Talk:Helen of Bosnia

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Vandalism[edit]

Can anyone provide a reason to keep the Bosniak history category? --HolyRomanEmperor 18:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you want I can repeat this as long as you ask this question. Are you pretending to be a dumb or what, because I answered to this question for n-th times? Bosniak history is history related to Bosnia, and Jelena was a Bosnian Queen. Bosniaks base their identity on Bosnia. --Emir Arven 20:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let me remind you about your forgery again:

Serb sources are mostly based on mythology and nationalism. That is just a pure fact. Wikipedia is not a place for collecting fairy tales. We could see that even recently, when Slobodan Milošević died. Serb public immediately said that he was killed by International community and Carla del Ponte. I have seen that you represent yourself as a historian. I don't believe you. Maybe you are a historian, but a bad one. Because historian should know the difference between facts and anachronism or between facts and stories or facts and nationalism. You go from article to article and put the term "Serb" where it should be and where it shouldn't be. You also deny Bosniak history in medieval ages. You talked about Stjepan's chart, but just about the last forged sentece, added by some scribe. Why? Because you wanted to show or tried to connect Serb language with a script called by that scribe: "Serb script" (That kind of script didn't even exist). The source that you presented [1] is Serb nationalistic site, that support war criminals. It says that Draza Mihajlovic, was a WWII hero. Draža Mihailović was sentenced as a war criminal and was executed in former Yugoslavia for crimes that he commited in eastern Bosnia. He was nazi supporter and collaborator. This site also supports Slobodan Milosevic, accuesed for genocide. This site was even quoted by Slobodan Milosevic during the trial. This is not serious source. Also you are the one that put V. Corovic book as a source, and told us that that book supported your theses. When I checked it I found that you lied. Can you tell me why, my dear friend? So tell me how possible could I believe you anymore? This is just a good sign that many Serbs deny Bosniak identity as Serb war criminal Ratko Mladic did when he commited genocide.--Emir Arven 21:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Full explaination given here: Talk:Stephen I of Bosnia. Also, see User_talk:HolyRomanEmperor/Archive5#.22Serb.2FCroat.2FBosniak.22_History_Categories - it's relevant to the subject.

She was a Serbian Queen next to Bosnian - so I am adding the proper category. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added Bosniak history since she is a part of bosniak history and I removed History of FBIH and RS since theese are Bosnian current political entities that has nothing to do with Bosnia during the Middle ages. Alkalada 15:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

She was a Serbian monarch too... You shouldn't've removed that category too. --PaxEquilibrium 20:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand, you agree to put both, but on the House of Kotromanic article you said that the Kotromanics are not of Serbian, nor of Croatian, but just Bosniak history?

I wanted to evade this all modernism, but is there any real strong reason to keep the Bosniak history category? --PaxEquilibrium 20:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I will let both serb and bosniak history be a part in this article since obviously both serbs and bosniaks see her as part of their history. I will HOWEVER not aloude her to be a part of FBIH or RS history since they are only entites created during the last war. Alkalada 21:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean that you will "let us" keep it as serb and bosniak history? Who are you to decide what culture/s she belongs to??Paulcicero 23:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, I am trying to make a compromise since obviously you serb want here to be a part of serb history and we bosniaks want her to be part of bosniak history then I kept both of them in the article.

And WHO ARE YOU to decide whats her culture? Alkalada 08:23, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think what he meant to say is that a Japanese could come and request the "Japanese history" category to be put in the article. --PaxEquilibrium 13:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

Wouldn't Helena be a better translation of her name Jelena? Most Eastern European royalty with this name is usually under Helena rather than Helen. --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 19:23, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just used the name used by John Van Antwerp Fine, who wrote extensively about her and whose work is the main source for this article. Surtsicna (talk) 08:30, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Surtsicna: Why did you remove references on her nickname, Gruba, and altered this to "also known by the name", when this is clearly a nickname, meaning "ugly, coarse, rough".--Zoupan 18:33, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The biography cited here now does not make a mention of it. Mandić is not an historian. The names Helena and Gruba are never used together in sources; she appears either as Helena or as Gruba, so it cannot be an epithet (such as Dušan Silni). I believe (OR?) that the name Jelena (Helena) is her Christian name, and the name Gruba her Slavic "secular" name (as in Matej Ninoslav). The fact that the word gruba means "coarse, rough" ("ugly"?) might be a coincidence; no Vuk was actually a vuk. Surtsicna (talk) 22:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]