Talk:Electrical double layer

Merging

I propose to merge this article with Double layer (interfacial) under name Electrical double layer. There is a kind of discussion about it, but no clear consensus seen.

Ilya V. Pobelov 20:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Argument for avoiding redirect

I disagree with the redirect of this article to Double Layer (interfacial) for at least two reasons.

1. This article has a good title for the phenomenon it describes.

2. The other article is not very concise. Also, nowhere in the opening paragraph does it even mention that the phenomenon is electrical.

3. The other article isn't general enough. Electrical layers can occur on any electrode in an electrolyte - even if the electrode happens to not be a single solid particle or gas bubble or liquid droplet.

4. The other article has poor grammar.

5. ....

In short: Why not improve this article instead? Then we could deal without the trauma of a big rewrite. ChrisChiasson 20:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Responce to Arguments for avoiding redirect

Yes, I do agree that term "electric double layer" is a good one. The problem was that term "double layer", the best one, was taken completely before by plasma physics. There was a need for that page disambiguation. That is whay I created 2 pages: Double Layer (interfacial) and Double Layer (plasma). I though about term Double Layer (electric) but it does not sounds right.

There might be another way around this. We can move everything from page Double Layer (interfacial) to the page "electric double layer".

If you agree I can make this move. Alternatively, you can do it. DL (interfacial) is much more detail and informative. You can incorporate your few sentences there. I do not mind grammar check either.

A few more points. First of al DL is not only "electric" structure. It is also ions concentrsation structure. Consequently, it would be different water structure because ions bring their "salvating layers", etc.

Secondly, I do think that in addition to "Double Layer (interfacial)", must be "Double Layer (electrode)" for electrochemistry, "Double Layer (membrane)" for biology, "Double Layer (polarised)" for non-linear effects, "Double Layer (biospecific)" for living biological cels as part of transmembrane potential.

That is why I avoided using simple term "electric double layer". It would be very hard to pile all of this on one page.

User:AndreiDukhin 3:43PM, 16 October 2007

Okay. Transfer whatever you feel is appropriate to this article. I'll wait and then I'll try to edit for clarity and grammar.ChrisChiasson 22:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

More comments

I have been thinking about this article and got couple more points. I am sorry for changing my mind, and I appreciate this talk a lot.

First of all Double Layer in Plasma is also "electric double layer". We cannot use this term for colloids exclusively. At some point plasma people would like to use it as well.

Secondly, I folowed WikipediA example with Mercury {...) dismabiguation. I think it is a good way to do this.

Third. I do not think that word colloid should be in the first definition sentence. What about porous bodies? Emulsions? Flat surfaces? etc.

4. EDL is not a verb, it cannot describe. It is a structure.

5. I do not agree with words ...current classical...

6. Helmholtz plane and Stern plane are not the same. It is usually assumeed that Atern layer is under slipping plane.

7. Word ..approximations.. is actually ..assumptions...

8. It is not ...electric permittivity..., it is dielectric permittivity

9. The last asumption is actually not correct because there is a slipping plane in the diffuse layer. Viscosity changes abruptly at this plane.

10. There are several modern theories that remove some of these assumptions. That is why reference to Lyklema book is the best way to avoid more details.

After this more detail analysis I added several your sentences to DL (interfacial).

I have created page DL (electrode) just started

I have created page DL (biology) just started

I do not think that page electric (al) double layer should exist independently. All other scientific disciplines would put claim on it sooner or later, same as on term Double Layer.

I do not mind at all if you correct grammar on existing page DL (interfacial) and others.

User:AndreiDukhin 11:15AM, 17 October 2007 —Preceding comment was added at 15:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)