Talk:Hopscotch (Cortázar novel)
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NPOV[edit]
According to the first paragraph, "Hopscotch by Julio Cortázar (translated to English by Gregory Rabassa) is by far, the most significant contribution to humanity by a single artist." That, as well as the rest of the paragraph, seems pretty POV to me! Bunnyhugger 17:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Complete Infobox Incorporation[edit]
| Author | Julio Cortázar |
|---|---|
| Original title | Rayuela |
| Translator | Gregory Rabassa |
| Country | United States |
| Language | English |
| Genre | Postmodern literature |
| Publisher | Pantheon |
Publication date | 1963 (Spanish) |
Published in English | 1966 |
| Media type | Print (paperback) |
| Pages | 576 (Pantheon) |
| ISBN | 0-394-75284-8 (Pantheon) |
| Preceded by | Historias de cronopios y de famas |
| Followed by | Todos los fuegos el fuego |
I added the new factual infobox to Julio Cortázar's Hopscotch Article. This is the new version. (Webb Traverse 09:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC))
Great Article[edit]
It was about time, Hopscotch is one of the true great books of postmodern literature. (Evendeeper 11:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC))
Full of incorrect details[edit]
The article is full of incorrect information. It seems whoever wrote the synopsis of the "part II" of the novel did not read the book or wasn't paying much attention to it. That whole section should be rewritten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.74.7.85 (talk) 02:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
You are right. hopefully, it is better now. Jlionheart (talk) 06:49, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Low res hopscotch.jpg[edit]
Image:Low res hopscotch.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 21:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Low res hopscotch.jpg[edit]
Image:Low res hopscotch.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 21:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
There are too many errors. The author of this article does not appear to have read the novel, os has misinterpreted and confused many of the plot points. For example, Oliveira, Traveler and Talita all started working at the mental institution at the same time. Morelli was an acquaintance of Oliveira's from Paris, who had been hospitalized after suffering a broken leg in a car accident. There is no argument between Oliveira and Traveler in the hospital's yard, and Oliveira does not jump out of the window; their verbal confrontation had taken place earlier, in Oliveira's room, and ended when Traveler joined Talita and the hospital staff downstairs in the yard, where he continued the conversation with Oliveira, who was perched on the open window.
I caught these errors after only a superficial review of the article. It is a good and admirable task to review this amazing work of literature. It is also a daunting task, considering the structural complexity of the novel. Greater attention to detail and more careful reading of this novel are necessary. I might read it again and contribute to the article later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.161.248.195 (talk) 00:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Borges' "Garden"?[edit]
I read in a textbook that this book was based upon Borges' story, "Garden of the Forking Paths," but I don't see that mentioned in the article. Does anyone have other sources that could verify or refute this claim? It seems like it should be included if it's true.... Aristophanes68 (talk) 00:05, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, the similarity is not such. The Garden of the Forking Paths is a labyrinth with all possible outcomes. Hopscotch maybe read like traversing a labyrinth, if the reader uses the index, but that is all. The comparison is not accurate. Hopscotch is more about existentialism, I think. --Davichito (talk) 02:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Christian article?[edit]
Why is this page categorized under "Christianity articles with comments"? Aristophanes68 (talk) 00:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Henry Miller influence[edit]
Added a "citation needed" template to the claim that the novel was influenced by Miller's writings. Cortázar didn't mention him or his writings either in the novel itself or on interviews, and i can't remember any critical work relating them. Although some of Miller's books talk about Paris and the "search for truth" there, there are many works of fiction that deal with the subject, and he was writing about a different time. Yaco (talk) 12:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree. I don't believe there is any documentation of any direct "influence" of Henry Miller in this novel. The same can be said about many other writers such as Joyce, Faulkner, or Proust. Cortazar's Hopscotch was experimental for his time and dabbled with many narrative (first person, second person, stream of consciousness, etc).
I think that sentence should be removed unless proper references are added. Nikoliko (talk) 01:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
No Sources[edit]
This articles does not cite any sources and appears to contain a great deal of original research. Even if some of the material is supported by information in the external links, it needs to be properly incorporated into the article via a references section. Added an "unreferenced" tag. cF —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisfjordson (talk • contribs) 02:59, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Horacio vs Society section inaccuracy[edit]
Under the Horacio vs Society bullet point, it is stated that he fights Traveler and Talita's life. This is incorrect -- he wishes to enter into their lives, not come into conflict with them. This motive is discussed in chapter 78: "I would like to enter into the intimacy of the Travelers under the pretext of knowing them better, of really getting to be the friend, although what I really want is to seize Manu's manna, Talita's elf, their ways of seeing things, their presents and their futures, different from mine."
Jlionheart (talk) 06:40, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
The main themes section has issues[edit]
The main themes section is biased, containing many subjective conclusions, like La Maga leading a failed life because she is supposedly unable to deal with the abuse she suffered in the past. That is wholly an opinion -- there is no evidence in the book to support that. Although the points themselves (for example, The Definition of Failure can be said to be one of the novel's themes) may not be inaccurate, the section itself still needs to be rewritten.
Jlionheart (talk) 06:58, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
"Isolation and loneliness"[edit]
I am going to remove the entire "Isolation and loneliness" section, as it makes absolutely no sense. Specifically:
Cortázar uses a quick, succinct, vignette-chapter style that paints brief images for the reader without relying too much on plot. [this has nothing to do with isolation and loneliness] At one point in the novel Horacio witnesses a car accident. It is said of the victim that "he doesn't have any family, he's a writer." Horacio is stunned by the way violence brings the community together. [what does "violence" have to do with "a car accident"?] Medics rush to the scene in an ambulance and speak "friendly, comforting words to him." [to whom? the car accident victim?] Violence and conflict continually bring characters together in Hopscotch. For instance, Talita's crossing of the bridge and Horacio's stunt at the novel's conclusion. [neither of which would seem to fit any definition of "violence"].
As far as I can see, this entire article is well below Wikipedia standards, especially given the importance of the book. Most of it should simply be tossed and replaced afresh. 850 C (talk) 16:30, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
Removing intro[edit]
I am removing the current intro, which read as follows:
- The book is highly influenced by Henry Miller’s reckless and relentless search for truth in post-decadent Paris and Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki’s modal teachings on Zen Buddhism.[citation needed]
- Cortázar's employment of interior monologue, punning, slang, and his use of different languages is reminiscent of Modernist writers like Joyce, although his main influences were Surrealism[citation needed] and the French New Novel -as Composition nº 1 (1962), by Marc Saporta (1923-2009)-, as well as the "riffing" aesthetic of jazz and New Wave Cinema.
- Since Cortázar’s death in 1984, there has been a great deal of ambiguity regarding the classification of the ‘novel without genre.’[citation needed] Works such as William S. Burroughs' 1962 novel, The Ticket That Exploded, and Thomas Pynchon's V., published the same year as Hopscotch, have earned similar reputations.[citation needed]
Virtually every statement there is either unsourced, implausible, or meaningless. The reference to Joyce might be added back in if properly sourced, as he was undoubtedly an influence, both directly and via Leopoldo Marechal. 850 C (talk) 17:01, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Still a mess[edit]
This article remains a mess. There's no mention of Maga's baby and its death, and the statement that "Babs... attacks Horacio for what he did to La Maga" leaves open the question of exactly what Horacio did to la Maga. One also wouldn't know that Maga as a character is present in much of the first section, since it states that she already "has disappeared" at the beginning (which may indeed be true, given the book's circular treatment of time, but is not the whole story).
There are also several paragraphs of the plot summary of chapters 1-36 that don't take place in Paris and belong in the following section (parts of which they duplicate). I'll try to improve it as time allows but it really needs to be stripped down and redone entirely. 850 C (talk) 20:25, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
Assessment comment[edit]
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hopscotch (Cortázar novel)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
| I looked of this article and there are many errors in it. While the writer of the article appears to be greatly informed on the subject, and there is a semblance of an analysis of Cortazar's novel, the information is not presented in a concise and clear manner and only seems to be trying to emulate or imitate the functions of the novel. I think that the original writer of this article can rewrite in a more sophisticated manner instead of trying to do the same type of techniques that may or may not be found in the novel (I have not read it). This is my recommendation and I also suggest for someone to flag this article for clarity--I don't know how to do that yet. |
Last edited at 07:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 18:15, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Translating from the Spanish article[edit]
The Spanish-language entry is in a better state. If folks agree, I'd be inclined to start translating and porting the better parts to the English-language entry.