Talk:Dalmarnock railway station

Refurbishment or Closure?

According to this Glasgow Evening Times article, Dalmarnock station "is being axed and an £11million hub built in its place"; how should this be noted in the article, if at all? --Leigh Hamilton 13:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

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Opening date

1841 is surely a typo that has since been oft repeated beyond Wikipedia. The line could not have opened before the bridge, which is well documented as 1861. Rutherglen–Dalmarnock branch apparently opened in 1861. https://www.railscot.co.uk/Switchback/index.php DMBanks1 (talk) 22:29, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I would definitely support amending it to 1861. Seems likely there was a high level station there, would make sense for it to have opened with the branch and bridge (as the railscot ref indicates), and as you have said 1841 is impossibly early. Crowsus (talk) 00:58, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Butt shows 24 June 1841. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 06:45, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, as the article currently shows. But has a book has never been wrong by accident? That's a single source for that date which other evidence suggests is factually wrong. That's the issue being discussed. Crowsus (talk) 12:02, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

The Dalmarnock station first appears on an 1869 map, https://maps.nls.uk/towns/rec/5011 and was at the time called Bridgeton, due east of French St., and on the south side of Dalmarnock Road. Its absence from earlier 1860s maps is intriguing. I suspect the Rutherglen–Dalmarnock branch was built primarily to carry coal for industrial and household use in Glasgow. If the coal had been hauled north along the Dalmarnock Road, it would have been subject to a highway toll at the toll booth immediately southeast of the station. Probably during the first few years, there was no passenger service and the infrastructure at Dalmarnock was basic.

On an 1882 map, https://maps.nls.uk/view/90721371 the station has moved to the north side of Dalmarnock Road. The original station building remains as a mineral (coal) depot. An 1895–96 map shows the name Dalmarnock Road for the opening of the low-level station, but Bridgeton for the high level, which appears to remain in operation for a year or so. The next station northwest on the new line was called Bridgeton Cross for 70 years. https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707752 The Bridgeton high level station seems to have reopened for a few years in the early 1900s. 1903–04 https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707773 to 1907–08 https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707785

Interestingly, the 1860s station building continued to be called the Bridgeton Goods & Mineral Depot at least until the late 1920s. It was clearly an important coal delivery line because it also served the Glasgow Electricity generating station just south on the route. 1926 https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707893 1927–28 https://maps.nls.uk/view/109707896 DMBanks1 (talk) 16:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Dalmarnock listed as the station name in 1862 publication. https://books.google.ca/books?id=_Bs4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=dalmarnock+junction&source=bl&ots=1sLWqHSZxt&sig=ACfU3U3NjQZ_W0CgX1HO4nJGCLd4cEalTA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5z47H76LpAhXQ3J4KHW8sATIQ6AEwDXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=dalmarnock%20junction&f=false DMBanks1 (talk) 23:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Crowsus and Redrose64: The Glasgow Herald, April 30, 1858, p. 6. Excerpt per Google News Archive
CALEDONIAN RAILWAY COMPANY
An extraordinary meeting of the shareholders of this company was held on Wednesday in the Merchants’ Hall, in accordance with the standing orders of the House of Lords–Wm. Johnston, Esq., in the chair. The SECRETARY read the principal clauses of the Caledonian Railway (Dalmarnock Branch) Bill, from which it appeared that the line was to be completed within four years, and gave powers to the Caledonian Company for the creation of new shares in the stock to the value of £37,000, and borrowing powers to the extent of £12,300. The CHAIRMAN said there had been some complaints by the inhabitants of the east end of Glasgow of the want of railway accommodation for coals and minerals. The Caledonian Railway came down past Rutherglen, but there was no communication between it and Bridgeton, except the stations at the south side and the north side of the town; and the directors thought it would be profitable as well as satisfactory to the merchants, manufactures, and people of the east end, to make a branch a mile in length from Rutherglen to Dalmarnock, with a terminus at the Gas Works, Bridgeton, and thus they would be able to bring coals and minerals, and perhaps passengers, from all the districts of the Caledonian Railway to Bridgeton. He thought it would secure a good paying traffic, and put an end to the complaints of want of accommodation. About three or four years ago, it was proposed to make it, but they were not then in a good pecuniary position to do so….. DMBanks1 (talk) 22:19, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Looks good. I had a look at that archive around the 24 June opening date as Redrose64 added, but in the 1961 editions... but didn't find anything. I would also suggest this map surveyed in 1858 and published in 1863, no line or station. This one dated 1895 labels a new Dalmarnock station on the left branch, the older Bridgeton station on the right branch and the depot at the original location. A more detailed one from '1892-4' does not show any separate name but you can clearly see the footbridges etc serving the left branch platforms (not sure if these are actually useful for aging the versions etc, but definitely interesting to look at). Crowsus (talk) 06:33, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Beeching cuts

The article mentions the station reactivation, but not closure as a result of the Beeching cuts. DMBanks1 (talk) 17:22, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Definition of a station

@Crowsus and Redrose64: Goods branch lines often include warehouses, with their own platforms, but few of these locations ever develop into stations. Am I right in assuming for Wikipedia purposes, we use the word station to mean a stop, which must at least cater for passenger traffic? Do we define the opening of that station as the date when the railway first made it available for use by passengers? DMBanks1 (talk) 16:33, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

That's how I'd define it, personally, since goods stations aren't really notable on their own as far as I know, but that's just my opinion as a pleb, need to defer to experts on the topic. Crowsus (talk) 16:52, 10 May 2020 (UTC)