Talk:Bohipir
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GOCE copyedit request[edit]
Hello Meghmollar2017. After completing my preliminary copyedit I always ask questions about the article to ensure that my edit reflects the intended meaning and is clear in doing so. Please reply to each point by indenting below each one like you would a conversation; items will be struck out once they have been answered. Please ping me with {{U}}, {{ping}}, or {{re}} as I have a lot of items on my watchlist. My copyediting process can be found here. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC) |
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)(Bengali: বহিপীর, romanized: Bahipīra, lit. 'Pir of or from the books')
I would say pick one: either use "of" or "from". Which one makes more sense?
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Before being published, Bohipir was awarded in an international conference of PEN Club in Dhaka in 1955.
Already edited. Is there an adjective to describe something from Dhaka (maybe "Dhakan")? I can't find any adjective for it on Wiktionary.
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[...] which was enacted back in 1793, and Jamindars (landlords) had started to lose their Zamindari by that time.
Zamindari appears to have three different definitions. Which one is most appropriate?
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)The name Bohipir (Pirs of or from Bahi or books) is thus successful to upbold the outspread of pirism from the religious interpretations and masael (explanations) to the mentality of common people.
Again, pick either "of" or "from" here.
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Waliullah indicated the lifelessness of bookish religious beliefs and superstitious Pirism [...]
Are you talking about superstitions about Pirism or about how Pirism is superstitious?
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[...] through the speech of Bohipir in Sadhu bhasa.
Is the explanatory footnote necessary? There's already a link to the term.
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)He houses in the northern district of Sunamganj.
How is this important to understanding Bohipir's character?
- May be not important to understand his character. Coincidentally Sylhet region is called the source-land of Islam in Bengal. (See Conquest of Sylhet and Shah Jalal's Shrine) However, it is nothing but a coincidence. AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)His eventually flees with Tahera in the search of renascence.
What do you mean by "renascence"? It means "rebirth", but it doesn't appear to make sense without any context.
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Hatem Ali is a decaying Zamindar of Reshampur.
What do you mean by "decaying"?
- ক্ষয়িষ্ণু as he was gradually losing his lands as per the Suryasta Ain (Revenue Sale Law). More details about the law - on Banglapedia. AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)His estate has been auctioned due to the Revenue Sell Act.
In "Background" it's referred to as the Revenue Sale Law. Which one is correct?
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)But Hatem Ali demonstrates humanity refusing Bohipir.
I don't understand how refusing Bohipir's offer (whatever it is) demonstrates humanity.
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Hokikullah, or hakikullah, is Bohipir's assistant who fulfills his master's orders.
Already edited. Is Hokikullah more of a servant than an assistant to Bohipir?
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Tahera has been portrayed as a symbol of Bengali Muslim women uprising in the early 20th century.
Any particular uprising event or just in general?
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Even more, villagers in the Bengal region would lose their conscience before Pirs.
What do you mean by "lose their conscience"?
- বিবেক means conscience as it was used to describe the tendency of local people to sacrifice their daughters in the textbook (in Bengali). AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[...] originated from social superstitions and religious books.
How are "social superstitions" different from normal superstitions?
- As per narrated as সামাজিক কুসংস্কার. May be because it engulfed the whole Muslim Society regardless of rich and poor. AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Suggestion: কুসংস্কার also appears to be translated as "prejudice". Putting the terms together it seems like it could mean "social prejudice". Would it make more sense that people in a society had already-formed ideas about other people without meeting them?—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- As per narrated as সামাজিক কুসংস্কার. May be because it engulfed the whole Muslim Society regardless of rich and poor. AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Bohipir is the eponymous character of the play and antagonist who is at least 65 years old.
Already edited. Why is it important to know that he is 65 years old?
- Already 65 years old and married to Tahera! AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Tahera is the heroine.
Is she the second protagonist?
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Her superstitious father and stepmother married her off to Bohipir and expected Nēki (piety).
Nēki leads to the Thawab article but isn't mentioned there. Should it be changed back to Thawab?
- The word "Neki" (নেকি) is used in the play. AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Syed Waliullah has been credited for upholding social stigma, inconsistency and socio-religious superstitions in literature such as Lalsalu and Bohipir.
"Upholding" means to support and encourage. Perhaps you meant "critique"?
- Syed Waliullah "included" the superstitions in the Muslim community as his subject of writing. AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)In the drama, she is an inflexible and humanitarian character who is considered an indication to the women's rights and awakening of early 20th century.
Not really a copy edit issue, but this source seems unreliable and this sentence should probably be removed as it sounds like interpretation from elsewhere.
- Interpretation?! Can you please explain? It was added from the Madhyomik Bangla Sohopath (or simply to say the textbook I mentioned above). AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
I can't speak to the reliability of the textbook, but at this point it strays from what happens in the play and makes an interpretation of her character. I strongly suggest that the author be explicitly mentioned in the text to make it clear to readers that this is an opinion from someone who analysed the play lest it be accused of being original research.—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)- These descriptions are not from the author's (Syed Waliullah) own perception. They are from the critical discussion at the beginning or introductory part compiled by the specialist panel of NCTB including Dr. Soumitra Shekhar and Dr. Rafiqullah Khan and edited by Professor Abdullah Abu Sayeed and Professor Mahbubul Haque. AdiBhai (talk) 07:53, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
I should clarify; I am not talking about Waliullah, but the authors that were on the panel. Literature can be analysed many ways (and there is no one "correct" analysis that exists), so the analysts from the panel should be mentioned directly in the text to make it abundantly clear it is their interpretation of the character.—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 21:31, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- These descriptions are not from the author's (Syed Waliullah) own perception. They are from the critical discussion at the beginning or introductory part compiled by the specialist panel of NCTB including Dr. Soumitra Shekhar and Dr. Rafiqullah Khan and edited by Professor Abdullah Abu Sayeed and Professor Mahbubul Haque. AdiBhai (talk) 07:53, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Interpretation?! Can you please explain? It was added from the Madhyomik Bangla Sohopath (or simply to say the textbook I mentioned above). AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Khodeja has been iconised as a universal mother in the drama.
Citation needed.
Looking forward to hearing your responses. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: Answers to your questions are given above. AdiBhai (talk) 04:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Meghmollar2017: Addressed all the points, some need further input. As I've mentioned up in a few, I strongly suggest mentioning the textbook or its author in the text as right now its interpretations of the play and its characters are being presented as fact. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: I tried as much as I could. The source from the textbook is actually the critical discussion compiled and edited by the Editorial panel of NCTB. AdiBhai (talk) 07:53, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Meghmollar2017: Cleaned up a bit more. As I don't have access to the textbook, I don't know exactly what the panel is called. I would suggest describing who was on the panel (listing their names out in parentheses after mentioning the panel should be fine) at the beginning of first sentence, then mention the panel again in the second instance of interpretation. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 21:31, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: I tried as much as I could. The source from the textbook is actually the critical discussion compiled and edited by the Editorial panel of NCTB. AdiBhai (talk) 07:53, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Meghmollar2017: Addressed all the points, some need further input. As I've mentioned up in a few, I strongly suggest mentioning the textbook or its author in the text as right now its interpretations of the play and its characters are being presented as fact. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: I also don't know how the panel is officially referred to. It doesn't clarify about the main critics or a particular writter writing that part of the textbook. It also doesn't cite any source. Is "According to the textbook by NCTB" Okay? AdiBhai (talk) 02:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
- Meghmollar2017, just "NCTB states" should work (though you should explain what NCTB stands for). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: I also don't know how the panel is officially referred to. It doesn't clarify about the main critics or a particular writter writing that part of the textbook. It also doesn't cite any source. Is "According to the textbook by NCTB" Okay? AdiBhai (talk) 02:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: NCTB stands for National Curriculum and Textbook Board. AdiBhai (talk) 04:45, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Meghmollar2017: Alright, I think that's everything on my end. Let me know if there's anything you want me to take a look at before I consider the request completed. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: NCTB stands for National Curriculum and Textbook Board. AdiBhai (talk) 04:45, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
@Tenryuu: Cordial thanks to you for the copyediting. It looks awesome. But still I found two more issues to be solved. Firstly, it was not "Dhaka PEN Club" that awarded the prize. The texts in Bengali can be simply translated as "awarded in a conference held in Dhaka". Secondly, The first sentence in the Background section needs to have an attention. The play was written in the 1950's but the storyline goes back in the early 20th century. That's it. I found no other problem. Really, it was a great job. Thanks again. :) AdiBhai (talk) 05:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- Meghmollar2017, I fixed those up. How does that look? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:51, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: It looks impressive. Thanks for your remarkable work. AdiBhai (talk) 05:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- Meghmollar2017, in that case I will mark the request as done on WP:GOCE/REQ. Take care! —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:29, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Tenryuu: It looks impressive. Thanks for your remarkable work. AdiBhai (talk) 05:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)