 18:27, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Cleaned up. -- Alexf^(talk) 21:22, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what was "cleaned up". But the "used as profanity" section is a bit silly. One sentence says nothing, the other something off topic. Not sure what to do about it.

86.154.152.170 (talk) 08:58, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect statement that idiots cannot vote in UK elections

The reference about British common law barring idiots from voting in UK elections is outdated. This was repealed by s.73(1) of the Electoral Administration Act 2006. See link:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/22/section/73 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.70.233 (talk) 01:18, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 (talk) 08:20, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

---

Idiot → Idiocy – It seems to me that it would be more encyclopedic to have a title addressing the condition, rather than the person who has it. We have, for example, Capitalism, not Capitalist (which redirects there); and Paraplegia, not Paraplegic (which redirects there). Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 12:53, 4 August 2014 (UTC) bd2412 T 17:39, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

• Sure thing Red Slash 02:09, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
• Support per nom. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:34, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
• Comment the term "idiocy" would seem to refer to acts of idiocy more than the medical condition of idiots. I think that there should be separate articles on the two. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 05:39, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
  • I think any discussion of acts of idiocy would be included at Stupidity, since there is no difference between acting with stupidity and acting with idiocy, or a dozen other synonyms. bd2412 T 15:15, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. While I agree with the suggested principle, it does not apply in this case. This is more of a Wikipedia:Articles about words than about the medical condition: it starts with etymology of word "Idiot", then briefly discusses (outdated) medical use of the term (where "idiocy" could be legitimately applied), then again covers the usage of "idiot" in legal contexts and literature. So, some 90% of the article is devoted to the term idiot rather than condition of idiocy. Also, as 65.94 suggested, the term "idiocy" (a stupid act) came to be rather disconnected from "idiot" (a mentally disabled person) in common usage. Such title just does not fit the contents. No such user (talk) 14:58, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose per No such user. -- Alexf^(talk) 15:33, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2015

Abhi google translate pe bataya to ki Aman stupid hai, wikipidia pe check karna jaruri tha kya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.36.225.68 (talk) 13:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2018

I wish to change or add a meaning to this word because acording to an article called American Government - Get Out the Vote it states "Have you ever heard someone being called an “idiot”? If you have, what they are really being called is “someone who does not vote.” The word “idiot” comes from the Greek word idiotes. In ancient Greece this was the word for someone who kept to himself. Idiotes did not participate in Greece’s public life or politics. They did not vote or debate important issues." this shows that idiot has a different meaning to it. Link to article below... https://www.readworks.org/article/American-Government---Get-Out-the-Vote/f32f1941-bf4d-4beb-a64a-97521645542f#!articleTab:content/ Muligan12342 (talk) 20:49, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. First of all, the information already substantially exists in the article and reading the existing content is always a good idea before suggesting improvements. Secondly, a secondary school reading development website is probably not going to be considered a reliable source by most other editors on etymology and history. Thanks and I hope this helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:33, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Sense development of idiot

The current Etymology section repeats the story that in Ancient Greek, idiot meant not just "private citizen", but "selfish people with bad judgement" and thus "stupid people". It's a nice parable, repeated by cited sources. Unfortunately, these sources seem to be over-interpreting. In fact, the standard sources for Greek (Liddell & Scott) and English (OED) etymology document a much more straightforward sense-development: private > private citizen (not a public official or involved in public affairs) > a layman as opposed to a professional (orator, soldier, doctor, philosopher) > unskilled, ignorant, undistinguished, plebeian > stupid, mentally deficient.

Now, it may well be that there are serious classicists who sustain the parable about its being stupid to be uninvolved in public life. If so, let's cite them rather than essayists making a point about political uninvolvement in modern life. --Macrakis (talk) 17:46, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

PS I know that this parable is often repeated, but it does not seem to be correct. I am currently tracking down some additional sources about the history of this interpretation, and would appreciate any pointers that others may have. --Macrakis (talk) 18:26, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

I have corrected the article with material from A.W. Sparkes' "Idiots, ancient and modern", which debunks this claim. --Macrakis (talk) 22:18, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2018

Please add the following image: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi0.bloomjoy.systems%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F07%2FUntitled-1-7.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Freadbloomjoy.com%2F2018%2F07%2F18%2Ftrumps-face-google-idiot-ddt%2F&docid=bzw_y_9aBMmqZM&tbnid=5XkfvOBqHlIF_M%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiB8_zx16ncAhVnGDQIHRwECvkQMwicAigEMAQ..i&w=700&h=400&itg=1&bih=1173&biw=2339&q=idiot&ved=0ahUKEwiB8_zx16ncAhVnGDQIHRwECvkQMwicAigEMAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8 98.242.25.53 (talk) 22:26, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: While humorous, this isn't appropriate for the article.--Jorm (talk) 22:50, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2018

REFERENCE 8 Anthamatten, Eric (2017-06-12). "Trump and the True Meaning of 'Idiot'". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2017-06-26. IS NOT FACTUAL AND IS AN OPINION PIECE BY NY TIMES.

REFERENCE 8 SHOULD BE REMOVED SINCE IT PROVIDES NO FACTUAL INFORMATION THAT IS USED IN THE ARTICLE Justinbarbertondrone (talk) 23:16, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: The context for the reference is about political opinion, and thus fits in the section.--Jorm (talk) 23:18, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2018

On July 18th 2018, a Google search for "idiot" would bring out a picture of Donald Trump as the first result. Nailgun70 (talk) 03:26, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Wow. Is this article showing up on a talk show or something? No, we're not going to do this; it's not appropriate or encyclopedic.--Jorm (talk) 03:32, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

why is this idiotic painting on this page?

why is this idiotic painting on this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.189.142.28 (talk) 06:37, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2018

Due to google being asked about why searching idiot returns trumps picture, references to Trump should be added to the word idiot 62.6.54.74 (talk) 15:49, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 19:37, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2018

Please Add Cultural reference section: Idiot can has been used to describe the 45th president of the United States of America. In an attempt to hinder this, Republican party blamed Google saying that they were doing this on purpose. This has created the reverse affect leading to a stronger association between the Name Donald Trump and the term idiot. Thisguy1515 (talk) 23:39, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: See WP:PROPORTION. This story will be forgotten by the next news cycle and I see no need to try and perpetuate it. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 23:55, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Worthy of a "in popular culture heading"? : On December 11, 2018 Google CEO Sundar Pichai was asked explain to congress why searching for "'Idiot"' returns results heavily populated with Donald Trump. This exposure only exacerbated the trend. - http://fortune.com/2018/12/12/googles-ceo-had-to-explain-to-congress-why-searching-for-idiot-shows-donald-trump/Brad.kent (talk) 18:29, 13 December 2018 (UTC)Brad_Kent

 Not done Irrelevant in the scheme of things. May people were, and will be, top of the list on those searches in years to come. It does not merit to not a fleeting moment. -- Alexf^(talk) 18:41, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Google Results

I note that Google had to explain to politicians why Donald Trump ends up being the top results when people Google the word "Idiot." Should that phenomena be added to this article as maybe "usage in modern culture?" SoftwareThing (talk) 17:43, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

No. Irrelevant and a temporary state of affairs. -- Alexf^(talk) 19:17, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh but it would be so much fun to do it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.106.90.78 (talk) 14:38, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, fun isn't what we're about. Perhaps you are WP:NOTHERE?

I changed the indentation on your comment, I hope you don't mind. MrDemeanour (talk) 17:32, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Locked article?

It is curious what is the history of this article that caused it to need such protective measures...BryantPark43 (talk) 16:56, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 August 2019

{{Null}

164.100.149.24 (talk) 06:19, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done as no request made. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 12:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

"Eejit" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Eejit. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 25#Eejit until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 ^talk _contribs ^subpages 09:27, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

"Cooyon" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Cooyon. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 27#Cooyon until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 ^talk _contribs ^subpages 15:04, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

"Dipwad" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Dipwad. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 27#Dipwad until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 ^talk _contribs ^subpages 15:04, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

"Idiot/Idiocy (Athenian Democracy)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Idiot/Idiocy (Athenian Democracy). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 28#Idiot/Idiocy (Athenian Democracy) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 ^talk _contribs ^subpages 14:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC)