Talk:Be My Baby

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Be my baby Ronnets

Untitled[edit]

Is there a sentence here that doesn't belong? "Greg loves this song.." etc.

I think this article focuses too heavily on the song's influence on other people, particularly Brian Wilson, but does not say why this song has had the influence that it did. A big part of that is Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound" technique, which this song is perhaps the finest example thereof. I would also like to see some more discussion of the song's structure, arrangement, lyrical content, etc.

Also - chart performance is not given, which is a bit odd for such a well-known and influential song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.186.58 (talk) 14:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cover[edit]

What is the bizarre object the male person on the cover is holding?

It's a baby

Fair use rationale for Image:By My Baby single.jpg[edit]

Image:By My Baby single.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 15:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Album[edit]

I added Presenting the Fabulous Ronettes Featuring Veronica as the album in the infobox, but someone deleted it, citing that because the single was released over a year in advance that it was not "from" the album. I think this is dubious rationale. Although this is very rare and the concept of lead single and album from the time was not as solid as the industry sees today, I don't think it's false to attach this information. The album was a body of work and not a greatest hits compilation, so I don't see why it couldn't be considered a rare case of lead single coming so far ahead of its parent album. Artists today work just as long on albums, they just typically don't release so much material so well in advance. Thoughts? 73.191.184.198 (talk) 08:47, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There has been a discussion about this in the past. I believe the consensus stated something to the effect that unless a 1960s single was issued in advance of an album, it should not have a "from album" field. Can't find it right now but it's somewhere along Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs, Template talk:Infobox single, or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums. I reverted it back anyway simply because I'm not totally sure.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 10:05, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I can totally understand that. Found a modern example in the mean time: "Fine China" preceded Chris Brown's X by a year and almost 6 months. Interesting! 73.191.184.198 (talk) 04:52, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cover songs[edit]

@User:Binksternet For the Manchester version, I've provided two references where the subject of the song and it's 50th anniversary are discussed in reputable reliable sources, I can provide more. This meets WP:SONGCOVER

"the rendition is discussed by a reliable source on the subject of the song (not on the subject of the rendition)"

Additionally, the second clause of WP:SongCover is much broader than you tend to interpret.

"the rendition itself meets the notability requirement at WP:NSONGS."

When we look at WP:NSONGS we find...

Songs and singles are probably notable if they have been the subject[1] of multiple, non-trivial[2] published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label. This includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries and reviews.

3. "Has been independently released as a recording by several notable artists, bands, or groups."

Since there is no way to create a second article for a cover version, all that is really required is WP:RS coverage and some mention of the original version. Thus these song covers belong in the Cover section, Charting simply excuses the need for addition coverage.009o9 (talk) 05:46, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The sources[1] discussing Melissa Manchester's version are not talking about Be My Baby and all of its versions. Instead they are talking about Manchester's performance. Thus they fail WP:SONGCOVER which says that the source must be about the subject of the song, not the particular rendition. Same for Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys; same for the Beatles. The YouTube reference for the Chipettes is even less useful. Binksternet (talk) 05:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This book is the kind of reference that fits with the requirements of WP:SONGCOVER:

The 100 Greatest Rock 'n' Roll Songs Ever, pages 211–2, by Avram Mednick. It discusses various hit songs, one by one, including cover versions in a few cases. Unfortunately, it fails to mention any of the notable cover versions of this song. Binksternet (talk) 06:13, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Where are you getting "all its versions?" this text is not in WP:SONGCOVER or WP:NSONGS. Additionally, THIS article is about the SONG (or should be since we cannot create an additional article), not just the Ronnettes rendition of the song, they were just the first to chart with it. The song is discussed in the referenced ChicagoPride article: "The thing is that the song is brilliant. True to historical form, brilliant songs should be covered by many artists. It was the 50th anniversary of "Be My Baby" and it seemed appropriate." as displayed in he quote section of the ref.[2] The song does not have to be the subject of the article, the song only need be "discussed" by a reliable source -- Melissa Manchester. The Ronnettes version is the "rendition" that need not be discussed as per WP:SONGCOVER009o9 (talk) 06:41, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. If you are going to claim that this article is about a single, then WP:SONGCOVER would not apply if this is not a song article.009o9 (talk) 06:41, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.S. Rereading WP:NSONGS, the only part of the entire passage that would apply to cover renditions is Notability: "Songs and singles are probably notable if they have been the subject[1] of multiple, non-trivial[2] published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label." The rest of the WP:NSONGS passage is about whether or not to create a stand-alone article. In this case we already have a stand-alone song article.

So a with a re-read of WP:SONGCOVER we have:

the rendition itself meets the notability requirement at WP:NSONGS.

Thus rephrased, for the cover rendition in question, we need only meet the first sentence describing Notability in WP:NSONGS. 009o9 (talk) 07:27, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Binksternet thanks for that! It's not so much in this case, with established artists, but for emerging artists, who have some notability and WP:RS, the notable covers can help them with AfD evaluations of their own articles. IMHO song reuse is good for the industry, for both the established composers/writers and the emerging artists -- they are paying residuals through Sony and others. The industry path to notability has gotten murky and there is a lot of resistance to the YouTube on the Wikipedia, but that's where the "spins" are now. (see VidStatsX) The times are changing, the product is no longer audio only, it's audio and visual. A lot like the changeover from eight-track to cassette, this one is from MTV to YouTube (and maybe others). Thanks again for hearing me out!009o9 (talk) 09:12, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You will probably want to add your thoughts to the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Songs#WP:SONGCOVER_changes, where a loosening of the guideline is proposed. Until that succeeds, the guideline is quite strict. Binksternet (talk) 21:44, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personnel[edit]

Why isn't there a "personnel" section here, like with most classic tracks? There's not even a mention of Ronnie Spector singing the lead vocal. Seems a mess. O0drogue0o (talk) 13:08, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Because of WP:RS and WP:VERIFY. ili (talk) 15:53, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Who sung backup? Cher? Darlene? This is strange.[edit]

I looked something up and it says that Cher and Sonny Bono, with Darlene sung backup on this and I do not know if we should use this: https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/national-recording-preservation-board/documents/BE%20MY%20BABY.pdf TheGreatestLuvofAll ( chat with me ) 17:39, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]