Talk:Clair Huxtable/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Aoba47 (talk · contribs) 15:19, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Grabbing this for a review. Aoba47 (talk) 15:19, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll try to have my comments up by the end of the day. Aoba47 (talk) 17:03, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Images
  • Please provide an ALT description for the Infobox image. Please do the same for the rest of the images in the article as well.
  • I am not sure the image of Phylicia Rashad is necessary for this article for the following two reasons: 1) the infobox image shows a clear image of the actress (I would only advise adding a separate image of the actor if he or she is providing a voice for an animated feature or is under so much prosthetic/make-up work that he or she is not recognizable) and 2) the infobox image provides a more accurate image of the actress during the time she played the character and an image of Rashad over a decade later is not that helpful for a reader, at least in my opinion.
  • Removed, the image was there before I had actually found a suitable image for the infobox.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:53, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Infobox and lead
  • For the infobox, expand on the sections on her first and last appearances (add the season and episode number).
  • Provide the exact date for the premiere in the first paragraph of the lead.
  • I would change the last sentence of the second paragraph to “and was required to conceal her pregnancy during episode tapings.” This is a subtle difference, but I believe you can read the current wording as it was a given that she had to hide her pregnancy on the show when there are plenty of instances where pregnancies were written on to a show due to the actors being pregnant. In my rewording, I believe it shows that it was required more so for this individual case. I could just be reading too much into this though so that is why I made a note here rather than change it directly.
  • I'm not so sure it's necessary, but sure I changed it to your version anyway
  • Thank you. You do not have to agree with it just because I suggested as I could be reading too much into it. Aoba47 (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I do not believe the “until Clair offers him some perspective” is necessary as that is assumed in the “early confrontations” bit.
  • The following phrase (despite her continued success as an actress Clair remains the role for which she is best known) reads awkwardly as the first half is reference Rashad and then you talk about Clair. If you read this sentence, you are saying that Clair had continued success as an actress, which is obviously not the case.
  • "Rashad was nominated for two Emmy Awards for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy Series. Despite the actress' continued success, Clair remains the role for which she is best known."?--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:53, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would cut “Meanwhile” in the fourth paragraph as it is vague and unnecessary.
Role and family
  • I do not believe that matriarch needs a WikiLink, especially to “matriarchy” as I believe that connection is a bit of a stretch. Clair is a matriarch in terms of that she is the mother, but not in terms that she literally lives in a matriarchal society.
  • I understand the purpose behind “hardworking” and “devoted” in the second sentence of the first paragraph, but be careful of POV issues. I do not believe that these adjectives are necessary as they can make this appear more like a fan wrote it rather than emulating an encyclopedic tone. I would keep this in mind throughout the article as well.
  • This is something I've been known to do unintentionally with some of my articles by stating quotes from references a little too bluntly; I'll look out for this. Removed both.--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:04, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. You do a lot better job than me regarding this. Aoba47 (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It may be beneficial to WikiLink “obstetrician” in the same section.
  • I do not know if “love interests” is necessary for the second paragraph. I think you can cut it and just say “Sondra and Denise’s husbands…”
  • I'll have to disagree; I specifically referred to them as "love interests" because, especially in Elvin's case, I wanted to in some way disclose that he and Sondra are not married from the very beginning of the series without saying something like "boyfriend-turned-husband", if that makes sense. Thoughts?--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:04, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Understandable. I was confused as I originally read it as an unnecessary repetition, but I see your point and agree with you that it should remain the same. Thank you Aoba47 (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last sentence of the third paragraph is placed a little awkwardly. It is a good sentence, but could you find a way to make it fit a little more naturally as it just stands out from the rest of the paragraph, especially saying the character’s birth name at the very end. I cannot think of a suggestion, but I wanted to point this out to you.
  • I opted for placing it right at the beginning of the section instead, changing it to "Born Clair Olivia Hanks, Clair is a graduate of the fictional Hillman College located in Georgia, the school at which she first met and fell in love with Dr. Heathcliff "Cliff" Huxtable." Removed the part about Denise eventually attending the same school because it's not entirely necessary (at least until I can figure out how to phrase it).--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:04, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the placement gave the sentence a little more context. The Denise part could eventually be reworked in there if you find an appropriate place (it can be after the GA review is complete if you would prefer). Aoba47 (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Development
  • The phrase “the show’s parents” sounds a little odd to me and I would suggest revision. For a second, I was not certain what you were referencing.
  • It said "The role of the show's parents in particular evolved..." who else could I be referring to lol? Changed to "The role of the parents in the show evolved dramatically...".--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:19, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it was because I was thinking you were referring the show as a physical entity, like the show's producers or writers so I was a little confused. Thank you for the comment. Aoba47 (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would suggest “use the language” rather than “understand the language” as Clair does speak it every now and then if my memory is right and understand implies more of a passive listener rather than an active speaker.
  • I would paraphrase “more to do” as the quote does not seem that necessary.
  • Could you expand on the last sentence of the “Conception and writing” subsection? What new emotions are being referenced?
  • Negative. Wish I could, but I can't really "expand" without venturing into original resource; the source only says that Cosby began developing new emotions for the character to experience, but the article does not mention the emotions specifically. The same article does say that Clair began receiving more comedic material, but that has more-so to do with Rashad's portrayal than the character's emotions so I've included that in the "Casting" section instead.--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:19, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • No worries, just wanted to make sure. It is fine as it currently stands. Aoba47 (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is the makeover WikiLink entirely necessary?
  • Nope, removed.
  • Spell out 3 in “Season 3” or just use “the third season”.
  • Done.
Characterization and themes
  • I would recommend add “is portrayed as both composed and maternal” to avoid it sounding too much like a fan praising the character.
  • I would advise looking through the first sentences of the “Personality and parenting style” subsection to avoid making it sound too much like praise for the character. I am pointing to specifically the second and third sentences. The same applies the last sentences of the same subsection. I would reword these to make them sound more like an encyclopedia.
  • Should it be $11,000 (with the comma)?
  • I've never been quite sure if Wikipedia uses commas or just spaces for large numbers, but I've changed it to include the comma :)--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:38, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have never been quite sure either as I have never used it in one of my articles. Feel free to change it if another user says differently. Aoba47 (talk) 14:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would cut the transition "Lastly” as I do not find it necessary (reads more like something used for an essay rather than here).
  • I do not believe that the links to “scrambled eggs”, “overindulgent” “underachieve” and “wedding shower” as they are pretty common words.
  • Thank you. I have definitely done that lol Aoba47 (talk) 14:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Spell out 1 in “Season 1” or use “first season”
  • I am not sure that sentences like “Clair typically returns home from work at approximately 6:00 pm” are necessary for this. I would remove that sentence in particular and look throughout the article to these types of sentences to prevent too much trivial or overly praise parts.
  • A lot of the second and third paragraph of the “Beliefs, feminism and career” subsection reads a little bit too much like an essay to me rather than something from an encyclopedia. I think it is primarily because Clair is referenced as the subject rather than how critics or the cast/crew saw these moments. Hopefully, this makes sense, but this section just seems off to me.
  • I've always meant to return to this section to fix it up because I agree, but kind of forgot about it while completing other portions of the article. Hope the current version reads better.--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:38, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. It does read better. Thank you! I just want to clarify that the original wording was good too, but just want to make it as strong as it can possibly be. The fact that you did all of this really quickly is very commendable. Aoba47 (talk) 14:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Critical reception
  • I would distinguish the “spared criticism” part as “spared harsh criticism” as every character gets criticism in some form, but it is just that this character did not receive that much to report. As it currently stands, it sounds somewhat contradictory to say she did not receive criticism and then later on say that she received criticism in the same paragraph.
  • I am confused by the topic sentence for the last paragraph as there does not seem to be anything directly about Rashad’s performance in the season. It just seems to be more general praise for Rashad’s performance, so you could change the topic sentence to better reflect that.
  • Done, removed "in the eighth season", not quite sure what happened here.--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:48, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. I am sure you had an idea at the time and maybe it didn't work out and you forgot to remove it. I have done that far too many times to count lol Aoba47 (talk) 14:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Impact and legacy
  • Who is the person/publication saying this in the first sentence? It is rather large claim so you could either say “by media outlets” or “by television critics” or “by television commentators” but there needs to be something there.
  • I would break second paragraph into two with the “Conversely” line being the new topic sentence for the next paragraph.
  • Done.
  • The “So impactful” transition appears too much like a fan and I would suggestion a replacement. Same goes for “So popular and respected”.
  • Agreed, removed "So impactful has Clair's influence on pop culture been that several woman still aspire to be like her" altogether actually because the entire sentence sounded, I dunno, a little unnecessary.--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:48, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you, and I agree with the removal. Aoba47 (talk) 14:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The following sentence (Having portrayed the character for eight years, Clair remains the role for which Rashad is best known as an actress, establishing herself as a television icon throughout the 1980s for portraying "the working mom who had it all".) needs to be altered in the same way that I mentioned in a previous section. The sentence does not make sense in its current version. Clair is not portraying the character for eight years.
  • Thank you. Sounds better or I should say reads better lol Aoba47 (talk) 14:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the fact that Camille suggest Cosby to hire Rashad relevant to this article? I would suggestion removal, and put a topic sentence on the connections made between Clair and Rashad or something along those lines.
  • Done. "Rashad and Cosby's professional relationship continued beyond The Cosby Show", and inserted into the middle of the paragraph instead.--Changedforbetter (talk) 06:48, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The information about Telma Hopkin does not seem relevant to this article. The bit of Ruth Lucas kind of works, but you do not want to go too much into detail about a completely different character.
  • The bit about Michelle Obama is cool, but I would place it a more appropriate section (maybe the previous paragraph about the influence of the character on real people).
Final comments
  • Great work with the article. I can tell you put a lot of time and energy into transforming this from a stub. My only concern is the POV issues, where parts of it somewhat sound like it is coming from a fan or too in-universe for the section. Let me know when you are address my comments, and I will go through it again. Also, let me know if you need clarification on any of these points. Aoba47 (talk) 01:54, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wonderful work on the article. As someone who watched the show a lot when I was younger and had a more personal connection to the character (Clair always reminded me of my own mom lol), I was very happy to read through this as it is a very interesting and informative article. It makes me want to do a new fictional character project lol. Good luck with your work on the Gaston (Disney) page and other future projects and I look forward to working with you further in the future. ✓ Pass Aoba47 (talk) 14:27, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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