Talk:Beltway Series

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Maryland's team[edit]

Actually, after the Colts left, JKC tried to make the skins "Maryland's" team. He wasnt as vocal as Angelos — Preceding unsigned comment added by Levineps (talk • contribs) 02:47, 12 March 2006

Controversy[edit]

I condensed the stuff about the Orioles' opposition to the Expos' move. I moved some of it to Washington Nationals, where it is more appropriate.

I tried to objectively describe the subjective reasons for Nats fans' dislike of Angelos and the Orioles. If I were going to be subjective in this section, I'd've said that the Orioles are more concerned with the Yankees and Red Sox, and that the Orioles fans aren't real fond of Angelos themselves. :)

Finally, I took out the references to the Redskins and Ravens. I think the NFL and MLB are different enough that you would need to make the case that NFL franchise moves are comparable to MLB franchise moves.

Thanks! Matuszek 07:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a rivalry[edit]

Sorry, there is no rivalry here. No dramatic playoff game, no divisional races, no fights. They aren't even in the same league. Plus both teams suck. The only reason rivalry gets mentioned is because it's publicized as such. It only exists in the minds of sports writers and peter angelos. The fact that this has a page and the Yankees/Orioles rivalry doesnt is retarded. I move to have this fake rivalry page deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.212.42.2 (talk • contribs) 05:41, 25 April 2008

Relevance?[edit]

I understand the reason Nationals fans' dislike of Angelos and I think it's relevant for the section, but what's the point of this (I also am missing the point supposedly lost on Angelos)?

Interestingly, the original Washington Senators were well-established in the Baltimore/Washington market for over fifty years before the St. Louis Browns moved to Baltimore to become the present-day Orioles.
Instrumental in that move was the leadership of the Griffith family -- then the owners of the Washington Senators. A point seemingly lost on Angelos.

These sentences should probably taken out unless someone can explain to me why they're relevant. Wiki publius (talk) 14:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Color Scheme[edit]

The red and orange alternation in that table is murder on the eyes. Someone please change it to be more aesthetically pleasing. I'm not an expert with coding color schemes. Arnabdas (talk) 20:32, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Synatx error in table[edit]

There is a syntax error in the table at the beginning of the article. Its title appears as 

   Baltimore Orioles–Washington Nationals|- |--| colspan="2" style="text-align: center" |

So the error is probably on that line, but I can't find it. Attys (talk) 21:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Combined stats are incorrect[edit]

The combined stats are incorrect. It's obvious someone has put the Expos regular season record into these stats given the large number of wins and losses for the Nats. But the playoff records are not combined. The Expos did appear in the playoffs (the 81 strike season), and could arguably be called the NL East division winners for that season given the playoff format. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.38.254 (talk) 02:05, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agreed. While it makes sense for the Expos to be mentioned in the article of the body, there was no meaningful Expos-Orioles rivalry. Even if MLB considers the Nats to have inherited the Expos' records (I don't know if that's true), this article is about a Baltimore-Washington rivalry, and Expos results have no place here. Same goes for the St. Louis Browns. I have no idea if omitting them would make either team look better, and I don't care about that either. I'm going to inform WikiProject Baseball with an eye to fixing this. --BDD (talk) 15:09, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done --BDD (talk) 15:59, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Beltway Series/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Delete this article

Substituted at 00:56, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

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Text reused in another article[edit]

I reused the paragraphs about the MASN dispute being the reason for the Orioles seemingly going out of their way to avoid playing in Washington during the week after the 2015 riots in the Mid-Atlantic Sports Network article. Daniel Case (talk) 05:24, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Does the animosity go beyond the history of the baseball teams?[edit]

Having added the grafs about how the 2015 White Sox–Orioles crowdless game might have resulted from the fact that the two teams were in court with each other over MASN at the time, I must say this is an interesting article, well-documented, about an unusual sports rivalry that has more to do with the history of the two markets, and the current teams' business relationship, than (so far) anything that's happened on the field. After I'm done here, I will be adding something to this effect to the intro.

But it strikes me, looking through the article and the sources, that maybe this animosity between the two teams' fans goes beyond baseball. Consider that Jack Kent Cooke worked hard to keep the NFL from putting another team in Baltimore after the Colts left (or is believed by Colts/Ravens' fans to have done so, at least), giving the Baltimore fan base a counter-grievance similar to Washington's in the baseball field.

Also what about basketball? The Bullets left Baltimore to go down I-95 in 1963, and Baltimore hasn't had an NBA team since. Does this stick in O's fans craws? (However, I don't see Baltimore feeling the same way about hockey, as it seems to me that if you do live in the Baltimore area and like hockey the Caps (or maybe the Flyers) are enough for you).

And how deep beneath this all is the general rivalry between the two cities? I wouldn't be surprised if it predates 20th-century organized sports (sort of like Boston and Providence (which lacks the sports dimension)).

Also, back to baseball, we can read in History of the Washington Senators (1901–60) about the Browns moved to Baltimore and within a decade became pennant contenders, compared to the Senators, who hadn't come anywhere near a pennant, much less the Series, since 1933, doubtless diverting fan attention up the interstate, even more so when the replacement franchise did even worse and moved out after a decade (at a time when the Orioles had managed to appear in three straight Series, winning one of them?) That had to hurt in Washington. Daniel Case (talk) 01:29, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You'll find in most rivalries between cities, especially nearby cities like Washington and Baltimore, that the sports rivalries are often simply the visible aspect of a larger and deeper rivalry between them. Even as an outsider to that area, when I've been in that area, there's clearly a rivalry between Baltimore and Washington, sports or not. They are two very different cities who compete not only in sports, but economically. I see that in a lot of sports rivalries, even for small towns or even national rivalries. The issue with this, and any rivalry article, though, is making sure we have reliable sources to back the claims rather than a bunch of heresay, rumors, or online message boards. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:09, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@JonRidinger: I should have added that we should be looking for reliable sources on this, yes. But I think this is true only of sports rivalries that involve cities close to each other. The Heat–Knicks rivalry, for instance, arose largely from regular close competition on the court for playoff spots and in the playoffs themselves; as the two cities are over a thousand miles apart proximity doesn't enter into it. Daniel Case (talk) 14:21, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. And each article should be able to source the background of each rivalry, whether it's purely from sports (like Celtics-Lakers) or has a deeper background (like this rivalry or other similar regional and in-state rivalries). --JonRidinger (talk) 15:28, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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