Talk:Germany national football team/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Numbers

1 Lehmann, 2 Jansen, 3 A. Friedrich, 4 Huth, 5 Kehl, 6 Pander, 7 Schweinsteiger, 8 Frings, 9 Hanke, 10 Neuville, 11 Klose, 12 Hildebrand, 13 Ballack, 14 Asamoah, 15 Hitzlsperger, 16 Lahm, 17 Mertesacker, 18 Borowski, 19 Schneider, 20 Podolski, 21 Metzelder, 22 Odonkor, 23 Enke, 24 M. Friedrich, 25 Fathi, 26 Madlung, 27 Fritz, 28 Trochowski, 29 Schlaudraff, 30 Freier, 31 Kuranyi, 32 Gomez, 33 Kießling, 34 Hilbert, 35 Castro, 36 Schulz, 37 Helmes, 38 Rolfes, 39 Jones, 40 Tasci, 41 westermann —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.198.86.114 (talk) 01:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Minor: Terminology in Euro 2006

The last sentence of that section caught my attention: "In fact the World Cup had managed to positively change the perceptions of many worldwide of Germany, reflecting a more accurate and fair view of Germany today." This is very hard to support with any formal evidence, but actually, I believe, too true to be deleted - whereas the last 10 words might be just a little too much of it: Has Germany been looked at in an unfair way? What is the accurate perception of Germany today? I would prefer sth like "reflecting an improved/changed/more positive view" or anything of the like (or to leave that clause out whatsoever) and would like to ask s.o. less biased than me to make a corresponding adjustment, since I am not only German, but a stupid, fatuous worshipper of the mannschaft, too :o) - so it doesn't look like a good idea to edit here - even if I don't feel that biased in this case... (just to make sure: I do not wish to spawn, nor to participate in, OT discussions about the proper view of Germany or anything related - I would just like to straighten out a simple senctence - by the way, do I talk too much? :o) ) thx 88.76.221.241 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Ach, If noone else does it, I'll have to get hands dirty myself 88.77.99.170 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, seems like you disagree with me on that issue, Hubschrauber729, but I would really like to know why. I am trying to reduce the quite considerable amount of statements within the article that I agree with, but of which I think they cannot really be proven, or sourced or whatever. I'd just like to sort out statements that would get lost anyway, over time. So I think I'm editing in "good faith". Could you therefore explain me your motivation/your evaluation to me? Why do you think it can be sourced how the way Germany was percieved has changed, let alone towards a more "accurate" and "fair" view, from a sourceable, objective perspective? Btw, I am not among those who are actually ashame of being German (just in case that is the drawer you put me in), I would do the same edit sitting in India, probably. So I don't quite get your point. Please enlighten me. 88.77.99.170 (talk)

Two colours!?

What's with the two different coloured uniforms? Is Germany wearing the white one or the red one in the Europe soccer cup this year? There should be a link somewhere explaining the uniforms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.155.231 (talk) 06:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

.......................................................Never heard of first and second kit? Home and away kit? Two teams with white shirts can't play each other. — chandler — 07:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I've heard of home and away kits, you should just call them that so that people who aren't insiders know what you are talking abuot. But how does it work in something like the Euro Cup where every country except for two of them is "away"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.155.231 (talk) 14:31, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

In tournament match ups, it is always a "home team" (listed first) vs. an "away team", no matter where they come from. Today's game Quarterfinal 1 was scheduled for Winner of Group A (Portugal) vs. Runner Up Gr. B (Germany) in Basel, Switzerland, with Portugal being the "home team" due to having qualified better in the group stage. In the semifinal in the same stadium, the winner of Quarterfinal 1 (Germany) is listed as home team. If Switzerland would have advanced as Runner up of Gr. A (instead of Turkey) and have won Quarterfinal 2, they would be the away team in the semifinal, even on home soil.-- Matthead  Discuß   21:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The article currently states: "it is also reported that the choice is in recognition of the fact that Ireland, whose home shirts are green, were supposedly the first nation to play Germany in a friendly game after World War II.". Sorry, this is wrong. Ireland was not the first country, but the fourth after Switzland, Austria and Turkey. Please look here and check the years 1950 and 1951. --Asdert (talk) 14:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

European Championship Appearances

I changed the number European Championship appearances to (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_European_Football_Championship). Capraicus (talk) 22:38, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Kit Design

I don't think there is any need for the kit to contain the German logo plus Adidas logo. If every team had this we would be overun with kits so can this please be changed. Thanks. --86.18.11.164 (talk) 14:36, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Nicknames

I'd like to suggest changing the english translation of 'Mannschaft' to 'the squad' or 'the team'. I think 'the crew' does not match in this context. --Kleiderseller (talk) 03:00, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

It should also be clarified that these are "nicknames" used by foreign media, not by the Germans themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.220.150.41 (talk) 22:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I wrote this in the article "Joao Havelange (former FIFA President from 1974 to 1998) claimed that the 1966 and 1974 World Cups were fixed so that England and Germany would win respectively" but I can't add the source to the references http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=753029 Can someone do it 4 me?

lead

Bit long isn't it? 218.215.184.130 (talk) 06:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Away colours

The following section appears somewhat unneccessary.

though it is also reported that the choice is in recognition of the fact that Ireland, whose home shirts are green, were supposedly the first nation to play Germany in a friendly game after World War II. This is false, as their first match after WWII was in fact against the Swiss.

Does the article have to include common misconceptions? I think the correct information (green shirts derive from DFB's own colours), which is provided a few lines earlier, is just enough. Kopfballungeheuer (talk) 12:46, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Top goalscorers - Average per game

I added an "Average" column to the table. Hope it's OK. Kvsh5 (talk) 18:50, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

East German records

As the current German team is the successor to BOTH the East and West German teams, it is outragous that only West German and current German records are displayed in caps and goals, when clearly East German players recors belong there too. Can someone fix this obvious oversight? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.110.187 (talk) 14:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Officially, only West German records and statistics are kept under the current team. Your grievance should be taken up with FIFA, not Wikipedia. If you go here, look at "Best Results" on the right side of the page. They have West Germany's 4^th place finish in the 1952 Olympic Football Tournament. But where is East Germany's Olympic tournament win in 1976? Kingjeff (talk) 16:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

it's not successor of east germany because it's still Deutscher Fußball Bund (German FA) and it's still the Federal Republic of Germany (todays united Germany is not a new state but still the same as old west germany just enlarge by 5 new Länder) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.216.89.205 (talk) 07:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

What is the problem?

[[:Image:German-national-team-v-england-white-hart-lane-1935-3-nil.jpg|thumb|200px| German national team before the start of the international match versus England at White Hart Lane 1935.]] Some one keeps deleting this image.

Its usage is legitimate.

Does any one else have an issue with it? Silent Billy (talk) 09:32, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're up against an overzealous anti-image editor who is not inclined to provide meaningful edit summaries much less engage in conversation. I don't see a particular problem with the {{Non-free historic image}} tag. The image provides useful information about the political climate at the time and is a clear representation of the lineup on that matchday. Wiggy! (talk) 15:39, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

User:Fasach Nua seems to feel that the image does not meet the non-free content criteria. However, given this user's edit to this discussion page without commenting, if more discussion is needed, perhaps their talk page may be a more productive forum. That being said, I agree with Wiggy!, the use of the image seems perfectly legitimate. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:30, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh well I shall have to hope for assistance if FN keeps deleting it. My mother was a photographer's assistance in the Luftwaffe auxiliary (Luftwaffenhelferinnenkorps?) and at war's end she somehow managed to keep hold of a fair bit of equipment and photographic images. The former she used to take photos in the UK from 1947 onwards which she hawked around to postcard manufacturers - they have long been consigned to the bin (unfortunately). The latter have become much depleted due to moves and poor storage etc but there are some worthwhile bits and pieces. Silent Billy (talk) 22:00, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

There is a delete request on the image. Anybody care to defend it's status at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion#File:German-national-team-v-england-white-hart-lane-1935-3-nil.jpg? Silent Billy (talk) 22:41, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

The image that showed the 1935 has been deleted. User:Fasach Nua is "victorious" it seems. What was his point? Well that does it for me I shall never make another financial contribution to Wp appeals and I have cancelled my monthly standing order. Silent Billy (talk) 00:08, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually the closing comment was that there was no FUR for the image. I think if a new FUR is written and the image reposted you could probably get by with it. I was going to do something with it and forgot about it. Too much Christmas stuff happening. Wiggy! (talk) 01:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

preliminary euro-squad 2008

(officially nominated by Löw on may 16; to be downsized from 26 to 23) Jens Lehmann (Arsenal), Robert Enke (Hannover 96), René Adler (Bayer Leverkusen)

Arne Friedrich (Hertha BSC Berlin), Marcell Jansen (Bayern Munich), Philipp Lahm (Bayern Munich), Per Mertesacker (Werder Bremen), Heiko Westermann (Schalke 04), Clemens Fritz (Werder Bremen), Christoph Metzelder (Real Madrid)

Michael Ballack (FC Chelsea), Thomas Hitzlsperger (VfB Stuttgart), Simon Rolfes (Bayer Leverkusen), Bastian Schweinsteiger (Bayern Munich), Tim Borowski (Werder Bremen), Torsten Frings (Werder Bremen), Piotr Trochowski (Hamburger SV), Jermaine Jones (Schalke 04), David Odonkor (FC Sevilla). Marko Marin (Borussia Mönchengladbach)

Mario Gomez (VfB Stuttgart), Miroslav Klose (Bayern Munich), Lukas Podolski (Bayern Munich), Kevin Kuranyi (Schalke 04), Patrick Helmes (1. FC Collonge), Oliver Neuville (Borussia Mönchengladbach)

Urgent protection needed

Frequent references to the Nazi party have appeared since the World Cup match has started. CagedKiller360 (talk) 15:21, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Link http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft_2010/Deutschland  ?

Link http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft_2010/Deutschland  ? 99.184.231.79 (talk) 01:26, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Inappropriate as an interwiki, as this is not about the 2010 team, but about the team in general.

Inappropriate as an external link, because it's to a Wikipedia article, and it's not about the article.

— Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:17, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Rivalries

Is there really a rivalry between the English and German National Teams? Germans See talk and even the English press [1] have pointed out that this is a rather one-sided thing. The article on de.wikipedia.org mentions no such rivalry nor interestingly does the [England England national football team] article where it more properly belongs. If sources for this rivalry cannot be cited other than in the English press, why not remove this section altogether to make the article less POV? Gomez3000adams (talk) 16:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Germans do not really see a rivalry between their team and the English national football team. When Germany has to play against England people always talk about "a classic", they look forward to a match of two teams with a long football history, but without rivalry. If the German national team has a special rival it is the Dutch team. "Orange trägt nur die Müllabfuhr" - "Only the rubbish collection service wears orange" was a big hit in the German charts. "ohne Holland fahrn wir zur WM" "Without holland we go to the championships" was another one when Holland did not qualify in 2002. There is very little mock or sarcasm against English football, with respect it is called "the motherland of football". The worst thing Germans think of when asked about matches against England is the Wembley goal of 1966. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.200.214.91 (talk) 19:07, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Whenever there is a match between England and Germany the German newspapers are jam-packed with reviews of English newspaper articles that compare the German football shirts with Nazi uniforms, the German players with tanks and so on. For Germany I support the view that the match is seen as a classic rather than a display of rivalry. What prevails is the shaking of heads because of the backward news coverage in English tabloids such as Sun and Daily Mirrow. There is a strong pacifistic post-war eduction in Germany that makes comparisons of football players with Nazis really hard to (under)stand. This would hardly be tolerated in German newspapers and I expect, it would lead to demands for resignation against persons responsible for such articles. Prince Harry's Nazi clanger sustainably damaged his reputation in the German public and Jewish communities. Likewise the well-observed English news coverage before a match between England and Germany is hurtful for many Germans. 92.225.81.79 (talk) 05:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Interesting article

The Guardian featured the German national football team in a recent article. Very interesting to read and possibly a source for the Wikipedia article? 92.225.81.79 (talk) 05:01, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Nickname DFB-Elf

It's not a nickname, it's a synonym. Like FA-Team or USFA-Team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.231.181.182 (talk) 16:36, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

You're right. I don't get why nobody seems to understand that there just isn't any nickname for the German team in the German language. 91.50.34.224 (talk) 13:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Some say "National-Elf" (national-eleven) --20.133.40.85 (talk) 09:49, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Spain in 1982

Spain was not the runner-up in World Cup 82', it was actually kicked in round 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.58.205.49 (talk) 11:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Infobox: Imperial Soccer?

Neither the German nor the Russian Empire(s) have ever played international football matches, have they? It´s o.k. to say "Germany" and "Russia", respectively, because these are common short versions of "Auswahl des Deutschen Fußball-Bundes" ("The German Football Association XI") and... well, dunno what the name of the Russian F.A. was at the time. "Nations crumble / And empires fall" (Ray Davies), but sadly, they never play soccer, sez SpVggLieth (talk) 16:25, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Positions

In spite of the fact that Lukas Podolski, Thomas Müller, and Cacau typically play as strikers for their clubs and for the national team, according to the official dfb squad list, they were called up as midfielders for the Euro 2012 qualifiers against Belgium, and Azerbaijan. This article should reflect that. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:31, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Move to German national football team

I've reverted the move to German national football team because it was a) undiscussed and b) the naming of the other teams follows the same scheme. Please discuss the naming at WT:FOOTY. --Jaellee (talk) 11:55, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Away colours

the Away colours of Germany are not green!! the Away colours are Black!! -- hey the alternative uniform for South Africa was black shorts!, not white, and are indeed green right now, for Pol & Ukr 2012. 83.243.48.2 (talk) 10:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

The Away colours of Germany are not black!! The Away colours are green. See: http://www.schwarzundweiss.co.uk/trikots/2011-2013.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.20.182.107 (talk) 00:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

football team of the gdr

it has to say socialist gdr not communist gdr, since there was no commun9sm in the gdr. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.64.132.47 (talk) 16:52, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Political position of the SED-party was to create a communist state. It doesn´t matter if they didn´t reach that goal.93.128.90.123 (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

isn't half of german team foreigners ???

when Mario Gomez is Spanish, Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski are from Poland, Jerome Boateng is from Ghana, Cacau is from Brazil, Mesut Ozil is from Turkey, Sami Khedira is from Tunisia , Ilkay Gundogan also from Turkey, Dennis Aogo from Nigeria. Something of what i've said must be mentioned on article --82.139.5.13 (talk) 12:42, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Why don't you ask if Raheem Sterling is a foreigner? He plays in Englands National Football team but was born in Jamaica. Or all the other players with black skin in the English or American National Football Team. Don' t they all have african ancestry? Why do all these stupid questions arise only in connection with german sportsmen? Is it racism? Is it envy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.192.32.130 (talk • contribs) 19:58, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

There are also a great many German-born players on team USA. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:02, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Both Gómez and Khedira were born in German state of Baden-Württemberg and born to German mothers. Podolski is an ethnic German. He was able to claim Aussiedler status because of his family's situation as displaced Germans. Özil and Gundogan are from Gelsenkirchen, Boateng is from Berlin and born to a German mother, Aogo is from Karlsruhe and Klose's father is a German citizen which makes Klose a German citizen. The only ligitimate one is Cacau. Kingjeff (talk) 00:27, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

• But in wikipedia articles about Podolski and Klose, there's nothing mentioned about having German fathers. --82.139.5.13 (talk) 10:14, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

So? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:04, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

In both of their article's it does state that they're ethnic Germans. Podolski's article states "his paternal grandparents having German citizenship prior to WWII." Klose's states how his father is an ethnic German and held German citizenship. Kingjeff (talk) 15:57, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand. I've said something offensive or insultive or stupid ??? --82.139.5.13 (talk) 15:06, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

No. The list you mentioned above are easy candidates to get a wrong assumption. You would have to know their connections to Germany to get the correct assumption. Kingjeff (talk) 15:57, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I've responded to Walter Gorlitz's comment, not yours. --82.139.5.13 (talk) 17:32, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

You've said nothing wrong. You've also failed to explain yourself fully. My "So?" was simply reflecting that. Wikipedia is not a source and so referencing them isn't particularly helpful. Also, what does it matter if their fathers are or are not German? It has nothing to do with whether a person is or is not eligible for German citizenship. The fact that you don't know the actual citizenship of some players and then you make statements about paternal nationality just leads me to believe you don't understand much about the subject. Anything else? --19:32, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Everyone can make mistakes. I've just didn't knew that some players have German parents (whatever it's father or mother) and also i agree that Wikipedia isn't itself a source because it's online encyclopedia, but in popular culture someone can use written fragments from wiki article. --82.139.5.13 (talk) 20:33, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Mistakes do happen. FIFA eligibility is not determined by nationality either. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:54, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Mario Gomez, Jerome Boateng, Sami Khedira all have a german (and a non-german) parent - to say they are not German is BS134.3.76.108 (talk) 15:07, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Now I've read the Talk pages for the articles on Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski and I see that the same discussions (whether Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski are Polish football players or not) are going on there too. I know that this it not an answer to anything in this discussion, but I need to express how tired I am of these discussions. Usually in connection with every major national championship there are people, often Poles, who insist that they are Polish football players. But do they have any relevant connection to Polish football? As far as I can see, there are very little that connects them to Polish football. What I can see is that they have developed themselves as football players, and spent most of their careers as football players, in Germany. I think that is what matters when you talk about them as football players. This obsession with their ethnicity or paternal nationality disgusts me. It is all racism and nationalism to me. Otherwise, please tell me why their ethnicity is important when you talk about them as football players? They might have Polish ethnicity to some extent and they might be born in Poland, but as football players, I think they are very much German. And, they are de facto German citizens. EriFr (talk) 10:13, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Probably mentioned somewhere else but just for completeness. Podolski and Klose are special cases. Their status is Aussiedler. In detail: Due to German history (many settlers in eastern eurpoe, late unification and loss of territory in the two WW) after 1945 many ethnic Germans remained east of the new borders of Germany. The german state regards these as having german citizenship (similar perhaps to Ireland regarding everyone born on the island of Ireland as citizens). So from the official German point of view Klose's and Podolski's families have always been regarded as German, even though in both cases they have only claimed German citizenship after the birth of the sons.81.157.129.195 (talk) 12:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

*West*-Germany that is of course. Don't know about East. Probably got some of the details wrong. Sure there are Wikipedia articles that give everything.81.157.129.195 (talk) 13:05, 23 July 2014 (UTC)