Talk:Croat Muslims

	This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
	This article was accepted on 16 December 2013 by reviewer MatthewVanitas (talk · contribs).

Croatia Mid‑importance

	Croatia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ethnic groups Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Meta-tasks:
- Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project.
- Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups
Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution:
Start an article:
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

Islam Low‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

problems[edit]

There seems to be a lot of WP:CFORK issues here, because I distinctly remember reading several of these paragraphs in other articles. Furthermore, the image caption that I just fixed points to either gross incompetence or a lack of good faith. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:35, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Name change?[edit]

Shouldn't this page be called "Croatian Muslims"? It would fit with Croatian Catholics, Croatian Jews, Croatian Buddhists, etc. It appears to me the name is trying to note the ethnicity and religion together without confusing them with other Croatian Muslims (who are ethnically Bosniak, Macedonian, Albanian), but I believe "Croatian Muslims" is still the appropriate term to use. Thoughts? --Jesuislafete (talk) 18:52, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this article is about Muslims of Croat origin. Croatian Muslims are every Muslim who lives in Croatia. But this article is not about Bosniaks, Albanians, Roma, Arab immigrants, living in Croatia. The article is about ethnic Croats - Muslims who are self-declared as ethnic Croats - descandants of Catholic Croats which converted to Islam during the Ottoman period. Everyone who lives in Croatia is a Croatian, but everyone is not a Croat. Jews, Albanians, Bosniaks, Roma, Serbs, Hungarians, Italians, immigrants from Asia, etc. which lives in Croatia today are not ethnic Croats - they are ethnic minorities.

There is a similar page about Greek Muslims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Norrskensstämmor (talk • contribs) 01:43, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

An article about citizens of Croatia of any ethnicity who adhere to Islam would be titled Croatian Muslims. However this article does not really talk about them. It talks about members of an ethnic group (Croats) who also happen to be Muslim. Hence Croat Muslims and this article. That said, I find this concept to be very problematic. Anyone familiar with this region knows that Croat/Bosniak/Serb are more often than not practically regarded as ethnoreligious groups. Although not all ethnic Croats are religious, those who are almost exclusively self-describe as Roman Catholic, and the same could be said about ethnic Bosniaks (who are Muslim) and Serbs (who are Orthodox). The idea that people in Bosnia who adhere to Islam are in fact ethnic Croats albeit of a different religious tradition is something that had been espoused by the WW2 Independent State of Croatia regime which used is as justification for its annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and has been totally rejected since. In addition, the rather interesting 2011 census crosstab published by the statistics office says that out of around 63,000 Muslims in the country (1.47% of total population) only 9,467 also thought of themselves as ethnic Croats (so only 15% of all self-described Muslims in the country and about 0.22% of total population). And the group is neither recognized as a minority by law nor do they have any organization which would define their identity. The only organisations that pop up in a Google search mentioning "Croat Muslims" are not in Croatia or Bosnia at all - they all seem to be some obscure "centres" located overseas exclusively. It seems to me that the idea of "Croat Muslims" exists only in the minds of people for whom World War II never ended and possibly some of their exiled descendants. And the article does very little in the way of discouraging my belief since it devotes most of its body to World War II era and the likes of Muhamed Hadžiefendić and Džafer Kulenović. With all that in mind, I simply don't see how this can pass our notability criteria. At best this is an article about an obscure ethnnoreligious cross-grouping of people no more relevant in number than say Croat Protestants (8,042) and pretty much devoid of any communal identity. At worst this is a piece of nationalist propaganda posing as the former. Timbouctou (talk) 22:47, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd kill this article, merging the content into either Bosniaks of Croatia or Islam in Croatia or Bosniaks, etc.

Also, I really dislike the unsourced inclusion of living people in the infobox. GregorB (talk) 11:32, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deletation[edit]

I think this article shouldn't be on Wikipedia. It's unrealistic. Anyone can made up something and than find chary picked sources. It's absolutely silly for an encyclopedia to have an article such as this one. And I agree with GregorB, article should be incorporated in Islam in Croatia. --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 18:36, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Croats, like Bosniaks and Serbs also converted to Islam in small numbers, and besides that, there has always existed Slavic-speaking Muslims which has had a Croat ethnic identity, just as there are today, according to the latest published data from the 2011 Croatian census. I honestly do not know what would be unrealistic in this article. Many prominent personalities in the history of the Ottoman Empire were of Croat ethnic origin; Rüstem Pasha, Piali Pasha, Murat-beg Tardić, Kuyucu Murad Pasha, Yunus Pasha, and so on. Even though I'm a Bosniak, I would like to see a similar article about Serb Muslims.

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Croat Muslims. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:38, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]