Talk:Cambodia/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Religion?

How about a little on religion? Thnx, Athana

I put a little. There should be more. Contemporary Cambodia is HUGELY based on Theravada Buddhism.Pwordisony (talk) 03:35, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Nothing Major

Tidied up a little - seemed a little messy in patches for a feature article. A couple of typos, some vandalism and some inaccuracies - "great districts" indeed. Was a little US-centric so I added a couple of donors and a link to the TI corruption index. Hope nobody minds these changes. I have two additional suggestions for discussion:

1. The corruption links are now rather repetitive and, again US/UK centric, should these be cut down and the text expanded slightly instead? 2. Islands are not an administrative division in Cambodia. However, 'Sangkat', 'Quartier', 'Village' (added already) and even 'Group' are. Perhaps we could re-arrange this section to reflect and list administrative divisions (and the numbers of each from the Census). Then the list of Islands could be removed entirely thus neatly sidestepping the issue of territorial boundaries? In addition, we could then add a para on territorial integrity and disputes - a VERY hot issue in Cambodia today. What do you think? Paxse 15:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Archive + External Links

Are ballooning again. I'm in the mood to prune. Any objections to pruning or suggestions for a maximum number of external links?

I've archived the previous 2.5 years of discussion - see box at page top. Paxse 13:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know who put the airport information in this article but there are only 2 functioning airorts in Cambodia. Most of the "airports" listed in the article are nothing but overgrown ruins now. Even the Sihanoukville airport is months away from completion

• No, there are more than two airports in current use. Even the first flight to the refurbished Sihanoukville airport happened ages ago [1]. Also just because commercial carriers don't fly to a destination, doesn't mean the airport doesn't "function" or no longer exists. There is still a lot of charter traffic to many provincial airports. I'm reverting your deletion of other airports in Cambodia. Paxse 13:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Paxse, this IP is a known vandal. They don't usually target this article, but this edit came in the middle of one of their little sprees. Your revert was completely correct, and sadly explaining anything to them is probably slightly more pointless than smashing your hand with a hammer. Natalie 14:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I see they've still been busy. I recently found 20 airports - 6 paved and 14 unpaved from a government source but note that we are back down to 4 in the article - I surrender! Paxse 10:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Flora and fauna

Why there's no mention of flora and fauna of Cambodia in the geography section, nor the geography article? Cambodia is very famous for its biodiversity, which is of first-class in the world. One example is Cambodia holds the largest concentration of the indochinese tiger and southeast asian gaur in the region, 2 flagship conservation species:

(link removed ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 16:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC))

I think flora and fauna are important point and should not be neglected.

While the flora and fauna is diverse, they is not soley endemic to Cambodia. Unless you can find plants and animal that are exclusice to Cambodia, such information would be included under Southeast Asia instead.--PikachuGyeong (talk) 03:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)Pika

Fair use rationale for Image:Pol Pot.gif

Image:Pol Pot.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:28, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Links`

I've cleaned up the links. To all editors, if you want to add any more links, please read Wikipedia:External links before you do. If you are a webmaster of a Cambodia-related website, please do not add it to Wikipedia. That's self-promotion, instead try adding it to Dmoz. Cambodia/Archive 2 at Curlie --Dara 03:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Population and Land area

The last accurate Cambodian population figures are from the Inter-Censal population survey which has a reference date of March 3, 2004. Anything else is a 'projection' (i.e. a guess). Then the Population was 13,091,000 (after some political juggling upwards from 12.82 million) and the population growth rate from 1998 to 2004 was 1.81% with fertility declining. The Phnom Penh population was 1,044,000. We'll soon have more up to date figures (and hopefully an end to incremental population exaggeration) next year when the census is conducted. The land area of Cambodia is 181,035 km² and has been for quite some time - in fact the government recently got quite upset with the webmaster of the ASEAN website who rounded off the 35 km² [2] . Therefore we should be a little careful with the numbers to avoid any diplomatic incidents :) This number is unlikely to change any time soon so should not need constant revision. Please help to revert any numbers which don't match these basic facts - a few weeks ago the country info box was up to 14.9 million and today the article lead had 15 million and a doubled Phnom Penh population. Btw Tourist brochures (and websites) are more propaganda and advertising than fact - don't use them as sources. Try [3] instead. Cheers, Paxse 10:25, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Paxse on the last statement about propaganda. I'm Cambodian- American and I've been to Cambodia twice. I've learned a few things. Cambodia still has corruption but a tourist can make a vacation there as good as it can be if you know how to be cautious. Don't believe what some things say. Do your own research about it or even ask someone who's been there. I think tourism really boosted the country's economy, obviously, but be careful when you get there.

Scouting in Khmer script

Can you help render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Khmer script? Thanks! Chris 03:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC) CAMBODIA IS A GOOD PLACE TO GO AND THE PEOPLE THERE ARE VERY NICE PEOPLE. (= GIVE THEM CHARITY MONEY!!!!!! THANK YOU. HAVE A GREAT DAY IN CAMBODIA!!! (= —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.72.79 (talk) 06:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Deletion vote

Please see the deletion vote at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Taiwanese Americans. Badagnani 02:59, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Province size table

I'm proposing we lose the recently added table with provincial sizes and total land area. Most of the information already appears elsewhere in the article and the all caps formatting is not pretty. Basically it just adds another bare (unreferenced) list to the article. Comments? Paxse 15:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Official Languages

Khmer and French are listed as Cambodia's official languages, but I see no reference. The CIA factbook lists only Khmer.[4] Does French have any official status in the country? Any references? AnthroGael (talk) 12:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

French is only official along the Seine. They should stop thinking about francophonie or whatever they call this French nightmare. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.2.139.158 (talk) 22:17, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

French is not an official language in Cambodia. However it is a widely studied language and used some by the government. Cambodia was actually one of the founding countries of the Francophonie. According [5], Khmer is the only official language in the country but there's no law regarding language. And yes, French is only official along the Seine, if you consider places like Canada, New Caledonia, Haïti, Madagascar, Vanuatu, Congo*2, Sénégal, Côte d'Ivoire etc. to be "along the Seine". Take a look at this List of countries where French is an official language. Aaker (talk) 15:36, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Khmer Rouge6.jpg

Image:Khmer Rouge6.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The motto in the infobox

It should be written without a "។". The current one is ជាតិ សាសនា ព្រះមហាក្សត្រ។, while the correct one is ជាតិ សាសនា ព្រះមហាក្សត្រ --គីមស៊្រុន (talk) 02:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

unsorted refs moved from article page

• Business in Asia report on airports. Accessed November 13, 2005
• Cambodian Culture website Accessed December 11, 2004
• Cambodian Economy Information Accessed January 19, 2005
• CIA World Factbook U.S. Department of State website
• Encyclopaedia Britannica's Cambodia Country Page
• Fredenburg, P. and B. Hill. 2006. Sharing Rice for Peace and Prosperity in the Greater Mekong Subregion. Sid Harta Publishers, Victoria. ISBN 1-921206-08-X. pp271
• IFES Summary of 2003 legislative election results. Accessed January 27, 2005
• Jahn GC. 2006. The Dream is not yet over. In: P. Fredenburg P, Hill B, editors. Sharing rice for peace and prosperity in the Greater Mekong Subregion. Victoria, (Australia): Sid Harta Publishers. ISBN 1-921206-08-X. p 237–240
• Jahn, GC 2007. Rice and life along the Mekong River. Rice Today 6(2):4.
• Kerlogue, Fiona Arts of Southeast Asia. Thames and Hudson 2004. ISBN 0-500-20381-4
• Ministry of Tourism statistics on tourism. Accessed January 27, 2005
• NGO Forum on Cambodia report on 2003 legislative elections. Accessed January 27, 2005
• Puckridge, D. 2004. The Burning of the Rice. Sid Harta Publishers, Victoria. ISBN 1-877059-73-0. pp326
• Radio Broadcasting in Cambodia Accessed January 23, 2005

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Calliopejen1 (talk • contribs) 20:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Tuol Sleng

Is "as notorious as Auschwitz" strictly accurate? It patently isn't as notorious as Auschwitz, as a Google search will tell you.User:LaFoiblesse 2008-11-15 00:01 (GMT)

Rather depends on your personal perspective, in Cambodia few people have heard of Auschwitz. Paxse (talk) 09:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

International rankings

I just cleaned up the last link on this table - which was actually two weblinks to some kind of stat aggregator website. The long links screwed up the table formatting, making everything take up double the required space. This has been fixed. However, I'd like to lose the Terrorism ranking entirely - what do the other Cambodia watchers feel? It's not a well recognized ranking, I can't determine from the website how they even calculate their figures. It looks like it could have been a bit of self promotion by someone connected to the website. Any comments or objections before I kill it? Cheers, Paxse (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. Paxse (talk) 09:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Pre-emptive referencing

I'm constantly surprised that Cambodia hasn't yet been de-listed as an FA due to the lack of referencing. Don't get me wrong - I don't want that to happen. But it occurs to me that some pre-emptive referencing would be a good idea. Currently, this FA has about the same number of references as a new GA nomination. I will try to add some from time to time (and update the info, which is out of date in places). I know that many editors have this FA watchlisted, if any of you feel enthusiastic, some referencing help would be welcome. Cheers, Paxse (talk) 11:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I think I've fixed the link rot for now - all the current references seem to be live. Paxse (talk) 15:57, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

(Flag of Cambodia).[Flag of Cambodia] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.164.238.151 (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

History

Some of the information in the history section is outdated. Can someone revise it?Pwordissony (talk) 00:07, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Size of the pictures

This pictures are tooooo big for a Featured Article. If this situation isn't solved, I recomemd a revision of the FA status of Cambodia. Califate123! (talk) 22:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Transport damaged by wildlife?

This is an interesting statement:

"The civil war and wildlife severely damaged Cambodia's transport system,"

but it leaves much to the imagination. Any examples of wildlife damaging the transport system? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.4.10 (talk) 17:39, 31 January 2009 (UTC) It was elephants I tell you, elephants! The buggers can really mess up a newly paved road :) Paxse (talk) 20:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

2008 Population Update

Preliminary totals are available from the 2008 census - down to provincial level only. I've updated the numbers and added the reference here and to each of the provincial articles. The magic number is 13,388,910. The population growth was also revised downwards markedly. So, this means that other sites, like the blasted CIA fact book, have got it wrong, wrong, wrong. Please don't add their outdated 'guesstimates' to this article. See reference 2 for the real deal. Cheers, Paxse (talk) 14:43, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Education

Not sure how it could be fitted in but should it not be mentioned that Cambodian history from the French occupation to the present day is not taught in schools? Apparently it is a deliberate policy and even libraries carry no books on the subject in their own language. Wayne 18:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Gidday Wayne. I think someone may have given you a bum steer. Modern Cambodian history is taught in government schools and books on history are available in libraries - there aren't many libraries around but that's a different problem. Interestingly school textbooks printed in the '80's were very full-on in their description of Pol Pot/Ieng Sary evildoing (when the Vietnamese-backed government was seeking legitimacy). The later revisions have toned it down a little. I know 'cos I have most of the school textbooks from either my kids or various young in-laws. Like you I'm a history nut and was fascinated to see how Khmer history was taught to Khmer. :) Cheers, Paxse 18:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

"Full on..." is one description. Another would be "...to the exclusion of all other possible names". Mocern Cambodian history is taught in government schools. Beginning at Jan 7, 1979, with couple of prequels involving 1953/4. You may have the books, but very few teachers or students actually open them. I know because I have always known more Cambodian history than any of my students in Phnom Penh have. They can't even give the most basic name/date info. Not sure how this helps, but that fact is young Cambodians are unbelievably ignorant of their own history.KhProd1 (talk) 03:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Genocide

This article assumes there was genocide in Cambodia. There is a serious legal issue in the Extraordinary Chambers of the Courts of Cambodia right now as to whether the word "genocide" is accurate. There were mass killings, certainly, but the actions of the Khmer Rouge may have been too reckless to qualify as "genocidal intent" under the Genocide Convention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.60.14.123 (talk) 11:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes. I would suggest Noam Chomsky's work on Cambodia, perhaps his book "manufacturing consent". For instance the claim that estimates for deaths are between 1 and 3 million people. There is certainly some controversy there. The whole section on Cambodia's modern history needs redrafting in a more neutral and factual way. 02hurnella (talk) 18:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Who needs a western writer's opinion? Why not just quote the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia? After all, they are currently actively engaged in the process of deciding whether or not genocide did or did not take place. As yet none of the Charged Persons have been charged with Genocide. There have, however, been charges of Crimes Against Humanity laid against five people so far and Criminal Enterprise seems to be in the offing for more than a couple.KhProd1 (talk) 03:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Reforms

This comment was posted in the main body by 81.101.41.238 (Talk):

"Please state what economic reforms these refer to, you can't just call them "reforms" and call it progress - I'm sure not not everyone would call privatisation and deregulation and increased corporate exploitation "progress" - are those the kind of reforms Cambodia has been implementing? Please state the nature of the reforms and on what grounds you judge them to count as "progress", I'm sick of reading articles that mention "reforms" without stating what those reforms are - usually because they are of a market-fundamentalist nature. Enough of the euphemisms please."

This comment was stated next to the phrase here (Cambodia):

"The recovery of Cambodia's economy slowed dramatically in 1997–98, due to the regional economic crisis, civil violence, and political infighting. Foreign investment and tourism also fell off drastically. Since then however, growth has been steady. In 1999, the first full year of peace in 30 years, progress was made on economic reforms and growth resumed at 5.0%. Despite severe flooding, GDP grew at 5.0% in 2000, 6.3% in 2001, and 5.2% in 2002. Tourism was Cambodia's fastest growing industry, with arrivals increasing from 219,000 in 1997 to 1,055,000 in 2004. During 2003 and 2004 the growth rate remained steady at 5.0%, while in 2004 inflation was at 1.7% and exports at $1.6 billion USD. As of 2005, GDP per capita in PPP terms was $2,200, which ranked 178th (out of 233) countries."

Ste900R (talk) 18:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

There were no reforms. There was simply renewed investment. I challenge anybody to find a referenced "economic reform" with verifiable results anywhere on the web.KhProd1 (talk) 03:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Intro

85-90% of the population are involved in rice farming. Rice growing and processing (or agriculture, more broadly) is therefore the major industry, in terms of participation and economic impact, as the economy section alludes to further down, but is not mentioned in the intro. Any problems if the intro is changed? thanks Allanshorty (talk) 01:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

As long as you provide an up to date citation.Pwordisony (talk) 21:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Did that, now gone. An intro statement about Cambodia that fails to mention agriculture is superficial and in this case, erroneous. Garments, tourism and unextracted oil and gas are far less important to livelihoods, culture, land use etc. Would flip it back but dunno how. Too bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Allanshorty (talk • contribs) 05:09, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I think someone has screwed with this page a little bit

I.E. "Fake" and "NOT TRUE". I don't know how to fix it but just thought I'd bring attention to it for the people that moderate it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.128.16 (talk) 02:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Go to the <history> page, click the top line and it will show you a side-by-side comparison. Then all you have to do is hit the <undo> button and it will remove the last change. Which has been done.KhProd1 (talk) 03:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Politics and government

I dispute the comment "Human Trafficking" as a key issue (Huge issues that plague contemporary Cambodia include human trafficking, deforestation and forced evictions). It quotes no source and is inaccurate.

Following the US-sponsored anti-Human trafficking operations in Cambodia during 2008, the independent statistics bore out the fact 80% of alleged "trafficked persons" were not trafficked, but economic migrants. The entire Anti-trafficking program is now in tatters after widespread police abuse took place, including widespread false imprisonment, robberies and gang rape of women in two prisons. There are verifiable cases studies to show non-trafficked women became trafficked by the Anti-trafficking program. As of May 2009, the Phnom Penh Police have returned to the indiscriminate arrest of women and homeless: May of the women arrested around Wat Phnom were not prostitutes but local women returning home.

It would be better to replace human trafficking with Corruption which is probably the single biggest problem facing the country today.

Phnom Penh resident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.15.90.194 (talk) 10:18, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

If you're going to characterise something as "un-sourced", it'd be a good idea to source your counter-argument. Yes, the Cambodia Daily and Phnom Penh Post have alleged massive irregularities in the Criminal-Justice system dealing with prostitution since the introduction of the recent "anti-trafficking" law. However, they did not document gang-rape in "prisons", they alleged it in two "social re-location and rehabilitation" centres (Prey Speu etc) that were, allegedly, being operated as de facto prisons. Your argument deliberately avoids the fact that "economic migrants" to places such as Thailand are Trafficked Persons and not a small number of them end up in indentured servitude on Thai boats.

Yes, corruption is the largest single key issue, but Human Trafficking should not be taken off the list in its favour.KhProd1 (talk) 03:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

"If you're going to characterize something as "un-sourced", it'd be a good idea to source your counter-argument.". It is the obligation of the original author to provide documentation, which they have not done as it says in the edit panel "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable.".

"Your argument deliberately avoids the fact that "economic migrants" to places such as Thailand are Trafficked Persons and not a small number of them end up in indentured servitude on Thai boats." The published 20% figures of trafficked persons took account of the Thai boat crew servitude - the 80% number the Khmer authorities classified as trafficked (using the heavily criticized US TIP model) has been proven by independent agencies such as ILO and WHO, to be wrong: Those rural migrants arriving in the city in search of work, those sleeping in tuk-tuks or living rough on the street are still classified as trafficked - clearly, an individual relocating from rural to urban environment through personal choice cannot be trafficked, a term which by legal definition requires a third party - one cannot commit the crime of trafficking against one's self (though it would make for an entertaining court event).

For the Human Trafficking to remain as a "Huge" issue (the language itself an opinion: 'Significant issues' may be better terminology), it must be supported by documentary evidence. It is an issue but not 'huge': Recent HIV+ increases, the slippage of Cambodia on the corruption scales, commune burning for land grabs, etc, must be considered more important. Indeed, the HIV increase has in part been linked on the anti-trafficking operation and the inability of the Health support organizations to reach HIV+ patients.

I have marked Human trafficking as 'citation needed', as it clearly need documentary support. Deforestation and land issues are well known and acknowledged by the government; therefore they do not require further verification.

Phnom Penh resident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.82.248.67 (talk) 10:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't talking about the content being sourced or unsourced. I was talking about your clearly political rant here on the talk page being utterly unsourced. Now, since you are apparently resident in Phnom Penh, as you so boldly claim, perhaps you can point to where the RGC has admitted that deforestation is a problem...all I've heard them do is demand the UK gov't stop funding Global Witness, threaten reporters with lawsuits, ban Global Witness from the country, sieze GW reports, send residents to court for painting slogans on their houses...as for economic migrants not being trafficked; when you pay someone to get you a job in Thailand, you are a trafficked person, but it was fun of you to attempt to undercut the argument with a clear red herring. Thought of a job on talk radio?. When was the last time a commune was burned down? That is very old news indeed. These days they just bring the cops in before dawn and ship the people and the remains of their houses out on a one way ticket to Dangkao district. No burning necessary. One wonders if you are really resident, or just get the Cambodia Daily shipped in occasionally.KhProd1 (talk) 09:06, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

does anyone know the distance?

would anyone know the distance between Australia and Cambodia; it is a question that is featured in my school project for geography. If you know the answer, or know how to get the answer could you email it to me through, daisylaughton@live.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.161.183 (talk) 06:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Name "Kampuchea"

I wonder if anyone knows how and when the name Kamboja got attached to this piece of Southeast Asia? I recall that an early Khmer king refers to himself as "ruler of Kambojadesa" on an inscription found in some temple someplace, but I forget the details and now can't re-find them. I also find this fascinating: "The 18th century [Burmese] king, Alaungpaya alternately referred to himself as the ruler of Tampradipa and Thunaparanta, Ramanadesa, and Kamboza (all alternate names of places in the Irrawaddy Valley)". Apparently Kamboja was quite a popular name in the region back then. PiCo (talk) 01:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I assume Kampuchea is just the name of Cambodia in Khmer, but it’s been used in English, too. (i.e. Democratic Republic of Kampuchea) It would be nice to have a small section expounding on the etymology of both the western form of Cambodja and Kampuchea.

Well, Wiktionary says, “Ultimately from Sanskrit Kamboja; Middle Khmer, Kambuja (Modern Khmer, Kampuchea)” implying Kampuchea is just a corruption of the older (?) term…

Oh, and, hey, look, there’s an article on the etymology of Kamboja. Was that on the page somewhere and I just overlooked it? Although it looks like what I’m looking for is maybe more “Name of Cambodia” which has a good external link, and maybe should be fused into the article. OK, I’m on it. </stream-of-consciousness>

Update update: It looks like this article used to have this section and it got purged at some point…? urrrrghh…

Yeah, I looked for further references online, but the more I looked, the more it looked like stuff was from Wikipedia originally anyway. That a whole section could go M.I.A. for a year and a half really makes me wonder how much stuff gets lost in bot-aided reverts and multiple vandal attacks. —Don’t forget to pack a wife 00:45, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Corruption

Cambodia is described as being 151 out of 163 countries on a Corruption Index. At first glance, this makes it sound like corruption is almost unheard of in Cambodia; that it's one of the least corrupt countries in the world, when in fact the opposite is true.

Just as the wealthiest country or the largest country or the country with the highest crime rate would normally be listed as #1 on a list of countries by Wealth, by Size, or by Crime, so here too one assumes that the most corrupt country would be #1 on the list, not #163.

This section needs to be better worded somehow so as to make it clearer just what is meant by this statistic. LordAmeth (talk) 23:38, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

section References missing

Is there a specific reason for that? --Riccardo.fabris (talk) 10:19, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Travel To Cambodia

I got plenty of great information from Wiki before my travel to Cambodia, and like Wiki a lot. So, even though this is going to be brief, I thought I'd let you know where the problem in this article is... Travel to Cambodia today. The information about scamming on visa prices at the airport is not true. They clearly have signs and amounts posted as soon as you get into the airport: $20 Tourist Visa, $25 Business Visa. There is an exit tax of $25 also. People I met along the way said they had no problem with border crossing by road or rail from Vietnam ot Thailand even. Lots of info I found on the net were from people who travelled there over five years ago. I can't copy all the info, but here is my blog in which I tried to provide updated info for those of you who are going soon... http://exclusivexcursionsinc.com.

I have no problem with Wiki varifying my info and correcting it on their sites for Cambodia Travel/Travellers.

Prathima Veeramachaneni —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.106.208 (talk) 09:17, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Spelling and Grammar - this is the worst!

Does anyone have any idea why in the world this article reads so poorly when it used to be a featured article? It's absolutely awful. I suggest taking some time to actually go through and correct small mistakes. I got through the first couple of paragraphs and had to stop...

(from another writer) Example: I cannot make sense of this statement, "Center with 24 province and cities, Cambodia consist approximately 181,035 km2 in the term of total area, compare with over 14 million population of ethnic Khmer." kentfx 13:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

(from yet another writer) Example: last sentence, first paragraph is complete non-sense for 8 lines of text. I'd suggest a fix, but I have no idea what it is even trying to say, and I am not an expert on Cambodia so I cannot even attempt to fix it. Aren't there any editors on Wikipedia anymore?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.21.226.44 (talk) 13:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I have made an attempt to improve those two sentences. They appear to have been submitted by someone whose primary language is not English. Thank you for pointing this out. WTucker (talk) 14:03, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, an admin (he was Cambodian-Australian) had recommend it be nominated. Pretty soon it ended up becoming a feature article and even then it was bad. Beats me how no one really bothered to error check it during that time. It made me cringe when it became a featured article. Just shows you how screwed up things can be here at Wikipedia. And over the years, I personally still feel it is a bad article. --Dara (talk) 04:51, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

UGH!!! What happened to this article? When I stopped actively editing Wikipedia, it was a Featured Article. I will help clean it up as time permits. Let's get this article back in shape.--William Thweatt ^Talk | ^Contribs 23:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Strange... someone also reverted my grammar improvements w/o even an explanation. I have no idea what's going on throughout this article's history, but I don't like the looks of this. 173.183.79.81 (talk) 01:52, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Removed the Khmer text graphics & Romanizations

I feel that we should use real Khmer text (in Unicode) instead of graphics just as any other language here uses real text. Using real Khmer text instead of images also allow readers to copy and search things with the copied Khmer text if they desire. Inb4 argument on computer limitations. There are many computers that don't have support for CJK either, should we make a graphic image for all of those? Most systems today are capable of Khmer Unicode support, it's up to the user to do it (there is a reason Wikipedia has help pages for that matter). Also, inb4 calligraphy (i.e. Aksar Mul), CJK also special calligraphy too, but should we make a special image for all words that are traditionally written in that style? I think nope. --Dara (talk) 03:29, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Also, please try to keep the first paragraph from erroneous info about romanization, pronunciations, etc. That's not what this article should be about. That should go into Etymology. I edited some stuff out of the first sentence so it is cleaner. I think it's good like that (for now anyways).--Dara (talk) 03:33, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

The images for the name of Cambodia and the national motto are not necessary in the Cambodia article. It's your problem if your browser can't support Khmer Unicode text. And in the same vein, it's your problem if you happen to use a browser that can't support certain file types used on Wikipedia. There should be no substitute for text when it can be simply displayed in Unicode. --Dara (talk) 03:26, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

History section

A number of issues with the History section. "Early History" makes some assertions that are not accurately drawn from the Encyclopedia Brittanica article it cites. Also the "Independence and Cold War" subsection should be retitled to accurately reflect this period in the country's history and avoid a purely European/North American POV. At the very least, the conflict was not a cold one in Cambodia. Someone with specific knowledge of the topic please step in. Jazzcowboy (talk) 17:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I've just begun trying to improve it. I'll try to remain brief enough --Riccardo.fabris (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I've added some detail for the 1980's, still a lot to be done, I don't know much about the country after the book i read was published in the early 90's I was particularly surprised to find lack of mention of the Khmer Rouge being in the internationally recognised government. according to the German Wikipedia http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschichte_Kambodschas war with the Khmer Rouge continued until 1998, a year after Pol Pot's death. Democratic elections were held in 1993, the royalist party led by Sihanouk won, probably because it was the only faction without Khmer Rouge influence. If anyone can get some casualty numbers for the period 1980-1998 that would probably be pertinent.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Drunkenduncan (talk • contribs) 01:20, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I noticed something had changed and went back through the history. An anonymous editor made two changes (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cambodia&diff=430294121&oldid=429773691 and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cambodia&diff=next&oldid=430294121) that day and while the second was reverted later, the first was apparently not noticed. The edit deleted references to the support of Thailand, the UK and the US and substituted them with China. It left the original citation however which was a document about US foreign policy and had nothing to do with china. I have reverted the change to how it was with the exception of leaving the reference to China in (my apologies for omitting them in the original edit, it was a foolish oversight). If anyone feels that there is a problem with this paragraph please post a note here as to the reasons for changing it. I also deleted a some of my previous posts from the talk page here about an issue which has been resolved and is no longer relevant. Drunkenduncan (talk) 16:10, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

This is an incredibly incomplete Wiki entry for a country which has such a rich ancient history and shameful (from the POV of the International community) recent one. Where is mention of the US "Menu" bombings of the 1960's and 1970's (similar strategy in Laos is covered in some detail in it's section). Also, reference MUST be made to John Pilger's documentary, which brought the real horrors of the KR and the International community's hypocrisy in continuing to support the murderous KR regime, in order to 'punish' the Vietnamese and their 'puppet states'. [anon]118.172.63.17 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:54, 6 April 2011 (UTC).

'Betrayal' documentary

Does anybody know when this 'Cambodia the Betrayal' documentary is from? What happened. Did the Khmer Rouge get into power? פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 02:04, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, I found that it is from 1990. Why was the US and other western countries assisting the Khmer Rouge? Are there any ideas, what the motive was? Is the motive still the same? Is the Khmer Rouge now in power? פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 02:09, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I hope the former question is a stupid one. According to the Khmer Rouge article, all the "brother" leaders died in 1997 or were arrested in 2007. (What special event caused those two years to be critical...) פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 02:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

In answer to the above questions: The western countries supported the Khmer Rouge because they were fighting against Vietnam. 1997 is significant because that is the year Pol Pot died. 2007 I am unsure about but probably had something to do with the start of legal action against a few ex-KR.Drunkenduncan (talk) 08:46, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I've included something on 'Cambodia' being named after 'Kamboja' due to the Khmer dynastic claims of origin (a claim not exclusive to the Khmer kingdom) - the intermediate Western names, and the etymology of other words in the official name ('kingdom of', etc.) are not of primary interest. I assume this is appropriate for the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harsimaja (talk • contribs) 09:16, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

File:Reamkermuralsilver.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. A further notification will be placed when/if the image is deleted. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotification (talk) 08:38, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Emblem of ASEAN.svg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Emblem of ASEAN.svg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do?

Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. A further notification will be placed when/if the image is deleted. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 04:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

What map?

Hi, in the interest of avoiding an edit war I'm bringing a minor spat to this talk page in the hope that a consensus will be found.

On 26 October I added a clickable map (found here) to the Administrative divisions section. In doing so I deleted a map which was more colourful, but fuzzier and unclickable. The one I deleted was created by KnightxxArrow. My edit summary was: (→Administrative divisions: added clickable map (old one was more colourful, but fuzzy and not clickable), sqmi to provincial areas, and reference and year for populations)[6]

On 27 October KnightxxArrow deleted the map, conversions, and references with no explanation.[7]

On 2 November I re-added the clickable map (but not the references... I don't want more than one argument at a time) with the edit summary: (→Administrative divisions: re-instated the clickable map because it's inherently better than an unclickable one. Please WP:AGF; if you upload a larger version of the colourful map I'll make it clickable and we'll use that.)[8]

On 4 November KnightxxArrow reverted it with no explanation.[9]

So instead of reverting a third time, I figured it would be better to just bring the discussion here. Since KnightxxArrow's map was here first, we would of course need consensus to change it to the clickable map.

I know this sounds like a trite issue, but I'm of the opinion that every map on Wikipedia should be clickable (consider the FA on Canada, my guideline; the clickability, in my opinion, adds usability to the page), and have been going through the countries switching many over. I didn't know it would meet with opposition by anyone, but since one fellow Wikipedian prefers unclickable over clickable I've realized there may be others and I should therefore stop what I'm doing.

Note that I gave KnightxxArrow a barnstar on October 22, because I liked his additions to the Phnom Penh article. I'd never had any interactions with him before, and wasn't planning to win his favour or anything; I just enjoy giving out barnstars to those who deserve it. (heh...)

OK so please give your opinion. I guess when the discussion is wrapped up -- in a few weeks or so? -- I'll abide by the consensus and either reinstate or cease my activities in this field.

Cheers​ និង​ សន្តិភាព, PhnomPencil (talk) 11:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I have seen you add clickable maps everywhere, however the default monochromatic style you use isn't that appealing. Can't you simply use png2 for the template? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:22, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I'm mostly using whatever map is in place at the time, be it bitmap or scalable. The template is usually set so it will change the look of the page as little as possible, except for extremely detailed maps which should have been larger in the first place IMHO... these are geography articles after all. Could you please point me in the right direction to learn more about svg2? I've Googled it but the technical information is above me. Thanks, PhnomPencil (talk) 13:40, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Svg makes it really easy to change colours etc., but I can't help with creating new maps (due to inability to do it that well myself). I don't know how you made the original template, but you could just use it for the current map couldn't you? Ala this change, but obviously changing link positions too. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 00:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess you're right Chipmunk. I was upset about the obvious Eternal September issue we've got here. On my next round of imagemaps I'll make his colour map clickable. Still, though, wish it were bigger; it's really tough to read for me. Thanks for the advice, PhnomPencil (talk) 07:08, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Removed image and captions

<< File:Legend of King Thao Sithoanh and Nang Manola at Vat That Luang Prabang Laos.jpg|180px|left|thumb|The carved panel depicts the legend of King Thao Sithoan and the Nang Manola, and the kinnari. This legend is of Khmer origin and is very popular. >>

This is of a picture of a mural in Laos. Why was this even added to this article? It is not of Khmer origin. It is irresponsible to add such statement to this article without reference (and I'm sure there are many more that are unchecked throughout Wikipedia). This statement is arrogant and I know many Cambodians fail to recognize that Cambodia is not the origin of this tale due to poor education of their cultupre and nationalism.

Please do not jeopardize the integrity of Wikipedia with unsubstantiated claims. Keep in mind that anything you add in here will influence the dozens of other Wikipedias in other languages. These statements and bad edits will often remain on those other Wikis and that is really unfortunate that happens. Do scrutinize everything you see for the sake of quality and high standard. --173.51.225.113 (talk) 14:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Estimates mentioned by Christopher Hitchens

It should not matter whether any given editor regards something as plausible or implausible. That must surely be a decision for the reader to make; it is not for Wikipedia editors to preclude the possibility of such a decision being made by removing well-sourced material from articles. Hitchens' book is a perfectly acceptable source from a respected publisher.
~ Iloveandrea (talk) 08:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Translation

Dear all I would like to discuss about the translation of content on Cambodia/Khmer in Wikipedia, so our people will have a better understanding and know more.

Best regards Noy Shoung noyshoung@gmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.246.145.78 (talk) 06:02, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

The History section of Cambodia has been defaced.

The first paragrah under History should be deleted immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.3.89.248 (talk) 17:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Done.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 17:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: here. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 18:11, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Currency

Stating that the Khmer riel (KHR) is the main currency with a footnote that "The United States dollar is also often used" is misleading at best. The dollar is the main currency: a report by the IMF [10] says that Cambodian banks' holdings of dollars (about US$3.5 billion) are about 20 times more valuable that their holdings of riel (about US$120 million). The same report says that trade in the urban areas and in the main industries (tourism and textiles) are heavily dollarized, with the riel mainly used in the poorer rural areas.

The Wall Street Journal says that the dollar constitutes "90% of the currency in circulation today and 97% of banking deposits. Most banks don't even lend in riel."[11]

Put simply, Cambodia uses the dollar.Travelpleb (talk) 08:49, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I've rephrased the footnote: "The de facto currency is the United States Dollar." This should reflect the reality more clearly.Forbes72 (talk) 06:10, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Help with stub: Kingdom of Cambodia (1975-76)

Hello, I noticed there was a gap in the former states of Cambodia so I created Kingdom of Cambodia (1975-76); any help in expanding this stub would be much appreciated. Cheers, ^walk victor falk ^talk 04:36, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Wrong photo

Under the section "Largest cities or towns of Cambodia", there is a photo which is clearly taken in Malaysia. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 12:41, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Country info-box - religion

An editor wishes to alter the info-box in a way that makes it appear that Islam and animism are major religions in Cambodia, when in fact they account to under 5% of the population even combined. (I'm only thankful he's dropped an earlier insistence that it mention shamanism, which isn't a religion at all). This violates Due Weight. Please argue the case for inclusion here. PiCo (talk) 04:16, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I am not the person who originally included the information, but I think it should be included. First off, 5% of 15 million is no small number. The rules for infobox parameters aren't spelled out in any particular detail. The "religion" parameter isn't only for the majority religion (or the religion of the majority). This discussion should include two parts, the issue of Islam and the issue of Animism.

1)Regarding Islam: Yes it's true that the Khmer majority are practically all Theravada Buddhists, but the Cham are a significant minority, both culturally (in the present) and historically, that practice Islam. I'll say that their numbers are enough that it probably merits inclusion in the infobox (the infobox is about the country as a whole, not just Khmer ethnic group).

2)Regarding Animism: My stronger preference, though, regards animism. It should definately be included in the infobox. Animism is the religion of many of the "Khmer Loeu",[12] the various ethnic hill groups living in the more isolated, mountainous parts of the country. Furthermore, every Khmer person is an animist. Animism (in the form of "folk religion"/"folk belief"), as defined by our own article, co-exists alongside Buddhism in the everyday beliefs and practices of the Khmer just a few examples of which are: belief that the head is sacred (the residence of the body's "personal spirit"), ancestor worship, spirit houses, animal worship, possession by evil spirits (rup arak), spirits that protect the village (neak ta), etc....I could go on but if you know anything about Cambodian culture I think you get my point by now. In fact many Khmer, as well as many scholars, would say that it is this very animism that makes Khmer culture unique and distinct from that of its neighbors (who, btw, practice their own form of animism).[13], [14] (specifically see pg 4 here), [15] (pages 4, 60). There are many more sources I could provide if those aren't satisfactory.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 05:35, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Greetings William, thanks for commenting. I realise you're not the original poster of this information, but I invited your views because you're active in the article and also knowledgable and sensible as an editor.

My problem with the information on Islam as provided by the poster is that it fails to make clear that Islam is a tiny minorty - 4% of 15 million may be a large number, but it's not a large proportion. I'd be happy, though, if the percentages were added.

On animism: some Cambodians are purely animists, meaning they have no overlay of Buddhism, Islam or Christianity. They make up an even smaller proportion of the total than the Muslims. That the remainder, Buddhist and Muslim (not Christian) lose their animism is interesting but not unique - the identical situation applies in Burma, the Philippines, etc. For that matter, even some versions of Christianity are heavily animistic - I'm thinking of the cult of saints in southern Europe. Anyway, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't let this fact enter into the information we present to readers,it's far too complex to be easily covered.

On a personal aside, you say the araks are evil - I haven't seen that. They seem dangerous, but not evil. They're also connected in some way to both meba and neak ta, but everyone I talk to has a slightly different version. And do you know anything about the crocodile flags? Just what are they about - crocs who eat princesses, evidently. Are you in Cambodia? I'm going out at the weekend to interview villagers about the neak-ta,if you're able to come you're most welcome.PiCo (talk) 06:01, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, like I said, I am ambivalent on the issue of including Islam, it is the religion of a small, but visible (in certain areas), minority of non-Khmer Cambodians. It should definitely be covered in the article, but, as Islam has little effect on the current culture/politics/society of Cambodia, I can see why one wouldn't list it in the infobox. However, the fact that the situation in Cambodia regarding Animism "isn't unique" is not a reason to not include it (after all, the fact that they are Buddhist isn't unique either, but we include that). Animism, to the extent that it exists in Western culture, is subsumed into the dominant religion and often "re-branded" as a tenet of that religion (e.g. in your example, Christianity) because belief in orthodox (small "o") Christianity precludes any sort of animistic beliefs or rituals. In Cambodia (as well as in neighboring areas of Southeast Asia, as you pointed out), while Theravada Buddhism doesn't proscribe any sort of animism, it also doesn't prohibit it. Pre-Buddhist animist beliefs and rituals (and even some remnants of Hindu beliefs) co-exist comfortably with Buddhism. Day-to-day Cambodian culture without this layer of Animism would be almost unrecognizable. That is to say, merely describing Cambodian religion as "Buddhist" is leaving out half of the story (in fact, the half that I believe to be most interesting).

Unfortunately, I am not in Cambodia at the moment. Thanks for the invite though! I would love to be back there again to do some research. I do, however, live among one of the largest Cambodian populations in the United States and interact with them seven days a week (in fact I even conducted some interviews during chenh voesa and bun kathin just last week). And, yeah, perhaps "evil" wasn't the right word. There are generally two classes of arak; I was thinking specifically of arak prei which are considered malevolent and the cause of ill-fortune, sickness, and even death in some cases. In the context of rup arak, a person who willingly becomes possessed by an arak, those are overwhelmingly arak srok (which can indeed include the local neak ta), which are a more protective class of spirits as long as taboos are observed and they are not "offended", in which case they can be malicious and dangerous to people as well.

As for the white tong krapeu (crocodile flags), a local head monk here (who has unfortunately since passed away) once explained in exceedingly great detail (which usually means it's half made up). From what I can remember without digging out my notes, the daughter of a king (he thought it was Ponhea Chan (1516-1566) or Barom Reachea (1566-1576)) was eaten by a crocodile. The king ordered his followers to find the croc so that his daughter's body could be recovered and given a proper funeral in order for her to be reborn/reincarnated. The croc was found, her body retrieved and then the croc was skinned. The skin was left at her grave. From that time, Cambodians began to use crocodile skins in funeral rites as a symbol of rebirth but as you can imagine crocodile skins are hard to come by, so they began using white flags (sometimes with crocodiles drawn on them, hence the name) instead to mark the house where a person has recently passed away. Since you're in Cambodia, if you want to follow up, this legend is connected to Wat Sorsor Muoyroy in Sompo village, Sompo District, Kratie...I think the princess's body was supposedly buried near there as well. It would make an interesting WP article in itself, if only there were published sources instead of oral interviews.

BTW, the orange (saffron?) and/or green crocodile flags seen decorating temples and monks' quarters are unrelated to this legend. They stem from another legend (briefly mentioned here)--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 07:35, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

To me it seems obvious that the i.p. that was running wild on the article is clueless about editing Wikipedia. The Chams have their own T.V. station in Cambodia. They are a large minority in P.P. that is present in many parts of town. They named a province after the Cham, Kampong Cham. They used to be part of a Cham empire that fought their neighbors and on and on. I do not think that I.P. is here to build an encyclopedia based on Wikipedia criteria and I fail to see his edits, any of them, as being an improvement. Earl King Jr. (talk) 15:36, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Muslims are about 4% of the Cambodian population - that's not a large minority. Mention them in the article, but not in the infobox.

By the way, the IP has far more experience of editing Wikipedia than you do. Would you like us to take this to an RfC?PiCo (talk) 15:44, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I assume you are serious but did you read his edits? Also, Chams are present all over Cambodia and Hun Sen has treated them well and made a big deal to curry their favor, for what its worth. Islam is big in S. Thailand and in Cambodia Muslims also, as said, have their own media T.V. Station. The I.P. was removing information willfully and edit warring immediately after editing. Forget the request for comment but maybe if the i.p. continues without consensus to edit recklessly a report to Admin Notice board is in order. Thankyou to the editor that put the sources in for the things that the i.p. removed. Earl King Jr. (talk) 16:06, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss Islam in the body of the article, but with only @5 of the total population (I was wrong about the 4%) I can't see how you argue in favour of mentioning them in the infobox. At the moment we have me arguing for excluding this from the biox, you in favour, and William neutral. An RfC would bring more opinions.PiCo (talk) 16:11, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Up to you. What harm does it create to mention the major religions in the info. box? Islam arrived in Cambodia via India and Malaysia. Those living in the rural areas now mix Islam with their indigenous culture and animistic elements, resulting in folk Islam. The spiritual center for the Cham Muslims of Cambodia is Chur-Changvra, near Phnom Penh. A huge number of Chams were murdered and there was a genocide against them, so why minimize this group by excluding them from the basic information about spiritual aspects in that country?

It seems like a non starter to mention animism and Islam in the article. If a tourist reads this article the information box provides minimal basic information and the Cham Islamic group is significant and plays a key role in Cambodia and the areas history now and in the past. Earl King Jr. (talk) 00:21, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Muslims in Cambodia are made up of two sorts of Chams plus the Malays - it's misleading to imply that there's only one group. But even so, they amount to 1.9% of the population - hardly "significant." PiCo (talk) 04:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Information box

An editor removed information on religion from the article that is sourced and pertinent to information presentation. It is the bit about Islam and Animism. I returned the information. The editor that removed it did so without an edit summary and also failed to discuss his reasoning on the talk page. Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:56, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

I am not the one who removed the information but I have something to say regarding the Religion section of the infobox. Buddhism should be the only one in the Religion section of the infobox or what you guys call it since from what is stated by the sources and this article itself, it is the official religion of Cambodia, besides around 95% of the population follows the religion. HOWEVER, if you people want to keep on putting multiple religions, on the Religion section of the infobox, I feel like it is useless to have that section of the infobox since for me there should be only one or even two or above if there is two and above official religions of the country.Nice Stranger5810 (talk) 06:24, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

You are entitled to your opinion, however, the article is not presented by the Cambodian government it is presented by Wikipedia which is an encyclopedia that wants a well rounded view. Earl King Jr. (talk) 12:20, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Islam is followed by under 2% of the population - seems rather unreasonable to give is a mention in the infobox. Animism isn't really a religion, more a set of practices underlying all religions (the term was invented by Edward Tylor in 1871 to describe the common faces of "primitive" religion). What arguments do you have for including them?PiCo (talk) 07:08, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

The citations are given about this and it is a big part of the history and present, of the area. Breaking things into %'s seems to be not really a good way to qualify or measure information in an encyclopedia. Ebola is popular in the news though what is the percentage of people compared to world population that has contracted it? So, like an argument about landmines no longer being important because of the % of cripples and deaths being X, a well rounded view of Cambodia is more important than some bias of the government there saying something about the 'official' religion. Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:03, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Not a very convincing argument. I think we need to take this to an RfC. PiCo (talk) 16:02, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Saying something is not convincing is different than explaining why something is non convincing. Is it better to present Cambodia the way that government says and ignore ethnic groups practices? Doubtful. Earl King Jr. (talk) 23:38, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Land mines

The same i.p. editor in the above thread also removed information about landmines in Cambodia saying it was not a big issue now, but the sad truth is, that even today about 250 people step on such a device each year perhaps more are killed or injured by trying to sell them for scrap because of poverty. Very often the victims are children who play in the fields, while not realizing that hidden dangers lurk beneath them. In many cases, one dies right on the spot because the next hospital is far away and often there’s a lack of proper infrastructure to treat such traumas. If you survive such incidents, the scars stay forever; a lost leg is the most common injury. In most cases, these people are no longer capable of taking on a job or continue the work they had. Therefore, you’ll see many people with bad disabilities begging in the streets, in front of market entrances, hotels or restaurants. tourist should have a sense of this especially if they are hikers. Removing that kind of information, probably not a good idea. Earl King Jr. (talk) 00:36, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Last year 100 people were killed by landmines; in the first six months of this year the number has reached 100 already, which, if the trend continues, might led to 200 deaths in 2014. The increase is due to farmers (not children) using heavy farm machinery in fields previously cleared of troop-mines (they're blowing up anti-tank mines). Back in 2002/3, when I was involved in anti-landmine work, the numbers were around 400-600 a year. So there's been a massive decrease in landmine fatalities and incidents in the period, and it's such a tiny number now that it's not worth mentioning - totolly dwarfed by the number of traffic fatalities,or even by people falling out of trees (which, oddly enough, is a major cause of death in Cambodia). We need to reflect reality, not preconceptions. (By the way, the source for the para on landmines is from 1996 - totally out of date).PiCo (talk) 05:01, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Reality? Then you say were killed in your argument. You neglect to mention about the unreported deaths. You neglect about the number of people with their lower limbs and other parts blown off. You care to think about the back drop of the information and its cultural implications from the past and future? Part of what happened, Cambodia was mined extensively. Many deaths go unreported. So your stats are wrong. Cambodians do not report things to the police very often. Death might be preferable for some people than having their legs blown off. As one of the most mined places in the world it needs reporting encyclopedic fashion. Would you care to go hiking out and about there? Not to personalize it but really some empathy or understanding towards Cambodians and their history is lacking in your comment. The land mine situation is a huge story in Cambodia always. In 2010 it was estimated that as many as 6million mines are still unexploded in the Cambodian soil, covering 276 square miles of land. In a country with a population of around 15million, it means there is more than one mine for every three people.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541776/Pictured-Cambodian-land-victims-wounded-one-10million-hidden-devices-waiting-detonated-nursed-health.html#ixzz3GPA3Qveo

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Earl King Jr. (talk) 12:17, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Don't use the British press, use CMAC - they're the ones who monitor the situation. Figures on both deaths and injuries are available. Both are low and falling. Very few if any incidents go unreported - having worked in the mine action field (mine victim assistance), I've observed this since 2002. Our article needs to be updated.PiCo (talk) 10:11, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

I doubt you are an expert and I doubt your sense of the article. Its like saying Ebola is not important because a low number of the earths population have gotten it so far. You did not comment on the number of land mines to people I mentioned. You don't want to quote a mainstream paper but you want to rely on some NGO or private corporation that probably makes money associated with removing mines or whatever, it appears you have an agenda since you have a conflict of interest and are trying to downplay the situation. I think you have a dog in this contest so perhaps you are biased against this issue. So sorry to make this about you but its clear that you have made it about you claiming to be an expert and saying to disregard mainstream news on this topic and rely on your biased interpretation. Earl King Jr. (talk) 10:50, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

I live in Cambodia, I'm a professional writer, and I've worked for Handicap International as coordinator of their landmine victim assistance program here. Plus I know not just the organisations doing landmine clearance and victim monitoring but the people as well. That's just since you ask :). CMAG is the main agency involved in mane clearance operations here, but you should also follow CMAA, which has overall responsibility for collating statistical reports, and you should read Landmine Monitor, which will put Cambodia into an international perspective for you. You should also try to tone down the arrogance, it's really not becoming.PiCo (talk) 04:39, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I get the impression that you are not really reading the posts I made. In 2010 it was estimated that as many as 6million mines are still unexploded in the Cambodian soil, covering 276 square miles of land. In a country with a population of around 15million, it means there is more than one mine for every three people. is there something about that you do not understand or is your closed circle NGO for profit group making money off all this a problem? Your answers to issues, like you advising to dismiss the mainstream British press is telling. Few like NGO's and many think they are part of the problem in places like Cambodia where they draw large salaries and live in a privileged environment. Some countries ban them. Also Wikipedia is not run by experts like yourself since it can be edited by anyone and it appears that your stake in the situation is probably financial so you are in a conflict of interest. When you did not respond to any of the stats I gave, its pretty obvious that you are denying the mainstream reporting in favor of some pet groups that probably pay well for information they control. So, I don't think so. Earl King Jr. (talk) 12:41, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

EKjr. I am not unsympathetic to the issue of landmines in Cambodia. However devastating it was in past years, the situation has greatly improved and is improving more daily. I'm not saying that it's not still perilous in a few particularly well known areas, but you are not helping your case by quoting The Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is little more than a tabloid, not at all a thorough, fact-checking new source, and even less a scholarly source for building an encyclopedia. Here is a Cambodian newspaper's take on the current situation. Here is an article from the Chinese news agency. This article from The Khmer Times, although noting a increase in deaths for the first 4 months of 2014 compared to the same time last year, says that at the current rate of de-mining, Cambodia will be totally free of landmines in 5 years (2020). For better or worse, the issue of landmines in Cambodia became a cause célèbre in the late 90s/early 2000s, which has even a decade later left a certain impression on the kind of people that don't do follow up research. This is an encyclopedia article, not an advocacy forum. If this issue is to be mentioned at all in our general article on Cambodia (for the record, I believe it does indeed warrant a few, limited lines), it should very briefly state that the situation is vastly improved since previous decades (as the current, reliable sources show) and it should mention the current social repercussions of so many victims and link to an appropriate sub-article in which the issue and its history can be dealt with in depth. The current issue is not so much the existence of landmines in Cambodia, but rather the social and economic fall out of the landmines (see for example this recent BBC article that says "...Cambodia has one amputee for every 290 people".--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 04:02, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the very thoughtful reply. I think your approach sounds good and will support it. What I found annoying was someone just taking the information out of the article and saying it was not really an issue any more. This information "...Cambodia has one amputee for every 290 people", does indeed seem to warrant inclusion in the article with phrasing as you are describing above. Earl King Jr. (talk) 14:25, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

More of the same in Cambodia [16] How often does it go unreported? The country is still loaded with them. Earl King Jr. (talk) 11:44, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Introduction too long

Is it just me, or is the introduction for the article just too long? Compare this to similar countries like Laos for example. EDIT: Upon checking it out more, it seems like some parts of it is pretty outdated.Nice Stranger5810 (talk) 13:24, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

The introduction seems like it is too biased against Cambodia. Some of the corruption comments aren't properly sourced and seem out of line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.24.100.170 (talk) 11:39, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

How is it biased and what sources are you referring to? Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

I, too, think it is well a bit biased against Cambodia, and that is really disappointing to me since this is Wikipedia, however I feel like some of the 'biased' information is pretty outdated and should be updated. Nice Stranger5810 (talk) 06:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

And what exactly are you referring to? Also how is it biased against Cambodia? You mean biased against the people of Cambodia, the politics of Cambodia, or what? Earl King Jr. (talk) 12:24, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

A couple of points. First off, Cambodia, whether regarding its crooked elections or its corrupt, bribe-taking police and politicians at every level of government, is consistently ranked as one of the most corrupt nations in the world and will likely remain so as long as Hun Sen (whom Reuters plainly called a "dictator" earlier this year) maintains his strong man position. Stating the verifiable truth, however negative it may be, isn't "bias". Secondly, the information regarding corruption is perfectly sourced and not at all "outdated". With a quick glance I see sources from 2014, 2012, 2011, etc. with the oldest source appearing to be from 2010. Thorough academic research, study and publication tend to lag slightly. Also, per the Manual of Style, the article lead is supposed to briefly summarize all important contents of the article. It follows that extremely long articles will have longer than average leads. In addition, it is WP custom (it may even be in the MOS, I haven't checked recently) that, barring extraordinarily controversial or BLP statements, material in the lead needn't be cited if it is a summary of material that is already cited in the body of the article. Such is the case in this article. See the Cambodia#Government section for the sources.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 05:11, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree with WilliamThweatt. I also see where the editors calling into question this aspect of unfairness are providing zero examples of what they are talking about, at least so far. Earl King Jr. (talk) 14:09, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Nice Stranger5810, the intro is much too long. Don't agree about bias though, Cambodia really is corrupt.PiCo (talk) 16:30, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Not only is it too long, I think it's poorly written too. Some sentence are too trivial for an opening paragraph. One that really stands out to me is: 'Cambodia's ancient name is "Kambuja" (Sanskrit: कंबुज).' Is this information really useful to most people? Do other countries article have such nonsense so early? If such name is important, it would be listed in the parenthesis at the beginning otherwise should go in the Name section. --Dara (talk) 04:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I think that is useful information that you are quoting. I would be for leaving that in. Its factual and a taste of history. Earl King Jr. (talk) 15:42, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, I didn't remove it. The statement is also debatable (among other things about ancient Cambodia such as the ancient name for Angkor Wat) and it doesn't mention what period this word "Kambuja" was used in and by whom? Traders, foreigners, or Cambodians themselves during what unmentioned period? If you look at the article for Names of Cambodia it mentiones that Kampuchea is derived from Kambujadesa which appears in an inscription. This is not the same thing as saying Kambuja was the ancient name. It seems like some of this information is being twisted and taken out of context. Where do we find that "Kambuja" was the sole name for Cambodia in ancient times (when?)? Mentioning such statement is too esoteric for a beginning section, especially if such information is debatable. If anything, it is more useful to mention the names of Cambodia used by Europeans during the age of exploration or what European language the name "Cambodia" was derived from (Cambodge/Camboja/Camboia)--Dara (talk) 01:17, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm in agreement with Dara here, in part. The statement is, at present, unattributed. And even if true, doesn't belong in the lede but rather under "Names of Cambodia". As for the name "Kambuja", it is simply "Kampuchea" pronounced in Old Khmer. Another way of looking at it is the spelling កម្ពុជា would have been pronounced "Kambuja" in Old Khmer (before the voiced stops were lost and the subsequent vowels were diphthongized). So "Kampuchea" is just the modern way of pronouncing what was once "Kambuja". The name "Kambuja" itself comes from two Pali/Sanskrit words Kambu ("gold") and ja ("born of" or "giving birth to"), giving a loosely translated "place birthed in gold" or "land born of gold". The name was a reference to (and indeed is related to) to the term Suvarnabhumi ("Land of Gold") used by ancient India to refer to various lands of Southeast Asia. The Kambujadeśa mentioned in inscription is simply a case of yet another Sanskrit modifier, deśa ("place" or "country of") being attached to the term, yielding Kambu + ja + deśa, which is just an ad-hoc Sanskrit way to say "the Country of Kambuja" (literally, "the Country of the Land Born of Gold"). So Kambujadesa = Kambuja = Kampuchea; they're all the same word. When "Kampuchea" was chosen as a name for the modern kingdom, they didn't just make that name up out of whole cloth, it is a modern pronunciation of the name formerly given to the kingdom, Kambuja. There's no doubt Kambuja was an ancient name of the polity that became modern Cambodia, but, just as today, it was probably never the "sole name". However, this is all too detailed and complicated to explain in the lede. For reference, here is what Chuon Nath had to say on the mater:

កម្ពុជ ឬកម្ពុជា 1 ន. (សំ. បា. កម្ពុ “មាស”+ជ ឬជា “កើត, កំណើត”= សុវណ្ណភូមិ​ “ទីកើតមាស​, ភូមិ​ប្រទេសជា​ទី​កើតនៃមាស​” )​ ពាក្យនេះ​ជាឈ្មោះ​នៃ​ ប្រទេសខ្មែរ​យើង, យើងហៅប្រទេស​របស់យើង​ថា​ កម្ពុជរដ្ឋ ក៏បាន​, ថា កម្ពុជប្រទេស ក៏បាន, ថា ប្រទេសកម្ពុជា ក៏បាន, ថា ប្រទេស​ខ្មែរ​ ក៏បាន, ថា ខេមរប្រទេស​ ក៏បាន, ថា ខេមររដ្ឋ ក៏បាន​ កាលណា​បើកវីជាតិយើងត្រូវ​ការ​ប្រើ​ក្នុងកាព្យ ឬក្នុងការ​តែង​សេចក្តី​​ជា​ពាក្យរាយ​ខ្លះ​, យើងអាច​ហៅប្រទេស​យើង​បាន​តាម​ត្រូវ​ការ, ប៉ុន្តែ​ពាក្យប្រើក្នុង​ផ្លូវ​ការ យើងសរសេរ យើងហៅ កម្ពុជរដ្ឋ ឬ ប្រទេសកម្ពុជា;​ ឯជនបរទេស​ គេហៅតាមយើងដែរ​ក៏មាន គេហៅ​តាម​ការសន្មតិរបស់​គេក៏មាន​ ដូចជាបារាំងសែស​ គេ​ហៅ​ប្រទេសយើងថា​ Cambodge, អង្គ្លេសហៅថា Cambodia, អ្នកបរទេសខ្លះទៀតហៅថា​ Cambodja, ខ្លះហៅ Kambuja ។ល។​​ប្រទេសកម្ពុជាយើង​ តាំងពី​​​ត្រឡប់បាន​ឋានៈជា​ប្រទេស ឯករាជ្យ អព្យាក្រឹត​ ពុទ្ធសាសនិក​ កើតមានសង្គមរាស្រ្តនិយម​ ដោយ​ព្រះគតិបណ្ឌិតដ៏ឈ្លាសវាងវៃ​ភ្លឺថ្លានៃ​ សម្តេចព្រះនរោត្តម​ សីហនុ ព្រះប្រមុខរដ្ឋ​ របស់យើង​រៀង​មក យើងមាន​ សាមគ្គី ស្រុះគ្នា​ដូចគេវេញខ្សែបញ្ចូលធ្លុងមាំមួនរឹងប៉ឹង យើងបាន​ប្រកប​ដោយ​ សន្តិសុខ សន្តិភាព វឌ្ឍនភាព លូតលាស់ ចម្រុងចម្រើន កើតកើនឡើងជានិច្ច ស្្ទើរតែនឹងគណនាត្រារាប់ពុំបាន​ប្រមាណ​ពុំអស់​មានកិត្តិនាមថា​ ខ្ែមរជួយ​ខ្មែរគ្នាឯងដោយ​ពេញសមត្ថភាព, ខ្មែរ​បង្កើតជីវភាពខ្លួនឯង, បង្កើតសុខសន្តិភាពខ្លួន​ឯង, បង្កើត វឌ្ឍនភាពខ្លួនឯង, ខ្មែរ​មាន​កល្យាណ​មិត្តច្រើនក្នុងសកល​លោក​ ។ល។ ។ល។ សំ. បា.

And while we're at it, it's not just the lede that needs cleaned up. This article has been neglected for far too long. Many statistics are outdated, references are outdated, the big map in the "Geography" section is outdated (it doesn't reflect Pailin or Kep becoming provinces or the recent split of Kampong Cham into two provinces). The whole article needs updated, copy edited and trimmed.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 06:17, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Khmer Leou

Khmer Loeu Also known as Hill tribes. Interesting article but it is not sourced. It is really in need of real sourcing of information. Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:11, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Indeed. That particular article has been #1 on my "to-do" list for nigh on a decade now but, unfortunately, I get sidetracked quite easily or lose focus. So I started rewriting it today and will continue to add sources and information over the next week or so.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 05:11, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Super. Earl King Jr. (talk) 09:31, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

What do we do about this article Military history of Cambodia that appears to be taken from some source, copied from some source without any actual attribution citations? Is it better to clear the article and turn it into a more stub-like thing? The information now appears to be good in it but it is just the single perspective of some study, so appears to be without any critical foundation in regard to sourcing. Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:10, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

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Restoration of the monarchy

I was wondering why the section Restoration of the monarchy contains information about the Khmer Rouge Trials? What does that have to do with the restoration of the monarchy? I see no connection at all. Besides, the section does not explain anything about the restoration of the monarchy, except stating the Sihanouk was installed in 1993.

• What was the background for restoring the monarchy?
• To which extent has the monarchy been restored?
• What power does the monarchy have? In relation to politics, government, foreign relations, internal affairs, etc..?
• How has the process been, leading up to the restoration of the monarchy? Who decided to restore it? Who was involved in its restoration? Etc.?

There are many issues that could be adressed in this section. RhinoMind (talk) 20:43, 4 November 2016 (UTC)