Talk:Evening

Reference.com as source?

There's been some backing and forthing with recent edits. I see that some of the recent edits have been supported by cites to reference.com, but that's a third-party source that supposedly derives its information from other sources (sort of what WP does) and it's written in a fairly informal and non-authoritative-seeming way. Are other editors happy with citing reference.com? — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 09:40, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

@Jmcgnh: I would get rid of the reference.com refs but keep the Oxford ref. Here is one more: [1] but as it stands the article could be a candidate for deletion per WP:DICDEF. Your thoughts? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:29, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

I've restored some refs, but excluded reference.com. If editors are going to continue to argue over the timings (as they've been doing for ten years), then perhaps it would be best deleted. Is there much more we can say about the subject? It's hardly more than a stub at present. Dbfirs 18:40, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

@Dbfirs: Whatever timings appear in the article are fine by me as long as they're sourced. I felt that Teletabi's deletions were not accompanied by valid/understandable reasons so that's why I reverted. Perhaps we could pattern the article based on Morning? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:49, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, the article on morning is worth keeping. Would you like to make the improvements to this article? Dbfirs 18:58, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

erst einmal sorry, dass ich nicht so gut deutsch spreche. Daher meine Antwort auf deutsch. Wo steht im Gesetz, dass um 5.pm, 6 pm. 7.pm , oder ab wann der Abend beginnt? Nirgends, deshalb halte ich eine genaue Zeitangabe für unangemessen. Daher empfehle ich die deutesche Wikipedia: der genaue zeitliche Beginn des Abends ist nicht genau bestimmt. Das ist aber kein Löschhinweis, :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teletabi (talk • contribs) 10:10, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

As has already been explained to you, no law is required for articles on the English Wikipedia. We rely on what the best references say. This article certainly needs improving, but not by removing referenced facts. Oxford online is usually considered a good source for the meaning of words in English, and it states 6 p.m. as a possible approximate starting time. I'd be happy to remove the 7 p.m. and clarify that no exact time is implied. The English article already says "There is no precise definition in terms of clock time." Dbfirs 16:49, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

damit wäre ich auch einverstanden. ;) (talk • contribs) 11:54, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Collins online gives both times in a rather vague way. Oxford says 6 p.m. in both the on-line "Lexico" version and the Third Edition (June 2018 update). Where opinions vary, should we not go with the best references? Dbfirs 02:21, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

There is nothing vague about Collins. "Supper is from 5.00 to 6.00 in the evening." Therefore evening starts at 5pm. It is conclusive. This reference is solid. O.E.D reference is actually less clear. " usually from about 6 p.m." is less precise and hardly stands as the best reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.121.247 (talk) 02:32, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

good evening

A conventional expression used at meeting or parting in the evening. --Backinstadiums (talk) 16:03, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

5pm

Can we all just agree 5pm is the answer for start time

Collins is a great source 99.234.150.50 (talk) 21:38, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

you make a great point. 5pm is the start of evening 66.244.218.226 (talk) 03:35, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

What time does it really start?

Seems to be LT content dispute going on here

5pm or 6pm?

Valid refs for both

When does it really start? 207.96.178.53 (talk) 01:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

The Collins reference isn't much use here, it's just a usage example (Supper is from 5.00 to 6.00 in the evening.) to show how the word "evening" can be used in a sentence. It's a poor source for the statement that for some speakers evenings may start as early as 5 p.m.

The OED says esp. the time from about 6 p.m., or sunset if earlier, to bedtime.

There is no single answer, but it may be possible to write a paragraph about that fact. The current Depending on the speaker, it may start as early as 5 p.m. is a bad sentence, though (a new user just changed it, perhaps not unreasonably, to 4pm), and I've removed it. --Belbury (talk) 13:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

good points

Collins is an appropriate reference beyond just word use. If supper is from 5pm to 6pm in the evening, 5pm must be part of evening.

Further content is needed on this important subject!

Is a new section appropriate? 66.244.218.226 (talk) 03:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

added another reference from Britannica to support 5pm 166.48.91.7 (talk) 01:35, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Britannica only offers some approximate times that many people would agree with and precedes it with There is no exact time when each one begins and ends. It's also only an "Ask the Editor" column - the Britannica dictionary definition does not state a time. The OED reference also being cited here says 6pm rather than 5pm (close of day, esp. the time from about 6 p.m., or sunset if earlier), which seems if anything stronger than the Britannica.

The Collins supper is from 5.00 to 6.00 in the evening example tells us that Collins considers 5pm to be part of the evening, but it doesn't tell us when they think it starts - they could think 4.30pm or earlier. This source has been inaccurately used to support 5pm as a start point in past versions of the article.

I'll create a section to put these statements into context. Belbury (talk) 08:21, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Definition

Google say "the period of time at the end of the day, usually from about 6 p.m. to bedtime." It says it's from Oxford Languages, which seems reliable, but there doesn't seem to be a link to the specific dictionary page. Benjamin (talk) 17:55, 18 October 2023 (UTC)