Talk:Duke of Fife

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Birthdate of Alexander Duff, 1st Duke of Fife: 1840 or 1849? Would a responsible and knowledgable Wikipedian vet this from a printed resource? Two dates are given on-line, and the date has been changed recently here by an anon. editor with a checkered track record. --Wetman 06:21, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

10 November 1849, from Cracroft's Peerage. Proteus (Talk) 10:05, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Lord Carnegie

When the dukedom passed to James Carnegie, am I right in assuming that the title 'Lord Carnegie' merged with the dukedom as a courtesy title? Morhange 03:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes. The two Lordships of Carnegie of Kinnaird and Carnegie of Kinnaird and Leuchars merged along with the Earldom of Southesk and the Barony of Balinhard. Proteus (Talk) 09:44, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Arms

Where have these arms come from? Since the first Earl of Fife, created 1759, until the 2nd sou jure Duchess if Fife (died 1959)The arms have consisted of:-

    Quarterly: 1st & 4th, Or, a Lion rampant Gules, armed and langued Azure (for Duff); 2nd & 3rd, Vert, a Fess dancettée Ermine, between, in chief, a Hart's Head cabossed Or, and in base, two Escallops Or (for Duff of Braco). - ref: Kearsley's Complete Peerage 1799, Burke's Peerage 1914.

The third and current Duke bears (according to Burke's):-

    Quarterly: 1st grand-quarter, Or, a Lion rampant Gules, armed and langued Azure (For Dukedom of Fife; 2nd grand-quarter, The Royal arms difference by a Label of five-points Argent, charged with two Thistles between three Crosses Gules (being the arms of HRH The Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife; 3rd Grand-quarter quarterly, 1st & 4th, Vert, a Fess dancettée Ermine, between, in chief, a Hart's Head cabossed Or, and in base, two Escallops Or (for Duff of Braco); 2nd & 3rd, Gules, three Skeins palewise Argent, hafted and pommelled Or, surmounted by three Wolves' Heads couped Or (for Skene of that Ilk); 4th grand-quarter, Gules, a Banner displayed Argent, charged with a Canton Azure, a Saltire Argent (for Bannerman of Elsick); over all, ensigned with an Earls Coronet proper, an Inescutcheon Argent, an Eagle displayed Azure, armed, beaked and membered Gules, on its breast an Antique Covered Cup (for Carnegie). 

SJH — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.110.49 (talk) 10:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Ireland

OK, so before he was Duke, he was Earl of Fife in the Peerage of Ireland. Why Ireland ? Eregli bob (talk) 16:15, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

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But WAS the first Duke of Fife a member of the Royal Family?

As of the date of this Comment, the article contains the text "The dukedom of Fife was created for Queen Victoria's grandson-in-law, thus for a member of the British Royal Family." It seems unclear to me that marrying a daughter of the Heir Apparent to the Throne makes you a member of the Royal Family, although very likely that marrying the SON of the Heir Apparent to the Throne does. The biggest argument I have against that sentence is that the Duke of Fife's coronet has only the strawberry-leaves that an ordinary Duke (i.e. a non-Royal Duke) has. Had he been a "member of the Royal Family", I think his coronet would have been the coronet of a Royal Duke. (That coronet might not exist, but may be a coronet of the degree of descent from a Monarch. For instance the current Queen's late husband Philip had the coronet of the son of a Monarch despite not being one, because the granting papers said so. At all events the coronet of a Royal Duke is not the same as the all-strawberry-leaves coronet of a non-Royal Duke.) Further, the 1st Duke, if being in the Royal Family, would have had the Style of Address "His Highness" or "His Royal Highness", would he not? And his wife would likewise have acquired that Style of Address the instant that he acquired it. Instead, she seems not ever to have been "Her Royal Highness" but was only "Her Highness", and not until 1905. Also before 1905 she was not "Princess". If her husband the Duke had been "Prince" because his Dukedom was a Royal Dukedom, she'd have been "Princess" from the moment he was so created in 1900, not having to wait until 1905. I admit that my take on this is that the status "member of the Royal Family", the status "Prince", the Style of Address "Your Royal Highness", and a coronet that isn't the same as the all-strawberry-leaves ducal coronet are, GENERALLY, four equivalent expressions of the same thing. If that's wrong, please advise, and please provide some footnoting for the assertion that he WAS "a member of the Royal Family". Your article on him as the 1st Duke doesn't make that assertion. And I say "GENERALLY" above because I'm aware of the fact that the Duchess of Windsor, despite being married to a man who was a "Royal Highness", wasn't supposed to be referred to as "Royal Highness", and that the only thing consistent in heraldry is inconsistency.2600:8804:8800:11F:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 03:48, 19 January 2022 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson