Talk:Dear White People

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Justin Simien is an African American[edit]

An edit of mine has recently been undone by User:Jockzain. I disagree with the undoing of my edit and I'm going to follow Wikipedia:BRD to discuss this further. If necessary, we could ask a Wikipedia:3O. According to our edit summaries we have opposing views on whether it is or is not relevant that the writer and director of this film, Justin Simien, is an African American. I'll start by explaining why I believe it is relevant. As I wrote in my edit summary, I believe it is relevant "given the context". What I meant by that is the following. This article is about the film Dear White People. It is about African American students at a college where a riot breaks out over an African American themed party thrown by white students. (As can be read in the Dear White People#Development section, Simien's inspiration comes from his own experience at college.) I haven't seen the film, but given its title and plot description, it appears to deal with racial issues; it distinguishes two ethnic groups, the African Americans and white people. To me, all of the foregoing makes it both relevant and noteworthy that Justin Simien is in fact an African American himself. Jockzain, can you please explain why you believe it is not relevant (in this article), thanks. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 17:55, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, first of all thank you for following Wikipedia's procedure about solving issues regarding edits. The reason I beleive that it is not in the "film" article is that there are lots of other films directed by African American and you will not see this mention specifically in the film's article. It is relevant information but at Justin Simien's own article (unfortunately it is not created yet but I think it will be soon). I know the film is about racial issue but again there are other racial issue related films directed by people of color but you don't see that mention in the film article itself. For example 12 Years a Slave (film).--Jockzain (talk) 18:56, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, films that do not touch racial issues fall outside the scope of the discussion, which means I will ignore your statement that "there are lots of others films created by African American". The lead of 12 Years a Slave (film) mentions that director/producer McQueen is black. It's in a different context, but it's mentioned nonetheless, and if he had not won the Academy Awards it might have still been in there and in my opinion should be. Either way, it makes it a bad example of a film article about racial issues that doesn't mention the director is an African American. The title and plot of 12 Years a Slave also make it different, in that its title isn't specifically addressing an ethnic group and the film is of a historical nature: it is about slavery in 1841, while Dear White People is about present day African American college students; Simien was inspired by his own college experience as an African American. In my opinion, "there are other racial issue related films directed by people of color but you don't see that mention in the film article itself" - if true - is not an argument but merely an observation of what might be the status quo. The lead of John Brown (abolitionist) states he was a "white American abolitionist", there too it's relevant because of the context. Maybe we should ask for a third opinion? --82.136.210.153 (talk) 21:35, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I think a third neutral editor's opinion will be more useful in reaching consensus here.--Jockzain (talk) 22:37, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Response to third opinion request:
I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Dear White People and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

Thank you for inviting a third opinion. I think the inclusion of the words "African American" is desirable. It gives context to the words "inspired by his experience at college" in the Production section, and to the quote in the box beside it. Yes, this fact would be relevant in an article about Simien, but that does not make it irrelevant here. Other than this, Jockzain's rationale is in the nature of WP:OTHERSTUFF. Each piece of other stuff has its own detailed considerations, so such arguments are inherently suspect.

Kind regards, to both of you. Stfg (talk) 11:07, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for giving your opinion to solve this matter. Your opinion make sense to me so I am withdrawing my objection and re-adding the information in the article again. Thanks again, --Jockzain (talk) 11:46, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Stfg, Jockzain, thanks. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 12:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the future, I suggest watching the films in question to speak with more authority on its actual themes. It may be necessary to have a full understanding of what those themes are before debating if the themes are relevant to the topic of conversation. They are often not as obvious as they may seem. Also for future topics, you may want to ask if the reader's understanding would be different if it read that the director were a mix of Asian and Pacific Islander? Or is it only relevant to give the reader an initial positive or negative emotion about the film? In this case the intent behind inserting the directors race seems to be to give a sort of subtext to say, "this director knows (or doesn't know) what he's talking about because he's black." and "if you are just looking at the title and don;t know what this movie is and you are wondering if this is going to be racist against black people, its ok, the director is black." Is that what you want in this article? If so, keep it. if not, don't. 50.156.188.216 (talk) 10:51, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

AmbidexterNH (talk) 15:37, 9 February 2017 (UTC)So, I'm confused. It seemed like Jockzain was going to re-add the redacted portion. I saw the edit, but it's not in the current version. I'd expect after using the third-person process, and stating it would be re-added, that it would be. I think Jockzain needs to add why the re-insertion wasn't done as Jockzain said it would be. Thanks. -Ambi[reply]

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