Talk:Finesse (song)

Requested move 29 June 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was:Not moved right now(non-admin closure)Neel.arunabh (talk) 19:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

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Finesse (song) → Finesse (Bruno Mars song) – Do not confuse with the Drake song. Neel.arunabh (talk) 21:40, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. The Drake song has no article, and there's no indication it will be a single or otherwise notable enough for a page, although it's certainly possible it will be in the future. If it does get an article I'd support the move. Nohomersryan (talk) 02:18, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Same reason as stated above by the other user. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:58, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Per argument made by Nohomersryan. DovahDuck (talk) 02:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. The song might have been made by Bruno Mars, but it also features Cardi B., so it's unsensible to give Bruno Mars credit, but not Cardi B. Anonymous 16:16, 2 July 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.118.51.92 (talk)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Finesse (song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Minecrafter0271 (talk · contribs) 21:04, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Here is my GA review for this article.

Article Rundown

Lead

• Pretty standard lead. Doesn't go into unnecessary detail, and sums up everything that I'll hopefully see later in this article.

Background and Development

• I like how it goes into detail on how the song came to be. So far, really good article.

Composition

• I am a fan of how it runs through the songs inspiration, with citations, and how it also has an audio media file with a relevant caption. So far, good article.

Critical Reception

• Pretty standard section. Goes into a ton of detail, but not too much. Overall, looking good.

Accolades

• Let's take a moment to appreciate how much citations are in this article. The only thing I DON'T like about that is that it makes my job as a reviewer harder because there are more sources to check and whatnot. As for the sub-section, I think it's pretty good;

Chart Performance

North America

• In depth review of the sales. Pretty standard.

International

• Again, pretty standard subsection.

Music Video

Background and Concept

• I didn't know have the stuff in that subsection, so I am happy that the article can teach people new things, if you will.

Synopsis

• It does a really good job of saying the main aspects of the video, but not giving any spoilers, if you will, about the video, so hats off to you!

Reception

• What about fan reception? Just something to consider.

The views kinda do that, on top of that is a GA article, so that would be fancruft. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:22, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Live Performances and Other Usage

• Okay. This section is a little bit long and not too comfortable to navigate. I understand that it is a lot of information, but it would be really great if you could narrow it down a bit.

Any sugestions? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:24, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Closing Comments

Overall, pretty good quality article. It is a little bit long, but I understand that the article does have a lot of relevant information. Congrats!

Criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Based on what I have observed, I believe that the article has reached all the necessary criteria to be listed as Good Article under the Good Article Criteria. Congratulations to every editor of this article that help it reach this milestone. Maybe it will be listed as Featured one day, but for now, congratulations! Minecrafter0271 (talk) 22:15, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Finesse (song)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Reviewer: Kyle Peake (talk · contribs) --Kyle Peake (talk) 17:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I'm doing a GA reassessment of this after a discussion between me and MarioSoulTruthFan on my talk page, after the original GA review was viewed as somewhat questionable. The article doesn't look to be bad so is unlikely to fail, but there are definite improvements to be made for it to be of GA quality that I will make in this review that could be responded to within in a week; it was agreed on for me to do this instead of a peer review though. --Kyle Peake (talk) 17:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Wikilink Shampoo Press & Curl to The Smeezingtons in the infobox
• "produced the track" → "produced it"
• "Press & Curl along with the latter four, as The" → "Press & Curl, along with the latter four, as The"
• Wikilink new jack swing on the first mention
• "as the album's final single" → "as the album's fifth and final single"
• "to digital stores and streaming services" → "for digital download and streaming"
• Remove wikilink on second mention of new jack swing
• "Its lyrics" → "The lyrics"
• Wikilink hip hop to Hip hop music
• "Bell Biv DeVoe's "Poison" (1990)" → "Bell Biv DeVoe's track "Poison" (1990)" as you are now not mentioning albums
• "The single has also entered" → "It has also entered" and place before the certification from NZ as that should come next to the other certifications
• "It was certified platinum by the Recorded Music NZ (RMNZ) and four times platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). It was certified three times platinum by the Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA) and once by the British Phonographic Industry (BPI)." This should all be in two sentences but next to each other and ordered differently, I'd say → "The song was certified four and three times platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) and Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA), respectively. It was also certified platinum by both the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) and the Recorded Music NZ (RMNZ)." also remember these two sentences will come after the chart positions
• Target FOX to Fox Broadcasting Company
• "To promote the song" → "To promote "Finesse""
• "Mars and Cardi B performed at" → "Mars and Cardi B performed it at"
• ""Finesse" was included" → "The song was included"
• "performed by Cardi B at the iHeart Music Awards and by Kelly Clarkson at the Billboard Music Awards." → "performed by Cardi B at the iHeart Music Awards and Kelly Clarkson at the Billboard Music Awards, respectively."

Don't need to say "respectively" when reading the sentence you already know, if they were together like "Cardi B and Kelly Clarkson performed a medley of its at X and Y spot.." then use the word. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:29, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

• Wikilink Billboard Music Awards to Billboard Music Award
• "nominations and awards, winning" → "nominations and awards, including winning"

It's the same, doesn't change the meaning and it's corrected anyway. Not sure why I should do that. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:31, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done with minor changes.

Background and development

• "hinting he was working" → "hinting that he was working"
• Shouldn't it be mentioned that Mars is featured on "Uptown Funk" as this makes it sound like they are both lead artists?
• "It was due" → "The album was due"
• "but his appearance" → "but Mars' appearance"
• "a deal with Atlantic Records they" → "a deal with Atlantic Records, they"
• Mention when Mars signed with the label for more context
• "In 2015, Jonathan Yip" → "In 2015, Jonathan Yip of the team" as readers may not know who he is
• "who asked Yip if they" → "who asked the former if The Stereotypes" as it is too repetitive otherwise
• "caught his attention; he asked" → "caught his attention, with him asking"
• "in another track idea" → "in another idea for a track"
• Wikilink on new jack swing
• "everyone was playing an" → "everyone was either playing an"
• "beat", finding it "too" → "beat", which he found "too"
• "He explained," → "Mars explained,"
• "album of the bounce."" → "album of the bounce"." I have looked throughout the article and punctuation outside quotes tends to be used more, so it should be used over a consistent basis rather than varying

That's not the way to do it, I showed it below. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:53, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

• "At that time, he also" → "At that time, Mars also"
• "fucking with yet."" → "fucking with yet"."
• Mention when Mars chose to release it as a single

I can't as such is not stated in the interview, which took place after. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:53, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

• Put the word "rapper" before Cardi B
• "The singer said" → "The former said"
• "I'd hoped she'd be."" → "I'd hoped she'd be"."
• "Mars and Cardi B began on Twitter, around" → "Mars and Cardi B had began on Twitter around"
• Wikilink Billboard to Billboard (magazine)

 Done with minor changes

Production and release

• "was co-written by Bruno Mars" → "was written by Mars"
• "Jonathan Yip" → "Yip" as he's the only Yip mentioned in the article
• Lawrence and Fauntleroy should be wikilinked to their pages
• "would be the record's" → "would be the album's"
• The word "rapper" is not needed as we should have already introduced to Cardi B
• Wikilink digital download to Music download and streaming services to Streaming media
• Wikilink Warner Music Group
• Mention the US and UK releases were through Atlantic Records
• "through Atlantic Records" → "through the aforementioned labels"
• Remove wikilink on 24K Magic

 Done

Composition

• Close the sentence on the audio with a full-stop
• Remove wikilink on new jack swing
• "It draws it main inspiration" → "The song draws its main inspiration"
• Wikilink tempo
• "and its new jack swing style" → "and the new jack swing style"
• Should it be "single release" or "remix version"?

It's the same as the remix is the single release. The song charted previously when it was't released as an single, only album. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 18:07, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

• Remove wikilink on Cardi B

 Done

Critical reception

• "that recalls Michael Jackson's "Remember The Time" (1992)."" → "that recalls" Jackson's "Remember The Time"." as the quote isn't what you claimed for it to be, plus we have already introduced Michael Jackson with his full name and the song's release year
• "throwback notes."" → "throwback notes"."
• "and Dangerous (1991)-era Michael Jackson" → "and Dangerous-era Michael Jackson" since you've already introduced this album and also remove the wikilink for the aforementioned reason
• "remix for the ages."" → "remix for the ages"."
• "originals seem ersatz."" → "originals seem ersatz"."

 Done, besides regarding the full stop, if it is inside the quote it keeps being inside the quote, you can see it on [[1]]. Henceforth the GOCE didn't change that. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 18:08, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Accolades

• "swagger was undeniable."" → "swagger was undeniable"."
• "Slant Magazines' Zachary Hoskins criticize" → "Slant Magazine's Zachary Hoskins criticized"
• "verse and the happiness" → "verse, and the happiness"
• Billboard should be italicized on the Awards show name

 Done

Chart performance

• Retitle to commercial performance

 Done

North America

• "the remix, which features Cardi B, and the official music video" → "the remix and its official music video" since we need to know this is a music video for the remix and it is already established that Cardi B is featured on the single
• Change Billboard Digital Songs to only having a wikilink on Digital Songs
• "It has drawn" → "The song had drawn"
• Fix Billboard Radio Songs like I said about digital
• "on the Billboard Hot 100" → "on the Hot 100"
• "fifteenth" → "15th"
• "fourth top ten single on the Hot 100" → "fourth top ten single on the chart"
• "it rose to number 12" → "the song rose 37 places to number 12"
• "on the Billboard Radio Songs with" → "on the US Radio Songs chart with"
• "at the US Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs and" → "on the US Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart and"
• "three top-10s" → "three top-tens"
• "number one on the said chart making" → "number one on the chart, making"
• "At that time," → "At the time,"
• Fix Mainstream Top 40 like I said about digital songs
• "Mainstream Top 40 with" → "Mainstream Top 40, with"
• "with nine number ones" → "to have nine number ones"
• ""Finesse" was certified four times platinum" → "The song was certified four times platinum"

No need, as the link doesn't change the meaning of the certification and would be overkill with some many links as that doesn't really give the reader anything useful. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 00:33, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

• "was able to peak at" → "peaked at"
• "entered the top three" → "entered at nunber three"

 Done

International

• "Upon the album's release," → "Following the album's release,"
• Should it be charts or chart?
• "number 13 being certified gold" → "number 13, being certified gold"
• "The following week the song rose to" → "The following week, the song rose two places to"
• "debuted at number 44" → "entered at number 44"
• "in March for" → "in March of that year for"
• "it topped the charts" → "the track topped the charts"
• "Israel and it peaked" → "Israel, and it peaked"
• Note that this is about the remix on the Portugal mention first as otherwise, it looks like you aren't talking about it due to not mentioning the remix until the second chart listing in the second para
• "Portuguese Single Charts" → "Portuguese Singles Chart"
• Add the ARIA copies shipped

 Done with little changes. See if you are ok with those

Looks good now

Music video

Background and concept

• Wikilink In Living Color on the first mention, as you can not introduce it on the second with an introduction still there
• "Aftwards, Mars" → "Afterwards, Mars"
• "thanking them for it" → "thanking both of them for it"
• "to be dancers on the music video" → "to be dancers for the music video"
• "wasn't all Hollywood."" → "wasn't all Hollywood"."
• ""surreal", with the" → ""surreal" with the"
• "added that with Mars they" → "added that with Mars that they"

You don't need the second "that" in this sentence. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 15:42, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

• "It was directed by" → "The visual was directed by"
• "with the former being a creative" → "with the former was a creative"

I reworded differently, see if you are ok with it.

 Done

• Looks good now

Synopsis

• "pays homage to the popular American sketch comedy television series In Living Color" → "pays homage to In Living Color"
• "The video was formatted" → "The former was formatted"
• Wikilink VHS
• "It opens up with" → "The music video opens with"
• "before it goes to Mars' first verse" → "before Mars' first verse begins"
• Remove wikilink on DJ Rashida as you have already done this
• "of the music video" → "of the video" as music video is used too much in this section

 Done

Reception

• Remove wikilink on The Independent
• "the splashiest '90s music video."" → "the splashiest '90s music video"."
• "Ron Dicker of HuffPost praised" → "Dicker praised" as we introduced him as being Ron Dicker of HuffPost already
• "energy on the music video" → "energy on the video" as you said music video last sentence
• Target Vulture to Vulture.com and remove the italicization
• "not being innovating, as the video is a tribute to" → "not being innovative due to the video being in tribute to"
• "and Jennifer Lopez praised" → "and Jennifer Lopez, praised"
• "considered its visuals" → "considered the visual"
• "homage."" → "homage"."
• "on his list" → "on his July list"
• Does Mike Nied's list need to be surrounded by speech marks?
• "their vibrant collaboration."" → "their vibrant collaboration"."
• "The visuals for the song were included" → "The video for the song was included"
• "the '90s, "Finesse" helped" → "the '90s, 'Finesse' helped"
• "solidify their place as icons of 2018."" → "solidify their place as icons of 2018"."
• "In 2018, it won" → "In 2018, the music video won" as this is a new para
• "Music Awards and was nominated" → "Music Awards, and was nominated"
• "In the same year it earned" → "That same year, it earned"
• "as Best Choreography and Best Editing" → "as both Best Choreography and Best Editing"
• "within the first two days" → "within its first two days"

 Done

Live performances and other usage

• "Apollo Theater alongside the majority of the 24K Magic album" → "Apollo Theater alongside the majority of 24K Magic"
• "It started with" → "The performance started with"
• "the performance included" → "It included"
• Are we sure that they're "music critics" who reviewed the performance?
• "who also found it similar" → "who found it similar"
• "'90s-tastic performance."" → "'90s-tastic performance"."
• Remove wikilink on Vibe
• "up the Grammys stage."" → "up the Grammys stage"."
• "performance affirming that" → "performance, affirming that"
• "common stage fright technique: picking" → "common stage fright technique in picking"
• Billboard should be italicized on the Awards show name
• "from the remix of Mars' "Finesse"." → "from the remix of "Finesse"."
• Wikilink Paste to Paste (magazine)
• "saying that its nostalgia" → "saying that the nostalgia"
• "Pentatonix recorded a cover" introduce them
• "featured the remix of "Finesse"." → "featured the remix."
• ""Finesse (Remix)" was also part of the video game Just Dance 2019's and NBA 2K19's soundtracks." → "It was part of the soundtracks for the video games Just Dance 2019 and NBA 2K19, respectively."
• "It was also used" → "The remix was also used"
• "in December 2018" → "in December of that year"

 Done with minor changes, I removed tunefind as is not a relibale source

Track listing

• Good

Credits and personnel

• Good

Charts

Weekly charts

• Remove Croatia as the source doesn't work

Take a second look at it, it works fine for me the Croatia one. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:11, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

• Remove Israel as that source is dead and doesn't have an archive

 Done

Year-end charts

• Croatia (HRT Top 40) → Croatia (HRT) and add the appropriate wikilink on HRT since that isn't in the other subsection
• Keep Hungary charts because it didn't reach the single top 40 for the year-end
• Wikilink Galgalatz
• Include the wikilinks on the South Korea chart as that is the first mention of it

 Done I fixed the Croatia reference on the weekly charts.

Certifications

• Good

Release history

• Change the ref col to Ref. instead

 Done

References

• Ref 3 should cite HitQuarters as a publisher
• Change New York Times to The New York Times on ref 6
• Wikilink E! News on ref 13
• Remove wikilink to Atlantic Records on refs 15 and 24
• Sure two publishers should be cited on ref 21; same issue for 23?
• Solely cite BBC as the publisher on ref 22 as Radio 1 is already in the title and giving the full name is too long plus not displayed on the source
• Ref 27 should cite AXS as a publisher
• Obvious typo on ref 29
• Ref 30 should cite Idolator as a publisher
• Ref 32 should cite The Irish Times instead
• Ref 42 should cite AllMusic as a publisher
• Wikilink Entertainment Weekly on ref 53
• Wikilink Gaffa on ref 58
• Fix dates formatting on ref 60 for consistency with the article
• Incorrect date on ref 61; it's from 2018 not 2019
• Ref 87 should wikilink IFPI to International Federation of the Phonographic Industry and cite it as a publisher
• Wikilink Monitor Latino on ref 88
• Cite MTV News as a publisher on ref 92 and wikilink it
• Wikilink Dance Spirit on ref 93
• Ref 97 should cite Digg as a publisher
• Cite BBC as a publisher on ref 98 and remove the wikilink
• Remove wikilink to Entertainment Weekly on ref 101
• Cite Vulture as a publisher on ref 104 and wikilink to Vulture.com
• Wikilink Yahoo! Music on ref 107
• Rap Up should be Rap-Up on ref 109
• Should PRISA be a publisher on ref 123?
• Wikilink Paste to Paste (magazine) on ref 125
• Wikilink ref 126 to iTunes
• Cite Tunefind as a publisher on ref 127 and wikilink it; do the former for the following two refs
• Cite IGN as a publisher on ref 130
• Wikilink YouTube on ref 132
• Wikilink iTunes Store on ref 133
• Remove wikilink to Monitor Latino on refs 134, 174, 178, 180, 181, 184, 185, 186, 192, 194, 195 and 196

Should I? Look at the Billboard references. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 15:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Those are formatted auto from tables; you haven't done that for the Billboard year-end charts and these aren't formatted refs in question above

I did it on my previous edit. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:54, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

• Change ref 155 title to "Bruno Mars Chart History (Mexico Airplay)" and remove wikilink on Billboard

I'm not going to remove the wikilink as they keep it on the automatic references. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 15:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

That's fine

• Refs 178, 180, 181, 184, 185, 186, 192, 194, 195, 196 should be fixed on date formatting

 Done except where are questions.

External links

• Good

Overall

• Just an idea, maybe include an image since that is part of the GA criteria?

It is not part of the GA criteria, there is already the cover art and the media. There is no need for more, I could add The Steorypes pic but it is already on "24K Magic" song article and "That's I Like". "Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio". MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

•  On hold for a week as you have already started replying; well-written article but was passed as a GA too easily most definitely. --Kyle Peake (talk) 11:15, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: That is why I needed someone else to review it. Thanks for the help and between tonight and tomorrow I will have it finished. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:53, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I believe I adressed most issues, those which I didn't please take a look and let me know, I did some changes here and there. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:00, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

@MarioSoulTruthFan: Just fix the wikilinking and this'll be done with. --Kyle Peake (talk) 16:49, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Forgot a couple of dates and one wikilink. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:59, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

✓ Pass this article is definitely up to GA standards after changes have been made to it following on from my comments. However, I definitely agree with MarioSoulTruthFan that the initial pass was done blindly and it was far from meeting the GA criteria at that time. --Kyle Peake (talk) 17:02, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 9 May 2024

Finesse (song) → Finesse (Bruno Mars song) – Multiple notable songs named "Finesse" 134.199.113.124 (talk) 21:08, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose – This article has a ~3:1 pageview ratio with "Finesse" (BossMan Dlow song) and "Finesse" (Pheelz song) combined, hinting a WP:PDABPRIMARY.

And, before @Crouch, Swale arrives to rebut this comment by saying something like "a 3:1 pageview ratio isn't enough for a PDAB," this is a combined pageview ratio (meaning that the individual pageview ratios are obviously higher). JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 22:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

• Support, ambiguous. See WP:PDAB. 162 etc. (talk) 01:25, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
• Support a ~3:1 pageview ratio with all the others isn't enough for a PDAB, normally more like 100:1 or 50:1 are expected. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

  As I said above, said ~3:1 pageview ratio is a combined pageview ratio (meaning that the individual pageview ratios are obviously higher). In this case, the Bruno Mars song has a ~6:1 pageview ratio with the BossMan Dlow song and an ~8:1 pageview ratio with the Pheelz song. JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 19:56, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

  You need to accept that your threshold for when partial disambiguation is warranted is much lower than consensus. Crouch, Swale would think a PDAB wouldn't be warranted even if one of the two songs had never existed and it were just a 6:1 or 8:1 with the other one, as would I (support). Repeating this same point over and over in different discussions is not fruitful. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)