Talk:Dick Cheney/Archive 7

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Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2016

Can someone fix the duplicate term_start1 and term_end1, or just revert the entire sequence of edits which recently added the problem? 98.230.192.179 (talk) 18:45, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Done! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:51, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Acting President of the United States

Should Vice President Cheney have an office in his info box that makes note of the two days he served as Acting President? --Sleyece 12:50, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely not. It had hardly any impact whatsoever and is disingenuous to portray as a lasting part of his legacy. It might be worth mentioning somewhere in this article but is frankly absurd to include in the infobox — which is meant to summarize the most important aspects. Carl Fredrik 💌 📧 15:29, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
He WAS the "Acting President." He officially had that office. He held it twice!--Sleyece 14:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Yes, but it is hardly notable enough to belong in the infobox. His actual impact was negligible, and it is not anything he is well known for. Carl Fredrik 💌 📧 19:37, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Ever heard of the "9 Days Queen?" It doesn't matter if the power or recognition was insignificant, since the office holds the importance. Believe me, I don't want to defend this man, but he DID hold the office twice. It should be noted on his infocard. --Sleyece 14:50, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2016

I recently discovered that CBS New/New York Times poll results differ significantly from Gallup’s. http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Bush_poll_011609.pdf

Therefore, I recommend that the following revision:

REMOVE:

Cheney's early public opinion polls were more favorable than unfavorable, reaching his peak approval rating in the wake of the September 11 attacks at 68 percent.[165] However, polling numbers for both him and the president gradually declined in their second terms,[165][166] with Cheney reaching his lowest point shortly before leaving office at 13 percent.[166][167] Cheney's Gallup poll figures are mostly consistent with those from other polls:[165][168]

• April 2001 – 63% approval, 21% disapproval • January 2002 – 68% approval, 18% disapproval • January 2004 – 56% approval, 36% disapproval • January 2005 – 50% approval, 40% disapproval • January 2006 – 41% approval, 46% disapproval • July 2007 – 30% approval, 60% disapproval • March 2009 – 30% approval, 63% disapproval

REPLACE WITH:

Cheney’s approval numbers have differed among polls.

According to Gallup[165][168], Cheney's early public opinion polls were more favorable than unfavorable, reaching his peak approval rating in the wake of the September 11 attacks at 68 percent.[165] However, polling numbers for both him and the president gradually declined in their second terms,[165][166] with Cheney reaching his lowest point shortly before leaving office at 13 percent.[166][167]

• April 2001 – 63% approval, 21% disapproval • January 2002 – 68% approval, 18% disapproval • January 2004 – 56% approval, 36% disapproval • January 2005 – 50% approval, 40% disapproval • January 2006 – 41% approval, 46% disapproval • July 2007 – 30% approval, 60% disapproval • March 2009 – 30% approval, 63% disapproval

However, CBS News/New York Times found[168]: • March 2001 – 34% favorable, 11% not favorable, 55% undecided/haven’t heard enough • May 2007 – 13% favorable, 39% not favorable, 47% undecided/haven’t heard enough • January 2009 – 13% favorable, 44% not favorable, 42% undecided/haven’t heard enough Consider8 (talk) 22:17, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  04:24, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

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Found guilty of war crimes

Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission (KLWCC): The governance body of the KLWCT was established to oversee and investigate complaints from victims of wars and armed conflict in relation to crimes against peace, war crimes, crimes against humanity and other like offences as recognized under International Law. In November 2011 the tribunal purportedly exercised universal jurisdiction to try in absentia former US President George W. Bush and former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, convicting both for crimes against peace because of what the tribunal concluded was the unlawful invasion of Iraq.[1]

In May 2012 after hearing testimony for a week from victims of torture at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, the tribunal unanimously convicted in absentia former President Bush, former Vice President Dick Cheney, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, former Deputy Assistant Attorneys General John Yoo and Jay Bybee, former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and former counselors David Addington and William Haynes II of conspiracy to commit war crimes, specifically torture. The tribunal referred their findings to the chief prosecutor at the International Court of Justice in the Hague.[2][3]


1."Board of Trustees". Criminalisewar.org. Retrieved December 20, 2011.

2. Holt, Bob (May 15, 2012). "Are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney war criminals? Malaysian court says 'yes'". NewJerseyNewsroom.com. Retrieved 16 May 2012. 3. Holt, Bob (May 15, 2012). "Are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney war criminals? Malaysian court says 'yes'". NewJerseyNewsroom.com. Archived at archive.org. Archived from the original on May — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruins4Ever (talk • contribs) 15:38, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

RfC: Acting President

@Visnvoisnvo: also pinging @Sleyece: and @CFCF: since both were involved in the previous discussion: Should the position of Acting President be included in the infobox? Cheney held the position for several hours on two occasions: June 29, 2002 and July 21, 2007. It should be noted that never did Cheney actually hold the position of President, he merely assumed the powers and duties of the role while Bush was undergoing surgery. Visnvoisnvo recently added the position in the infobox, noting, "Do not change without discussion. This is an historical event. Check out: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney_Letter_2007-07-21." I have since reverted the changes.

Options

  • A) The position of Acting President is included in the infobox
  • B) The position of Acting President is entirely omitted from the infobox
  • C) While the position is not displayed along with other political offices, a footnote is included in the infobox which notes he acted as President

MB298 (talk) 01:02, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Survey

  • I support C. MB298 (talk) 01:02, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
    • changing my vote to B. MB298 (talk) 01:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
  • I support A. User:Visnvoisnvo 21:22, 11 May 2017 (EST)
  • Prefer B, possibly C - Frankly DC's role as president for a few hours doesn't seem to be of real consequence when measured against the rest of his biography. As such, I'd call it trivia, and probably something which shouldn't receive any or much mention in the infobox. NickCT (talk) 12:48, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
  • I support B. It's just not important enough to clutter the infobox. Dbrote (talk) 15:22, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
  • B. A technicality that, while warranted in the article body, isn't sufficiently noteworthy to make it into the infobox. As Dbrote notes, it would be unnecessary clutter. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 00:21, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
  • B., unless a VP 'stood in' for a significant period (weeks ), this is too trivial even for a footnote. Pincrete (talk) 17:09, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
  • B - it's certainly interesting and should be in the article, but unnecessary and confusing for the infobox. Instaurare (talk) 01:01, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
  • Prefer B, or at most C, per NickCT. A few hours in an 8 year presidency, because of surgery, doesn't merit mention here. Called by bot. -Darouet (talk) 01:56, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Discussion

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Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2018

Reason: He was convicted along with Rumsfeld and Bush. [1] 166qq (talk) 02:02, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done please explain your proposed changes in an "please changes X to Y" way. L293D (☎ • ✎) 15:11, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Related discussion taking place at Talk:George_W._Bush#Semi-protected_edit_request_on_6_April_2018. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 15:20, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. —KuyaBriBriTalk 18:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

War crimes material

There was some back and forth over recently added "material" to the lead about war crimes and lies, ect. Can this please be discussed here? Thank you, --Malerooster (talk) 22:00, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Leave it off from the lede. ViriiK (talk) 00:00, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Bill Bailey typo

It should read

Elections In 1978, Cheney was elected to represent Wyoming in the U.S. House of Representatives and succeeded retiring Democratic Congressman Teno Roncalio, having defeated his Democratic opponent, Bill Bagley. Cheney was re-elected five times, serving until 1989. Wyoming people (talk) 04:41, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Indeed. Thanks! So corrected. (Name verified in contemporary newspapers). - Nunh-huh 07:35, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Acting President of the United States

Should Acting President of the United States be included in the infobox for this article? -- Sleyece (talk) 01:00, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Not in the way you tried it. GoodDay (talk) 23:13, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
GoodDay, so you agree that the change needs to be made? Can I count that comment as Support? -- Sleyece (talk) 14:27, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
If you could re-create the infobox here & the infobox of Bush (at that article), I'd show you what I mean. GoodDay (talk) 14:55, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
Dick Cheney
Acting President of the United States
In office
June 29, 2002 – June 29, 2002
PresidentGeorge W. Bush
In office
July 21, 2007 – July 21, 2007
PresidentGeorge W. Bush
46th Vice President of the United States
In office
January 20, 2001 – January 20, 2009
PresidentGeorge W. Bush
Preceded byAl Gore
Succeeded byJoe Biden
-- Sleyece (talk) 20:55, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
I don't think that four hours and twenty minutes are really noteworthy enough for inclusion. During this time, Cheney wrote his grandchildren a letter and apparently did not do much else. Template:Infobox person advises against "inserting dubious trivia in an attempt to fill all parameters."-Ich (talk) 21:48, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

See the second infobox: Here's my proposal for adding acting president. GoodDay (talk) 02:13, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Dick Cheney
46th Vice President of the United States
In office
January 20, 2001 – January 20, 2009
Acting President: June 29, 2002 & July 21, 2007
PresidentGeorge W. Bush
Preceded byAl Gore
Succeeded byJoe Biden
  • Support This is an excellent way to include the necessary information. -- Sleyece (talk) 13:55, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
I still think it'd be disqualified as trivia, but re: the formatting Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Font size states "Avoid using smaller font sizes in elements that already use a smaller font size, such as infoboxes, navboxes, and reference sections." I'd still favor leaving it out.-Ich (talk) 09:07, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
No prob. My first option is for leaving it out, too. GoodDay (talk) 12:36, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
These two may have been AP for a day or less at a time, but they had the power to start a Nuclear Winter during those times. That undoubtedly elevates it to Encyclopedic content and Infobox worthiness. -- Sleyece (talk) 13:55, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
While the fact that Dick Cheney Served briefly on 2 occasions as acting president is noteworthy is noted in the body of this article, its infobox worthiness is, IMO, doubtful. Note, for example, that his official Congressional biography doesn't mention it. Drdpw (talk) 01:06, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  • United States Congress. "Dick Cheney/Archive 7 (id: C000344)". Biographical Directory of the United States Congress.
Two hours as Acting President is One hour and 59 minutes longer than it would take to start WWIII -- Sleyece (talk) 01:16, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The very short time Cheney spent as acting president during which he apparently did nothing of note has little relevance, if any, to his biography. Maybe mention it in the text, but there is no reason to clutter the infobox with this trivia. Deli nk (talk) 16:03, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment Since the U.S. Civil War didn't end with the destruction of the United States and/or the Earth, should all of the articles related to it be nominated for deletion? (I'm just trying to employ your logic here) -- Sleyece (talk) 14:02, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
You are failing badly. Deli nk (talk) 14:14, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm not failing at all. My goal is to build an encyclopedia and a consensus. I am still accomplishing my goal no matter which way this goes. -- Sleyece (talk) 22:41, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment If there is no further opposition, I will make the proposed change, as amended, in three server days. -- Sleyece (talk) 18:36, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
No, it's not okay for you to go ahead and make the change, as consensus to do so does not exist. Drdpw (talk) 00:07, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment, Support, or Oppose please. Please build a consensus. -- Sleyece (talk) 20:39, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment: Sleyece, multiple editors, including myself, have expressed doubts concerning whether the cumulative few hours that Cheney spent as acting president are really noteworthy enough to warrant inclusion in the infobox. You have failed to build an adequate case for its inclusion and have not swayed my opinion. Drdpw (talk) 00:40, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Well, I don't have to build a case for it's inclusion because it's already part of the article. As far as the infobox goes, there is 1 Support and 1 oppose at this time. -- Sleyece (talk) 13:43, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment Are any other users ready to add to the consensus on this issue? -- Sleyece (talk) 15:05, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

@Sleyece:, I see that you have again dismissed the objections of others and have unilaterally declared a consensus for adding acting president data to the infobox, which is not appropriate to say the least. Please revert your edit until and unless there is a Consensus to add the material to the infobox. Drdpw (talk) 05:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

  • Oppose as per my comments above - this kind of trivia does not belong in infoboxes. And, in addition to believing that this shouldn't be done at all, in the unlikely event that a consensus should develop supporting its inclusion, it should not use the <small> tag, as per MOS:ACCESS: "Avoid using smaller font sizes in elements that already use a smaller font size, such as infoboxes, navboxes, and reference sections. In no case should the resulting font size drop below 85% of the page's default font size (i.e. 11.9 px in Vector skin or 10.8 px in Monobook)."-Ich (talk) 17:09, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose – trivia doesn't belong in the infobox. Leave it for his VP section. Corky 17:51, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

I reckon that my proposal isn't going to be adopted. So be it. GoodDay (talk) 02:03, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Re: calling daughter an"open lesbian"

Makes no sense to call someone an "open lesbian." If she were closeted, we would not know she was a lesbian; hence, all known lesbians must be open. I will leave it for further dicussion for now before I change, looking for consensus.Mwinog2777 (talk) 17:34, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Cheney Defeats John Edwards?

What is with the lazy explanation in the opening summary that ridiculously maintains that Dick Cheney defeated John Edwards in the 2004 election? Vice-Presidents have not run against each other since the early 1800s. While correct in that his ticket won, Cheney was a VP candidate on a larger ballot than himself. Anything else is misleading. The presidential candidate is what most people cast their ballot for in a US Presidential Election. The summary needs to be rephrased to indicate that, otherwise the inadequate contention that Cheney beat Edwards should be removed... Regards... Stevenmitchell (talk) 19:42, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree with above; in absence of any discussion over past 1 year, will make the change.Mwinog2777 (talk) 17:37, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Health problems

The entire section on health problems is a little bit disorganized and doesn't flow well. The most confusing paragraph details issues around a popliteal artery aneurysm, and in the same paragraph talks about having "shortness of breath", then a third unrelated point about having a blood clot that was "smaller" with no initial reference to having a blood clot in the first place. In the following paragraph, it is mentioned how he did indeed have a blood clot that was diagnosed by ultrasound, so the comment on the clot being smaller should be after this line. As a new user I'm not sure how to edit this myself, but leaving suggestions to improve the section on health. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benvolo (talk • contribs) 23:36, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

The lede fails to note that Cheney told falsehoods about Iraq

1. There was no operational relationship between Al Qaeda and Saddam: Politifact says Cheney's claim was false [2], and the WaPo fact-checker says Cheney "banged the drum of a possible link, long after the intelligence was discredited."[3]

2. Cheney claimed in 2002 "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."[4] No stockpiles of WMDs were ever found.[5]

3. Cheney claimed in the lead-up to the war, "We will in fact, be greeted as liberators… I think it will go relatively quickly… [in] weeks rather than months."[6]

All of this belongs in the lede. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 11:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, but we need to carefully distinguish and cite "knowingly lied" (or "made a case for the second Iraq War by telling falsehoods with a demonstrable disregard for the actual truth") versus "made a number of claims that have since been disproven." I think his actions rise above the level of "this was what we knew at the time, mea culpa, our intel was bad" considering he was personally involved in undermining intelligence conclusions that did not support the case for the war, but again, we need BLP-quality citations.-Ich (talk) 13:31, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2020

"Cheney was often criticized for the Bush Administration's policies regarding the campaign against terrorism, wiretapping by the National Security Agency (NSA) and torture.[8][9][10]"

sounds like he's against terrorism, against wiretapping, and against torture. Suggested edit:

"Cheney was often criticized for the Bush Administration's policies regarding the campaign against terrorism, and for his support of wiretapping by the National Security Agency (NSA) and of torture.[8][9][10]" 172.117.175.131 (talk) 02:11, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done GoingBatty (talk) 03:00, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2020

Dick Cheney also won MOBO award 90.254.25.16 (talk) 20:58, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. JTP (talk • contribs) 21:03, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Cheney was Acting President of the United States twice. Should this be added?

Acting president of the United States#List of acting presidents under the 25th Amendment DanJWilde (talk) 16:11, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

This article already contains mention of the fact that Cheney served twice during his vice-presidency as acting president. If you are asking about adding acting president to the Infobox, that issue was discussed in the fall of 2018, see: Talk:Dick Cheney/Archive 7#Acting President of the United States. In that discussion, multiple editors, including myself, expressed doubts concerning whether the cumulative few hours that Cheney spent as acting president were noteworthy enough to warrant inclusion in the infobox. Drdpw (talk) 17:55, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Halliburton

Why is there no mention of the Halliburton scandal here? WikiEditorial101 (talk) 01:08, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

There is mention of it in the article. Please describe the specific changes you want to be made in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Drdpw (talk) 02:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2020

Please remove the Category Category:Members of the Cabinet of the United States, as he's already in the sub category Category:United States Secretaries of Defense. 2601:241:301:4360:7023:7923:CA9:6604 (talk) 18:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done TheImaCow (talk) 19:27, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Correct reference to ACLU podcast discussing Movie Vice (Ref 189)

Correct link: https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_podcast_file/al_ep31_adam_mckay_final_mix.mp3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lpm069 (talk • contribs) 10:18, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

wrong pronunciation?

Richard Bruce Cheney (/ˈtʃeɪni/ CHAY-nee;[1] born January 30, 1941)

He is very commonly called CHAY-nee but he has said on TV that the actual pronunciation is CHEE-nee, acknowledging that CHAY-nee is the most commonly used by others. Comid20 (talk) 07:30, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Unnecessarily confusing wording?

This line is confusingly structured and difficult to understand.

" He attended Yale and then the University of Wyoming, at the latter of which he earned a BA and an MA in Political Science."

Perhaps it should read something more along the lines of:

" He attended Yale and then the University of Wyoming, earning a BA and an MA in Political Science at the latter." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dieselonly96 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2021

In the lead, please change "He became at odds with President Bush's position against same-sex marriage in 2004" to "He publicly disagreed with President Bush's position against same-sex marriage in 2004." the phrase "became at odds" is not proper English. 2001:BB6:4713:4858:2036:EDC4:672B:680 (talk) 10:22, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:56, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Education

A editor is attempting to remove Cheney's attendance at several universities (in the infobox) because he did not obtain degrees there. I am aware of no wiki rule that mandates completion of degrees to place there. Furthermore this is long-standing content that is typical for other bios as well. (See Al Gore's bio for example.) And finally the editor has failed to gain consensus for this change. It has been reverted by both me and Calton. The ONUS is on you (not the other way around.Rja13ww33 (talk) 20:13, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2022

Footnote #114 is an expired link. Change the link: https://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/cheney-authorized-libby-to-leak-classified-information-20060209/ to the archive.org link: https://web.archive.org/web/20110804035648/https://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/cheney-authorized-libby-to-leak-classified-information-20060209/ 181.55.61.129 (talk) 23:07, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: Relevant citation has been updated to automatically send the reader to the archived version which was already present within said citation. Cheers! —Sirdog (talk) 18:59, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2022

In the portion of the Dick Cheney article that discusses his being compared to Darth Vader, include the quote from source 184 where he says "After all, Darth Vader is one of the nicer things I've been called recently." 174.83.14.34 (talk) 02:35, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: There is no need to include the quote, as it is sufficiently summarized. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

"Robert B. Cheney" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Robert B. Cheney and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 June 28#Robert B. Cheney until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 23:43, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Pronunciation

It's cheeney not chayney. Chaney is a different but related name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.200.74 (talk) 12:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Wrong. Jibal (talk) 01:49, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
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