I'm starting this as a source review of the Azov Battalion group/movement, particularly focused on description of the group re: the "neo-nazi" question. It can later be expanded to any other purpose! Please add sources to the following drop downs in chronological order, based on the type of source. And then note with the following key, how the source falls on the spectrum of "is a neo-nazi group" to "is not a neo-nazi group" and everywhere in between:— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 19:22, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closers and !voters: some of the colour-coding used in the below does not closely follow the content of the sources. While a coding scheme such as that used has its merits, editors should remember to focus on the source itself or at least the quote reproduced, and not be swayed by an interpretative framework which may be seriously contested. Cambial — foliar❧ 12:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": "Azov Battalion". Mapping Militant Organizations, Stanford University. March 2022. Retrieved 14 April 2022. Founded in 2014, the group promotes Ukrainian nationalism and neo-Nazism through its National Militia paramilitary organization and National Corps political wing.
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Fedorenko, Kostiantyn; Umland, Andreas (March 2022). "Between Frontline and Parliament: Ukrainian Political Parties and Irregular Armed Groups in 2014–2019". Nationalities Papers. 50 (2): 237–261. doi:10.1017/nps.2021.20. The Azov battalion and later regiment has been using stylized, coded neo-Nazi symbols such as the Black Sun and Wolf's Hook, yet it publicly denied that they refer to German fascism (Azov.Press 2015). ...quotes the alleged field-commander of Azov in early 2015 (Roman Zvarych) as saying he recruited "Georgian, American, Lithuanian, and British instructors, and to have advised the Azov movement to refrain from using symbols and ideas that could be linked to Nazism..."Note: some users consider this a passing mention of the term "neo-nazi."[1]
Book: "neo-nazi": Jackson, Paul (22 February 2022). Pride in prejudice. Manchester University Press. doi:10.7765/9781526156730. ISBN978-1-5261-5673-0. S2CID247079111. ...it attracted interest from a range of international neo-Nazi groups, including the Azov Battalion in Ukraine...Note: some users consider this a passing mention.[2]
Book Chapter: "with neo-nazi elements": Kotljarchuk, Andrej (February 2022). "The Counter-Narrative of WWII and the Far Right-Identity". In Mörner, Ninna (ed.). The Many Faces of the Far Right in the Post-Communist(PDF). Centre for Baltic and East European Studies, Södertörn University. pp. 61–75. ISBN978-91-85139-13-2. The internal historical narrative of Belarusian military volunteers in Donbas is based on neo Nazi values. The SS runes and insignia of the 30th Waffen SS division are on helmets of many volunteers. In 2016, police in the Vitebsk region arrested Stanislau Hancharou, one of the Belarusian volunteers in Ukraine, a soldier of the Azov Battalion. He was known in Donbas under his nickname Terror Machine. The media published photos of his body covered by tattoos presenting an illustrated history of Wafen SS and Nazi atrocities. The symbols of the 30th Waffen SS divisio nand Sonderkommando Dirlewanger are adjacent to the image of SS soldiers, as well as a panorama of a death camp with a guard in front shooting a prisoner in the head.
Book: "neo-nazi": Bacigalupo, James; Valeri, Robin Maria; Borgeson, Kevin (14 January 2022). Cyberhate: The Far Right in the Digital Age. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 113. ISBN978-1-7936-0698-3 – via Google Books. The ascendency of a transnational global fascist terrorist network has drawn accelerationists seeking military training with openly neo-Nazi, white supremacist, anti-Semitic organizations like the Azov battalion, who recruited from...Note: some users consider this a passing mention of the term "Azov".[4]
Book: "with neo-nazi elements": Kuzio, Taras (2022). Russian nationalism and the Russian-Ukrainian War. Abingdon, Oxon: Taylor & Francis Group. ISBN978-1-003-19143-8. OCLC1273727328. p. 196: A small number of Russian fascist and neo-Nazi groups opposed Russian military aggression against Ukraine. These included the National Democrats, the National Democratic Alliance, and the Slavic Force. Some of their members joined the Azov Regiment, a unit of Ukraine's national guard largely composed of Russian-speaking eastern Ukrainians. Azov' s political party, the National Corps, has neo-Nazi sympathies
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Chinchilla, Alexandra; Driscoll, Jesse (23 December 2021). "Side-Switching as State-Building: the Case of Russian-Speaking Militias in Eastern Ukraine". Studies in Conflict & Terrorism: 1–20. doi:10.1080/1057610X.2021.2013760. S2CID245484464. Despite its formal incorporation into the National Guard, Azov still maintains its own recruiting facilities – in a Kyiv building, Cossack House, that also houses other right-wing organizations, the National Corps leadership, and Azov's barely-disguised outreach efforts to right-wing groups across Europe. It rents Cossack House from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense to maintain physical autonomy. War has been profitable for Azov and other far-right groups, as well...Even the most ideologically-motivated militias, therefore, find they have material incentives to align with the state and capture their share of pork.
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Nonjon, Adrien (21 December 2021). "Forging the Body of the New Ukrainian Nation: Sport as a Gramscist Tool for the Ukrainian Far-Right". Journal of Illiberalism Studies. 1 (2): 59–74. doi:10.53483/VCIV3532. For a majority of citizens, these ultranationalist movements and their battalion of volunteers are elite forces that have acquired full legitimacy thanks to their victories, whatever their ideology may be...Deliberately choosing a formal integration into the National Guard, the [Azov] regiment's main objective has been "to further develop its organizational structure and reinvigorate both its media outreach and mobilizational potential."
Book: "neo-nazi": Allchorn, William (21 December 2021). Moving beyond Islamist Extremism. BoD – Books on Demand. p. 35. ISBN978-3-8382-1490-0 – via Google Books. ...antisemitic and white-supremacist conspiracy theories circulated by openly neo-fascist and neo-Nazi groups, such as the Azov Battalion in the Ukraine...Note: some users consider this a passing mention.[6]
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Tarasiuk, Taras; Umland, Andreas (29 September 2021). "Unexpected Friendships: Cooperation of Ukrainian Ultra-Nationalists with Russian and Pro-Kremlin Actors". Illiberalism Studies Program Working Papers. Retrieved 25 April 2022. The Azov movement has its roots in a little known and initially Russian-speaking Kharkiv groupuscule called "Patriot of Ukraine."...By autumn 2014, the battalion had become a well-known professional military unit and was transformed into the fully regular "Azov" Regiment of the National Guard under the Ministry of Interior of Ukraine. It has since been considered one of Ukraine's most capable armed formations. The regiment's commanders claim it is now operating according to NATO standards. In winter 2015, veterans and volunteers of the regiment created the Azov Civil Corps and thereby started to expand their political grouping into a multi-faceted social movement.
Book Chapter: "with neo-nazi elements"/"neo-nazi": Dyck, Kristen (22 September 2021). "Holodomor and Holocaust memory in competition and cooperation". Denial: the final stage of genocide?. Taylor & Francis Group. ISBN978-1-000-43736-2. OCLC1263262115. The Azov Battalion and other combat units recycle Nazi visual symbols like the Wolfsangel " and "the Azov Battalion, and other far-right paramilitary organizations often claim their neo-Nazi symbols have nothing to do with anti-Semitism anymore. ... Of course, the argument falters when groups like the Azov Battalion appear in public saying they do not much care that their symbols evoke painful, violent repression for Holocaust survivors and their descendants.
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": MacKenzie, Alex; Kaunert, Christian (25 March 2021). "Radicalisation, Foreign Fighters and the Ukraine Conflict: A Playground for the Far-Right?". Social Sciences. 10 (4): 116. doi:10.3390/socsci10040116. The Azov Regiment, Right Sector, and Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists were or are overtly far-right, while others are or were not so, including the Georgian National Legion...However, Kyiv soon recognised the problems and negative attention brought about by the foreign fighters, including for the purpose of Russian propaganda. It therefore disbanded and integrated these groups into the military by 2016, although some rogue elements persisted into 2019
2020
Primary: "has been accused": Aliyev, Huseyn (2020-07-15). ""Unlikely Recruits": Why Politically Irrelevant Ethnic Minorities Participate in Civil Wars?". Studies in Conflict & Terrorism. 46 (6). Informa UK Limited: 847–869. doi:10.1080/1057610x.2020.1793457. ISSN1057-610X. S2CID225641399. notorious for their ultranationalist and far-right ideological stance. Combining radical Ukrainian nationalism with elements of Slavic paganism, "Azov" battalion in particular served as the hub for ultranationalist activists from all walks of life, including, but not limited to football hooligans (ultras) and former members of security forces... Notwithstanding the battalions' scandalous ideological background, both "Azov" and DUK attracted large numbers of recruits from the Ukrainian ethnic minorities... While many Crimean Tatars were serving with DUK, Crimean Tatar activists have also collaborated with "Azov" members during the blockade of Crimea events... Some [Jews] were even credited with participating in establishing the "Azov" battalion. Most continued practicing Judaism while serving with volunteer battalions... The battalions' ethnic diversity was widely employed to counter the image of these armed groups as ultranationalist or neo-Nazi organizations. In the words of an "Azov" representative, "our regiment has people from most nationalities in Ukraine and beyond." He further added that "although some [pro-Russian] sources call us fascists, we have Jews and Muslims among our members, … we even have Jewish founding members. How can we be neo-Nazis?."
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Katchanovski, Ivan (19 December 2020). "The far right, the Euromaidan, and the Maidan massacre in Ukraine". Journal of Labor and Society. 23 (1): 5–36. doi:10.1111/lands.12457 (inactive 2023-12-13). Vadym Troian, who was a member of the neo-Nazi Patriot of Ukraine and one of the commanders of the Azov battalion, became the first deputy head of the National Police. Yuri Mykhalchyshyn, a Svoboda deputy, who expressed his neo-Nazi views, stated that he held a senior position in an SBU department in charge of information.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of December 2023 (link)
Primary: "neo-nazi": Edelman, Marc (9 November 2020). "From 'populist moment' to authoritarian era: challenges, dangers, possibilities". The Journal of Peasant Studies. 47 (7): 1418–1444. doi:10.1080/03066150.2020.1802250. ISSN0306-6150. S2CID225214310. Just as hundreds of U.S. and European white supremacists joined Croatian paramilitaries fighting for 'ethnic cleansing' in the 1990s Balkan wars, the current training of foreign white nationalists in Ukrainian military units, such as the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, points to...Note: some users consider this a passing mention.[7]
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Nonjon, Adrien (September 2020). "Olena Semenyaka The "First Lady" of Ukrainian Nationalism". Illiberalism Studies Program Working Papers. Retrieved 25 April 2022. Gaining in visibility as the Azov regiment transformed into a multifaceted movement, Semenyaka has become a major nationalist theorist in Ukraine...Through its extensive financial resources stemming from various nationalist "warlords"—and its integration into the Ukrainian National Guard, headed by the Minister of the Interior, Arsen Avakov, in May 2014—the Azov regiment has been capable of instigating numerous initiatives to enter the Ukrainian political arena in a true Gramscist style: a strategy in which the political battle must be fought above all in the cultural field.
Primary: "neo-nazi": Reid Ross, Alexander; Bevensee, Emmi (July 2020), "Confronting the Rise of EcoFascism Means Grappling with Complex Systems"(PDF), Centre for Analysis of the Radical Right, These groups leverage a white "Indigenous" identity in allyship with neo-Nazi groups like the Azov Batallion, Misanthropic Division, and Right Sector fighting Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine many of whom are, themselves, Duginists.Note: some users consider this a passing mention.[8]
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements/formerly": Aliyev, Huseyn (16 July 2020). "Pro-government Anti-government Armed Groups? Toward Theorizing Pro-government "Government Challengers""(PDF). Terrorism and Political Violence. 34 (7). Informa UK Limited: 1369–1385. doi:10.1080/09546553.2020.1785877. ISSN0954-6553. S2CID225626866. particularly "Azov," DUK and the OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists) battalions—were created on the basis of previously existent ultranationalist or neo-Nazi groups." and "Although when first assembled in April–May 2014 the DUK/UDA, "Azov," "Aydar" and many other battalions promoted ultranationalist and even neo-Nazi views, as the battalions became more ideologically mature their radical right-wing ideology gradually toned down.
Book chapter: "formerly/with neo-nazi elements": Umland, Andreas (June 2020). "Irregular Militias and Radical Nationalism in Post-Euromaydan Ukraine: The Prehistory and Emergence of the "Azov" Battalion in 2014". The 21st Century Cold War (Taylor & Francis). 31: 105–131. doi:10.1080/09546553.2018.1555974. S2CID150443541. As briefly illustrated below, the formerly neo-Nazi leanings in the leadership of this group that today controls a relatively large military unit could present several problems. The regiment's key commanders held, in the past, manifestly fascist views and may still hold them to one degree or another today. That would put into question the regiment's public respectability as well as the need for special scrutiny of its further development.
Secondary: "with neo-nazi elements": Lister, Tim (April 2020). "The Nexus Between Far-Right Extremists in the United States and Ukraine". CTC Sentinel. 13 (4). a country with a well-established, trained, and equipped far-right militia—the Azov Regiment—that has been actively engaged in the conflict against Russian-backed separatists in Donbas...In 2014, as pro-Russian groups began to seize parts of the Donbas, a neo-Nazi group that called itself Patriot of Ukraine formed a battalion to reinforce the beleaguered Ukrainian army. Few qualifications were required, and volunteers came from all walks of life. The group soon became better known as the Azov Regiment.
2019
Book: "neo-nazi": Mudde, Cas (25 October 2019). The Far Right Today. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN978-1-5095-3685-6 – via Google Books. march through the streets of Kyiv, sometimes in torchlight processions, to commemorate old and new far-right heroes, including those of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, which fights against the Russian-backed occupation of Crimea.Note: some users consider this a passing mention.[9]
Primary: "Does not mention"/Attributed: "with neo-nazi elements": Bukkvoll, Tor (4 January 2019). "Fighting on behalf of the state—the issue of pro-government militia autonomy in the Donbas war". Post-Soviet Affairs. 35 (4). Taylor and Francis: 293–307. doi:10.1080/1060586X.2019.1615810. S2CID164870902. However, as mentioned, Pravii Sektor has continued to fight without formally submitting to the control of regular forces; and the Azov battalion, despite nominally being subordinated within official structures, continues in practice to operate with significant autonomy....Quote from Arsen Avakov, Interior Minister (2016): "And, we had even more doubts about the Azov battalion. In particular, we were sceptical towards the religious motives of several of their people, and about their right-wing radicalism. But I was thinking, what is worse, that they run the streets breaking shop windows or that they feel some responsibility for their country and do a bit of fighting? This was my logic at the time."
2018
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Saressalo, Teemu; Huhtinen, Aki-Mauri (2 October 2018). "The Information Blitzkrieg — "Hybrid" Operations Azov Style". The Journal of Slavic Military Studies. 31 (4). Informa UK Limited: 423–443. doi:10.1080/13518046.2018.1521358. ISSN1351-8046. S2CID150074996. The Azov Battalion stands out among these because of its Nazi rhetoric and symbolism, which are not as prominent in most other battalions...What sets the Azov Battalion apart from other volunteer units in Eastern Ukraine is its outspoken neo-Nazi views and use of questionable symbols p.440, Ideology
2017
Primary: "has been accused"/"Does not mention": Käihkö, Ilmari (4 December 2017). "A nation-in-the-making, in arms: control of force, strategy and the Ukrainian Volunteer Battalions". Defence Studies. 18 (2). Taylor & Francis: 146–166. doi:10.1080/14702436.2018.1461013. The nature of volunteers deserves additional attention, especially as they are simultaneously viewed with suspicion by some because of their perceived connection to extreme political movements, and hailed as heroes by others...While this can be interpreted as the negation of the strategy to undermine it, Azov nevertheless offers the best example of the evolution of the volunteer battalions from revolutionaries with construction helmets and ice hockey armor to disciplined military formations closely paying attention to NATO standards.
Primary: "neo-nazi": Buckholz, Quentin (7 November 2017). "The Dogs That Didn't Bark". Problems of Post-Communism. 66 (3). Informa UK Limited: 151–160. doi:10.1080/10758216.2017.1367256. ISSN1075-8216. S2CID158734607. Despite significant criticism from Ukraine's international donors, Avakov has continued to defend Azov, which is the military wing of the white supremacist, neo-Nazi Social-National Assembly of Ukraine.
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Ragozin, Leonid (2017). "Brothers in Arms: Why Russian ultranationalists confronted their own government on the battlefields of Ukraine". World Policy Journal. 34 (2): 91–98. doi:10.1215/07402775-4191391. ISSN1936-0924. S2CID157918103. Retrieved 12 April 2022. "Zheleznov emerged from his first prison term after two years, a rising star of the far right. He was recruited by perhaps the most prominent Russian neo-Nazi of the time, Maksim Martsinkevich. Also known by his nickname, Tesak, meaning "The Hatchet," Martsinkevich was as much a showman as a militant. He was even featured on Russian TV shows and on the British documentary series, Ross Kemp on Gangs. He appointed Zheleznov as PR man for his new organization, Restruct, which became known for harassing people whom it claimed were pedophiles—though most of them, Zheleznov now admits, were just "regular gays."" (Note: Zheleznov, along with many other Russian neo-nazis, are prominent members of the Azov Battalion [10])
2016
Primary: "neo-nazi": Mandel, David (2 January 2016). "The conflict in Ukraine". Journal of Contemporary Central and Eastern Europe. 24 (1). Informa UK Limited: 83–88. doi:10.1080/0965156x.2016.1171011. ISSN2573-9638. S2CID156126251. To cite just two examples, Vadim Troyan, deputy commander of the neo-nazi Azov Regiment and active member of the neo-nazi paramilitary organisation Patriot of Ukraine...
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements": Bezruk, Tetjana; Umland, Andreas; Weichsel, Volker (2015). "Der Fall "Azov": Freiwilligenbataillone in der Ukraine". Osteuropa. 65 (1/2): 33–41. ISSN0030-6428. JSTOR44936628. Retrieved 11 April 2022. However, only some of the members of the Azov association, which has now become a regiment, as well as other nationalist volunteer battalions, are openly racist
Primary:: "has been accused": Kuzio, Taras (2015-06-01). "A new framework for understanding nationalisms in Ukraine: democratic revolutions, separatism and Russian hybrid war". Geopolitics, History, and International Relations. 7 (1): 30–52. ISSN1948-9145. Retrieved 2022-04-27. In the 1990s SNPU's symbol was suspiciously similar to the Hakenkreuz (hook-cross or swastika) used by the Nazis and the symbol continues to be used by the SNA, giving rise to Western press reports of the "neo-Nazi" Azov, although they now claim that the symbol stands for "SN" (Slava Natsii [Glory to the Nation]).
Discussion of Scholarship sources, quotations, and assessments
Glenn Diesen has been widely criticized for promoting Russian propaganda
Somehow, Glenn Diesen is listed as a top-scholar and the first source in the "Scholarship" section. Yet, he is widely known as a Russian Today speaker, for allegedly promoting Russian propaganda (according to Scandinavian media, Russia experts and other scholars) and for being a contributor for a conspiracy theory website. Surprised nobody brought this up, in more than one month. Mcrt007 (talk) 16:37, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And not only is Diesen considered highly unreliable, this is a passing mention in a text about "Russophobia" not a text about the Ukrainian right. I think we should remove this source. BobFromBrockley (talk) 22:15, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Xx236 The entire question is about how academics refer to this group. I will note your dispute on the source itself, because it is entirely reasonable to say that it is a "drive-by" which is not as helpful to determining coverage. (I will say i dispute this characterization and I think it is a perfectly fine quotation showing that the authors considered this question and weighed in on it. Conclusion sections aren't everything for our purposes.) — Shibbolethink(♔♕) 10:15, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Xx236 Books are part of scholarship. Do you have a higher quality RS which backs up your assertions here? We rely on RSes to determine who is and is not an expert.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 10:14, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do not criticize books, but I have access to selected pages by Google only, not to whole books.Xx236 (talk) 11:33, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Authors are experts on far right, but not on Ukraine. Is an RS, but not the strongest. One brief mention of Azov in a whole book: counts as drive-by I think. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:47, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Harsha Walia is a (radical) Canadian activist based in Vancouver
Walia is a radical activist and the quoted book 'Border and Rule' demands no borders politics. 'The system... must be dismantled.' This Wikipedia is a part of the system, so let's dismantle it. No EE knowledge expected, so she quotes probably someone.Xx236 (talk) 08:52, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Xx236 do you have an RS (preferably one higher in quality (see WP:PARITY) which states this? We trust our RSes' assessment of expertise, not our personal opinions.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 10:13, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Walia's radicalism and her position on borders is not at all relevant here. However, this is clearly a not particularly informed passing mention in a book about something completely different. She has no specific expertise on Nazism or Ukraine. I'd strike this source. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:49, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
2014 Battalion
Please do not mix up 2014 and 2022.
@User:Xx236 this is the crux of the entire sourcing question (Are these two groups contiguous wrt members, etc). By showing the chronology of the souricng, we help answer that question objectively and without bias. If these two groups are completely separate, it should become clear in the sources and how our best available RSes cover this content.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 10:11, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are right. However Umland, Andreas (June 2020) is (title) about 2014. The DOI was wrong, I replaced it, now it works but looks bad. Xx236 (talk) 10:19, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can you format it correctly? The text uses the words "today" referring to 2020, and also refers to the past (as in 2014). I see no problem there. Everyone can read the title for themselves and the quotation and make their own conclusions to verify the assessment. Hence why the characterization says "formerly."— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 10:38, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Moving beyond Islamist Extremism - Combat 14/8
The book criticizes Azov and Combat 14/8. Google does not know such group, does someone know it?Xx236 (talk) 10:15, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Both Allchorn and Mudde are highly regarded experts on the global far right, but neither of them has any specific expertise on Ukraine, so I would count these as less weighty than more expert takes such as Umland's. See also my comments in source discussion in RfC below. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:57, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nationalities Papers
Primary: "with neo-nazi elements/says not neo-nazi": :Gomza, Ivan; Zajaczkowski, Johann (September 2019). "Black Sun Rising: Political Opportunity Structure Perceptions and Institutionalization of the Azov Movement in Post-Euromaidan Ukraine". Nationalities Papers. 47 (5): 774–800. doi:10.1017/nps.2019.30. S2CID213989920. carried out an in-depth study of Azov members' activity online, and their results attributed a characterization of "Radical" far right nationalist to 38% of members, and precisely 0% as Nazi or neo-Nazi.
I've removed the above source from the list as I have read through the paper and consider the summary and categories attached to it to be a gross misreading of the text. The journal, as far as I can parse, never studied the neo-Nazism of the group. The paper is a study of political opportunity structure as it relates to Asov. I'm not actually sure that this paper can even be used to add to this particular RfC. Vladimir.copic (talk) 03:33, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In that case we definitely have remove Jackson, Stilhoff Sörensen, Bacigalupo, Walia, Allchorn, Edelman, Reid Ross, Mudde, and probably Buckholz, because none of them studied Azov and none of them (except maybe Buckholz) have any expertise on Ukraine or access to Ukrainian or Russian sources. They’re passing mentions in books/articles about other things. Some of them are experts on fascism; others (Walia, Edelman, Stilhoff Sörensen) aren’t even that BobFromBrockley (talk) 09:29, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The quotes show they considered Nazism and Azov. Their expertise is a question that needs to be answered with RSes, not our opinions. And expertise in extremism is enough for our purposes. I'm definitely open to the idea that Walia or others aren't experts in any of these or adjacent fields, but we need RSes to show that. It's not a high bar, if we have RSes which show that their training is in something else and they don't work in this area, that's enough to exclude them.
However, if they have expertise in extremism, that is enough to include them. If all we accepted was experts in Azov AND experts in Nazism, then we basically lose everything in this list. One does not need to be an expert in the narrowest thing in order to be worth listening to. They just need to be a reasonably-trustworthy expert which our sources trust as an expert. Jackson and Sörenson covered Azov because the quote shows they did.
If it's a passing mention that's a different matter and will happily note that. But we can't just remove sources because you or someone else thinks the person who wrote them is not trustworthy, that's an extremely subjective measure. We either need RSes or a local/global wiki consensus to support that action. Otherwise it's a mechanism that's too easy to abuse. And I mean that for any source of any kind in this list.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 11:18, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do also want to say I agree that this Black Sun Rising source should be excluded, and I will revert if someone re-adds it as well. The criticism from VC is accurate, they do not include "Nazi" or "Neo-Nazi" in their categories, so we should NOT be saying that it was "0% Neo-nazi". That's extremely misleading and inappropriate. Worse than cherry-picking, it is willful mis-understanding.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 11:26, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have reread Vladimir comment and realise I misunderstood it. I’ve also read the Nationalities Papers article and agree the summary is misleading. It says “far right” but is neither here nor there on the question of “neo-Nazi”. BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's okay! I think pretty much everyone here has made mistakes while making this source review. And that's why it's so important to have multiple contributors all helping out from different perspectives.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 21:49, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've finally gotten around to reading this carefully. My strong conclusion is that Vladimir is correct that it was mischaracterised before, but wrong to remove it. It should return but with the tag "Does not mention". It's true it is not focused on characterising the group's ideology, but that is also true of most of the articles which say "neo-Nazi" which simply mention the group in passing. The other issue is that it looks at the whole Azov movement, not the Battalion/Regiment. The article exhaustively examines the group and describes it repeatedly as "far-right". It also indicates shift over time: "originally a far-right groupuscule", they note a shift towards mainstream politics. "We argue that although Azov kept part of its subcultural nationalist thrust, this did not preclude conversion into a pragmatic movement well integrated into conventional politics." In short, this strong source would give us "far-right" and "nationalist" but not "neo-Nazi" and definitely not in the present tense. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:09, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Bobfrombrockley: you are right. Removing the Nationalities Papers article was unjustified. Not including an article from a peer-reviewed academic journal published by Cambridge University Press because is not scholarly enough, while including much weaker sources from non-academics is ridiculous. Mcrt007 (talk) 19:52, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Some non-experts are being presented as experts. Why?
Harsha Walia, for examples, is not an academic nor a researcher/scholar. She has zero peer reviewed research articles on extremism or Eastern European studies, and no reliable source seems to present her as such. Why was she even considered a scholar on the current topic? Mcrt007 (talk) 18:56, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Attributed: "with neo-nazi elements": "Ukraine's nationalists and the Azov battalion". Financial Times. 19 May 2022. Retrieved 20 May 2022. Kim Scheppele (Princeton University): Now, the current Azov battalion is much less of a neo-Nazi formation than it was, but there's still remnants of neo-Nazis in that battalion. And that's the one little tiny piece of Ukraine where this neo-Nazi sort of propaganda has a slight bit of truth.
"has been accused": Berman, Lazar; Newman, Marissa (17 May 2022). "Senior Zelensky aide to ToI: We are waiting for Israel to change its stance on war". The Times of Israel. Retrieved 20 May 2022. One of the Ukrainian units still holding out in the steel plant over the weekend is the Azov Regiment, a formation that has been accused since its formation in 2014 of associations with neo-Nazi ideology
"with neo-nazi elements"/"has been accused": Patrick J. McDonnell; David Pierson; Tracy Wilkinson; Parvini, Sarah (18 May 2022). "U.S. to offer Sweden security guarantees as war in Ukraine enters a new phase". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 20 May 2022. Lawmakers had cited the Azov regiment, a militia with neo-Nazi roots that was absorbed into Ukraine's military and which Moscow says still comprises Nazis.
""formerly": Davidson, Vladislav (18 May 2022). "The Defenders of Mariupol". Tablet. Retrieved 14 May 2022. Branding the Azov Battalion as 'neo-Nazi' long after it shed its far-right origins is part of a deafening corruption of public discourse. [...] the Azov Battalion, a special operations detachment of the Ukrainian National Guard with a past neo-Nazi association [...] The original, post-Maidan composition of Azov was quickly diluted, and the ghost of Biletsky was replaced with regular officers of the Interior Ministry. By 2017, the battalion as a whole remained distinguished—but for its martial prowess, not for some distinct political ideology.
"with neo-nazi elements": Sokol, Sam (17 May 2022). "How many Jews fought at Mariupol's Azovstal plant? Depends who's counting - Europe". Haaretz. Retrieved 20 May 2022. Many of those fighting at the plant were members of the Azov Regiment – a far-right volunteer unit with neo-Nazi ties that was incorporated into the Ukrainian armed forces in 2014.
"with neo-nazi elements": Lamoureux, Mack (16 May 2022). "Pro-Kremlin Influencers Are Using the Buffalo Shooting to Undermine Ukraine". VICE. Retrieved 20 May 2022. The symbol was also used previously by Azov Battalion, an infamous group in the Ukrainian national guard with well-known neo-Nazi and extreme-right ties.
""formerly far-right militia"/""has been accused": Gall, Carlotta (14 May 2022). "Turkey Offers to Evacuate Mariupol Fighters Despite Disagreements". New York Times. Retrieved 14 May 2022. The evacuation of soldiers was complicated in particular by the inclusion of members of the Azov battalion, a former far-right militia now formally integrated into the Ukrainian Army. Russia has branded them as Nazis, and Mr. Putin has said the war was intended to carry out the 'denazification' of Ukraine.
"with neo-nazi elements": Forgey, Quint (12 May 2022). "The cruel irony of being arrested in Putin's Russia". POLITICO. Retrieved 17 May 2022. The organization perhaps most often mentioned by Russian state media is the Azov Battalion — founded as a volunteer militia and later incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine — which has attracted a significant number of members with far-right and neo-Nazi sympathies.
"has been accused": Colin, Freeman (12 May 2022). "Ukraine's 'wounded, crippled' Azovstal plant soldiers make last-ditch plea for rescue". Telegraph. Retrieved 12 May 2022. the Azov Battalion, the unit making a last stand at the plant ... The brigade's political outlook has also diluted since being formally integrated into the Ukraine military, with far-Right members leaving and new recruits joining mainly for its reputation of fighting prowess .... Many were said to have Nazi sympathies – although in Ukraine, which suffered Soviet as well as Nazi occupation, far-Right support can be as much about riling Moscow as claiming white supremacy ... Lt Ilya Samoylenko, a young, bearded commander who looks more like a Hoxton hipster than a neo-Nazi bootboy, told reporters: 'We are always accused of being paramilitary Neo-nazi bandits, and all this blah-blah bulls--- about being far-Right radicals. The only thing we are radical on is defending our country.'
"Does not mention" Hall, Ben (8 May 2022). "Ukrainian commanders lash out at Kyiv over Mariupol resistance". Financial Times. Retrieved 11 May 2022. The Azov regiment, the military unit that has been leading Ukraine's resistance from a last redoubt ... The Azov battalion has far-right origins but was incorporated into the Ukrainian armed forces in 2014 and is considered one of the best-trained parts of the military.
with neo-nazi elements"/"has been accused": Koshiw, Isobel (9 May 2022). "'Surrender is not an option': Azov battalion commander in plea for help to escape Mariupol". The Guardian. Retrieved 20 May 2022. Azov fighters say its membership holds a range of political opinions. Azov formed as a volunteer battalion in 2014 to fight Russian-backed forces and some its leaders are known to hold far-right views. But since 2015, it has been part of the Ukrainian army and no longer attracts only far-right combatants. [...] Russia claims its members are neo-Nazis who are responsible for "Nazifying" Ukraine.
"says not neo-nazi": "Why 9 May Victory Day is so important for Russia". BBC. 9 May 2022. Retrieved 20 May 2022. The city may lie in ruins, but Russia has repeatedly talked of "de-Nazification and demilitarisation" of Ukraine and it may claim defeat of the Azov battalion, which it has falsely portrayed as Nazi. That would resonate on a day marking World War Two.
"with neo-nazi elements"/Attributed: "formerly: Heritage, Timothy (4 May 2022). "Ukrainian supporters rally behind embattled Azov regiment". France 24. Retrieved 12 May 2022. Ukraine's Azov regiment -- a far-right volunteer battalion turned Ukrainian national guard unit ... 'The Azov Regiment is part of the national guard of Ukraine, it is not an independent paramilitary unit anymore. The connection with right-wing, radical politicians remains in history,' said Volodymyr Fesenko, a Kyiv-based political analyst.
"neo-nazi": Foresta, Mathew (29 April 2022). "Meet the Sneakiest Defenders of Putin's Invasion of Ukraine". The Daily Beast. Retrieved 17 May 2022. During the interview, Ritter claims there is a battalion of Azov in "every brigade" of the Ukrainian Armed Forces—a reference to the notorious neo-Nazi Azov battalion. While Azov is very real and represents a very serious and concerning part of the far right in Ukraine, Ritter's claims are misinformation.Note: The Daily Beast is considered to be a biased or opinionated source that should be used with caution.
"neo-nazi": Duggan, Joe (25 April 2022). "Photos show civilians hiding in Azovstal steelworks as Ukraine says Russia tried to storm plant". i News. Retrieved 28 April 2022. In a separate video released by the Azov battalion – an extremist, neo-Nazi group formed as a volunteer militia brigade in 2014 in Ukraine – a day earlier on Saturday, people trapped at the encircled plant said they are desperate to get out and are running out of food.
"neo-nazi": Sood, Jai (24 April 2022). "'Ukraine to withdraw from talks with Russia if Mariupol forces killed'". The Statesman. Retrieved 28 April 2022. However, President Vladimir Putin called off the assault on the Azovstal factory, which remains the last holdout of Ukrainian forces, including the fighters of the neo-Nazi Azov regiment, in the strategic port city.
Attributed: "neo-nazi": Mclean, Caitlin (23 April 2022). "Halper: Some lawmakers 'beating the drum' for World War III". The Hill. Retrieved 17 May 2022. Halper said the U.S. is still treating the war in Ukraine as a proxy war by providing arms to Ukraine, some of which are reaching groups like the far-right neo-Nazi Azov Batalian.
"with neo-nazi elements": Watling, Jack (23 April 2022). "In Mariupol, Putin now rules a wasteland pitted with mass graves". the Guardian. Retrieved 28 April 2022. Mariupol's defenders were made up of marines and members of the Azov battalion, a unit associated with a far-right political party and containing a significant proportion of neo-Nazis.
"neo-nazi"/"has been accused": "Israeli weapon seen used by Neo-Nazi Ukrainian unit against Russia". The Jerusalem Post. 20 April 2022. Retrieved 21 April 2022. An anti-armor weapon jointly developed by Israel, Singapore and a German company has been seen in operational use by the Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion against Russian military forces." and "The recently published video shows that these partly Israeli-developed weapons are now in the hands of the Azov Battalion, which has been widely characterized as a neo-Nazi militia.
"formerly/with neo-nazi elements": Follorou, Jacques (17 April 2022). "War in Ukraine: The Azov brigade's last stand in Mariupol". Le Monde. Retrieved 22 April 2022. Yet its integration in September 2014 into Ukraine's National Guard and the recruitment of many candidates without political affiliation, attracted only by its reputation as an elite corps, have gradually marginalized the most extremist elements. This troop is now characterized by Western military experts as "ultranationalist" and "anti-Russian."
Attributed: "formerly/with neo-nazi elements": Miller, Jonas; Kagermeier, Elisabeth (13 April 2022). "Azov Regiment: Ukrainian Heroes or Extremists?". Bayerischer Rundfunk/Bavarian Broadcasting (In German). Retrieved 29 April 2022. Azov itself propagates this distinction: Regiment and party (movement) are independent of each other. They are two sides of the same coin, Stephan Kramer, head of the Office for the Protection of the Constitution of Thuringia, tells ARD. According to Lara Schultz, there is also an "incompatibility decision": active fighters could not become party members. An employee of a German security agency also supports this assessment: at the regiment, a right-wing extremist ideology plays "rather a subordinate role," she says in an interview with #Faktenfuchs; she does not want to be named. The regiment, however, is only showing itself to be more moderate. Extremism researcher Alexander Ritzmann of the Counter Extremism Project told ARD in March 2022 that the regiment had also disarmed in its symbolism. The wolfsangel - a symbol used by right-wing extremists - is still in the Azov emblem, he said, but other extremist symbols have been removed. In Ukrainian, the wolfsangel means something like "our nation.
Attributed: "neo-nazi": "Canada failed when it trained Ukrainian troops linked to the far right, says Nazi hunter". Ottawa Citizen. 13 April 2022. Retrieved 18 April 2022. Others have claimed allegations made against the Azov regiment are part of a Russian disinformation campaign. Zuroff dismisses such claims. "It's not Russian propaganda, far from it," he explained. "These people are neo-Nazis. There is an element of the ultra-right in Ukraine and it's absurd to ignore it."
"with neo-nazi elements": Katerji, Oz (12 April 2022). "By focusing on the Azov Battalion we are falling into Putin's trap". The New Statesman. Retrieved 14 April 2022. There is no way to sugar-coat this story: the racist views of senior Azov figures since its founding can be accurately described as neo-Nazi.
"neo-nazi"/Attributed: "formerly": Azhari, Khaldon (10 April 2022). "Ukrainian Azov Battalion removed from Japan's International Terrorists' list". Arab News Japan. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Japan's Public Security Intelligence Agency removed the Ukrainian ultra-right, neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, which has been fighting the Russian-backed groups since 2014, from its International Terrorism Guide 2021 and apologized for having it on the list...Azov Battalion was reportedly established as a military infantry unit made up of volunteers belonging to the far-right, neo-Nazi groups active in Ukraine. In November 2014, Azov recaptured the strategic port city of Mariupol from the pro-Russian groups.
Attributed: "formerly": Romandash, Anna (10 April 2022). "Why has "Azov" become Putin and Xi's favorite propaganda weapon?". CommonWealth Magazine (Name in Chinese: 天下雜誌). Retrieved 12 April 2022. "The narrative related to "Azov" is very bizarre. It is wrong to call them Neo-Nazis because even the fact that the unit includes people of different nationalities proves the opposite." Matviyishyn explains, that the regiment includes very many different people of various ethnicities such as Jews, Ukrainians, Georgians, and even Russians. "Azov" has gone through a transformation in comparison to how it was when it was founded. "In the beginning, it had these right-wing radicals political ideologies, but now, it is depoliticized unit, a part of Ukraine's Armed Forces."
"formerly/with neo-nazi elements": Krähenbühl, Hélène (8 April 2022). "Meeting the Azov regiment, accused by Russia of being infested with "neo-Nazis"?". Radio Télévision Suisse (In French). Retrieved 12 April 2022. But the gradual arrival of new apolitical members expanded the regiment to the point that the far-right ideology became marginal.
"with neo-nazi elements": Raghavan, Sudarasan; Morris, Loveday; Parker, Claire (6 April 2022). "Right-wing Azov Battalion emerges as a controversial defender of Ukraine". Washington Post. Retrieved 11 April 2022. The Azov battalion is also not what it was in 2014. Ever since it was incorporated into Ukraine's National Guard late that year, they "had to purge a lot of those extremist elements," said Mollie Saltskog, a senior intelligence analyst at the Soufan Group. "There was much more control exerted over who is affiliated with the battalions.
Attributed: "formerly/with neo-nazi elements": Philip, Catherine (30 March 2022). "Azov Battalion: 'We are patriots – we're fighting the real Nazis of the 21st century'". The Times. Retrieved 13 April 2022. Azov has its fair share of football hooligans and ultranationalists but also scholars like Zaikovsky, who worked as a translator and book editor. Anton Shekhovtsov, an expert in the European right, claims Azov has evolved so far from its origins as to make its far-right roots meaningless.
"with neo-nazi elements": Lister, Tim; John, Tara (29 March 2022). "A far-right battalion has a key role in Ukraine's resistance. Its neo-Nazi history has been exploited by Putin". CNN. Retrieved 11 April 2022. For Putin, who has falsely claimed Ukraine's government is run by "drug addicts and neo-Nazis," Azov presents an obvious target. Moscow has given the regiment an outsized role in the conflict, routinely accusing it of human rights abuses...In the Russian disinformation playbook, the Azov movement is a tempting target -- one where fact and disinformation can be elided...Rekawek, an expert on foreign fighters at C-REX, said Azov has only been able to recruit 20 foreign fighters since the start of the 2022 invasion.
Attributed: "formerly/has been accused": Schipani, Andres; Olearchyk, Roman (29 March 2022). "'Don't confuse patriotism and Nazism': Ukraine's Azov forces face scrutiny". Financial Times. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Azov's history is rooted in a volunteer battalion formed by the leadership of a neo-Nazi group. But it is certain that Azov has depoliticised itself," said Anton Shekhovtsov, a Vienna-based Ukrainian expert on Russia's connections to Europe's far-right. "Its history linked to the far-right movement is pretty irrelevant today.
"formerly/with neo-nazi elements": Atkins, Ros (26 March 2022). "Ukraine war: Ros Atkins on... Putin's false 'Nazi' claims". BBC. Retrieved 12 April 2022. Adrien Nonjon (Institut National des Langues et Civilisations Orientales): "Azov opened its recruitment to the whole of Ukrainian society and eventually this radical core was drowned out by the mass of newcomers who joined the regiment because it was an elite unit". Ros Atkins (BBC): "Despite the evolving membership, questions about Neo-Nazi links remain... There is though no evidence such sentiment is widespread [in the regiment]"
Attributed: "formerly/has been accused": "Azov Regiment takes centre stage in Ukraine propaganda war". France 24. AFP. 25 March 2022. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Some call them war heroes, others neo-Nazis...In 2014 this battalion had indeed a far-right background, these were far-right racists that founded the battalion," said Andreas Umland at the Stockholm Centre for Eastern European Studies. 'But it had since become "de-ideologised"' and a regular fighting unit, he told AFP.
"with neo-nazi elements": Sommerlad, Joe (24 March 2022). "Who are Ukraine's neo-Nazi Azov Battalion?". The Independent. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Following its victories in Mariupol and Marinka in the summer of 2014, the battalion – known for wearing black fatigues, sporting Nazi tattoos and going into battle with swastikas drawn on its helmets – was officially absorbed into the Ukrainian National Guard in November of that year, soon becoming a regiment.
"with neo-nazi elements": "The Azov Battalion: How Putin built a false premise for a war against "Nazis" in Ukraine". www.cbsnews.com. CBS News. 22 March 2022. Retrieved 11 April 2022. "There are no Nazi battalions in Ukraine," said Ruslan Leviev, an analyst with the Conflict Intelligence Team, which tracks the Russian military in Ukraine. "There is [the Azov] regiment... There are [estimated] several thousand people who are in this regiment. It is indeed a group where many members adhere to nationalist and far-right views," Leviev said. "But a lot of people also join it because it is one of the most prepared and fit-for-war units."...The Azov Battalion stepped in [in 2014]. It was better-equipped and prepared to do much of the frontline fighting against the separatists. The unit has its roots in aggressive fan clubs that support regional soccer teams, known as "ultras," but as the fighting ramped up, they attracted various far-right activists, who often made no secret of their neo-Nazi sympathies. The militia was founded by Andriy Biletsky, an ultra-nationalist political figure who previously led groups including the openly neo-Nazi Social-National Assembly (SNA), which preached an ideology of racial purity for Ukraine.
"neo-nazi": Ali, Taz (19 March 2022). "Ukraine could follow Afghanistan into years of turmoil as West adopts 'mujahideen model' with weapons". i News. Retrieved 14 April 2022. The Ukrainian National Guard, part of the country's Ministry of Internal Affairs, was formed in 2014 to incorporate paramilitary and volunteer batallions to fight against pro-Russian seperatists in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine. Among them was the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion.
"with neo-nazi elements": Goncharenko, Roman (16 March 2022). "The Azov Battalion: Extremists defending Mariupol". Deutsche Welle. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Umland said a legend had grown around Azov because of Russian propaganda. He said that volunteer fighters, including Azov, had been accused of looting and improper behavior in 2014..."Normally, we consider right-wing extremism to be dangerous, something that can lead to war," Umland said. But in Ukraine, it is the other way around, he argued. The war had led to the rise and transformation of marginal comradeships into a political movement. But their influence on society is overrated, he said. For most Ukrainians, they are combatants fighting an overbearing aggressor.
"with neo-nazi elements": Benjakob, Omer (14 March 2022). "Russia's War on Truth: Top Wikipedia Editor Arrested Amidst Ukraine Censorship". Haaretz. Retrieved 17 April 2022. Though Putin's bogus claims of "denazifying" Ukraine were called out, in English, the article on the contemporary far-right neo-Nazi Ukrainian paramilitary group, known as the Azov Battalion, has become a battleground, with some attempts to whitewash the group and deny their use of a Nazi symbol and neo-Nazi sentiments
Attributed: "formerly": Paulik, Jakub (14 March 2022). "Azov Battalion, saluting fighters and purging of radicals. We can't compare their current state with the past, analysts say". Refresher (In Czech). Retrieved 13 April 2022. They made no secret of their inclination to Nazism...According to analyst Michal Lebduška, however, Azov has since been greatly cleansed of radicals, and even in 2014 neo-Nazis were only in the minority. "It is true that this battalion was considered problematic in the past because it also originated from the ranks of nationalists and Nazis. However, not all members were radicals and formed a significant minority from the beginning. Over time, volunteer units were integrated into the Ukrainian Army or the National Guard of Ukraine...By the time they were included in these parallel structures, they had more or less purged them of radicals. To a large extent, they have disappeared from these units," Lebduška, who specializes in security, social and political developments in Ukraine, told Refresher. Security analyst Vladimír Bednár has the same attitude to the matter. "There is a big difference between Azov in 2014 and now... There was a significant cleansing. People associated with neo-Nazi ideology had to leave Azov after integration into the National Guard. Therefore, the current Azov cannot be associated with this from 2014 at all. It has the same name, but it must be seen as two separate things," he told us.
"neo-nazi": Smith, Adam (11 March 2022). "Russia moves to ban Instagram and calls Meta 'extremists'". The Independent. Retrieved 26 April 2022. Controversially, however, these "temporary measures" also allowed for praise of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, which has admitted to recruiting neo-Nazis and is currently being armed in the fight against Russia.
"neo-nazi": Brown, Larisa (10 March 2022). "Russian commander 'killed' as convoy caught in Ukrainian ambush". The Times. Retrieved 26 April 2022. The Ukrainians were understood to be from the neo-Nazi Azov regiment, which has been expanded to become part of Ukraine's armed forces.
"neo-nazi": "Russia, Ukraine and the spectre of 1941". Financial Times. 10 March 2022. Retrieved 26 April 2022. Neo-Nazis joined Ukraine's Euromaidan protest movement of 2014, and the neo-Nazi Azov battalion has fought Russia since the Donbas.
"with neo-nazi elements": Benjamin, Medea; Davies, Nicolas J.S. (10 March 2022). "Are there really neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine? Well, yes". Salon. Retrieved 14 April 2022. Despite Svoboda's declining success in national elections, neo-Nazi and extreme nationalist groups, increasingly linked to the Azov Battalion, have maintained power on the street in Ukraine, and in local politics in the Ukrainian nationalist heartland around Lviv in western Ukraine.
"formerly": "Did the infamous Azov Battalion inspire Putin's 'denazification' claim?". The Jerusalem Post. 5 March 2022. Retrieved 11 April 2022. The battalion has been a bastion of neo-Nazis and extreme right-wing figures...However, since its incorporation into Ukraine's official armed forces it has moved away from neo-Nazism, and a Ukrainian Jewish group as early as 2016 did not oppose lifting the US ban.
"with neo-nazi elements": "Profile: Who are Ukraine's far-right Azov regiment?". Al Jazeera. 1 March 2022. a Ukrainian far-right military regiment is back in the headlines [...] Azov is a far-right all-volunteer infantry military unit whose members – estimated at 900 – are ultra-nationalists [...] hardcore far-right ultra-nationalism is pervasive among members [...] the unit carried out pogroms against the Roma community and attacked members of the LGBTQ community.
"with neo-nazi elements": Farrukh, Rimal (1 March 2022). "Ukraine's 'Neo-Nazi' Battalion Is Greasing Bullets in Pig Fat for Russia's Muslim Soldiers". www.vice.com. Vice News. Retrieved 11 April 2022. The Azov Battalion is an ultranationalist volunteer arm of the National Guard of Ukraine that was formally infused into its ranks after it fought against pro-Russian separatists in 2014. The battalion has been accused of espousing neo-Nazi beliefs and reportedly continues to bear Wolfsangel insignia, used by Nazi units during World War II.
Attributed: "neo-nazi": Dearden, Lizzie (27 February 2022). "British volunteers who travel to fight in Ukraine could violate terror laws". The Independent. Retrieved 26 April 2022. Quoting Jonathan Hall QC: "But there is always the possibility of less desirable cases at the edges - individuals who travel to Ukraine under false pretence either to support Russia or fight with an ideological group such as the neo-Nazi Azov battalion."
"with neo-nazi elements": Hume, Tim (24 February 2022). "Why Vladimir Putin Trotted Out a 'Nazi' Smear to Justify Invading Ukraine". VICE. Retrieved 20 May 2022. Azov – which features the Nazi Wolfsangel logo on its uniforms, is led by figures with deep roots in the country's neo-Nazi scene, and attracted right-wing extremist foreign fighters into its ranks from across the world – was formally incorporated into Ukraine's National Guard in late 2014, bringing its extremists onto the government payroll.
"neo-nazi": Biddle, Sam (24 February 2022). "Facebook Allows Praise of Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Battalion If It Fights Russian Invasion". The Intercept. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Facebook will temporarily allow its billions of users to praise the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi military unit previously banned from being freely discussed under the company's Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, The Intercept has learned.
Attributed:"with neo-nazi elements"/"formerly?": "Mariupol's outnumbered defenders refuse to give in". The Economist. 15 April 2022. Retrieved 15 April 2022. Whether the group is still extremist is another question. Azov was incorporated into the National Guard and army structure in 2015. Since then, it has been through a process of professionalisation, with far-right extremists, symbols and ideologies largely filtered out. Michael Colborne, an investigative journalist, author of a forthcoming book on Azov and a longtime critic of the movement, says the process was never completed.
2021
Attributed: "neo-nazi": Bogdana, Alexandrowskaja; Stork, Anna (5 December 2021). "Belarus torture survivors take legal action in Germany". Deutsche Welle. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Because of the T-shirt, Belarus police accused him of sympathizing with the Azov Battalion, a neo-Nazi volunteer regiment fighting in eastern Ukraine. The group's logo, however, does not actually feature a skull.Note: some users participating in an RSN discussion do not consider this source reliable.
"neo-nazi": McKenzie, Nick; Tozer, Joel (22 August 2021). "ADF at risk of neo-Nazi infiltration after ex-soldiers passport cancelled". The Age. Retrieved 13 May 2022. In January 2020, Foreign Minister Marise Payne cancelled Mr Sretenovic's passport on the basis he was preparing to fight with the notoriously neo-Nazi Azov Battalion in Ukraine.
"with neo-nazi elements": "'Disinformation efforts' to discredit Belarus activist". France 24/AFP. 9 June 2021. Retrieved 25 April 2022. ...the Azov battalion, some of whose soldiers have been known to harbour white supremacist and neo-Nazi views.
"with neo-nazi elements": Wesolowsky, Tony (9 June 2021). "Jailed Belarusian Pratasevich Dogged By Claims He Fought For Azov Battalion In Ukraine". Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. Retrieved 25 April 2022. ...the Azov Battalion, a nationalist force with neo-Nazi roots that has played a prominent role in the conflict that erupted as Kremlin-backed separatists seized parts of the Donbas in 2014... "Though it is true that its leaders are known for far-right beliefs and the broader Azov movement is in touch with the foreign far-right, there is no evidence that every single person [involved] shares neo-Nazi beliefs," [Hanna Hrystenko, a Kyiv-based researcher of the far right] wrote.
"with neo-nazi elements": Hume, Tim; McLoughlin, Louise; Bennett, Tom (14 May 2021). "How a War on the Edge of Europe Became a Training Ground for the Far-Right". VICE News. Retrieved 21 April 2022. While Azov has publicly sought to downplay its extremist elements, its radical politics are undeniable. Many of its members openly espouse white supremacist ideology; some sport neo-Nazi tattoos. [...] the Azov ecosystem has helped to sustain a flourishing far-right underground in Ukraine. Azov-affiliated extremists run neo-Nazi music festivals, clothing lines, and MMA tournaments — while the group has continued to actively network and court support from far-right radicals worldwide.
"with neo-nazi elements": Biermann, Kai; Fuchs, Christian; Geisler, Astrid; Musharbash, Yassin; Stark, Holger (11 February 2021). "Fascism: The Brown Internationale". Die Zeit. Retrieved 27 May 2022. Using WhatsApp, Oberhuber contacted a German neo-Nazi who he hoped could bring him to the front. The German turned out to be a functionary with the Misanthropic Division, which recruited fighters for the Azov Battalion in Ukraine from almost 20 countries. [...] Other former right-wing extremists told DIE ZEIT of neo-Nazis who joined the Azov Battalion primarily to receive weapons training.
"with neo-nazi elements": Ragozin, Leonid; Skibitskaya, Yuliana (9 January 2021). "Telegram has a Nazi problem". Rest of World. Retrieved 28 April 2022. Far-right activists were among the first to form combat-ready units...The most prominent of these volunteer groups was the so-called Azov battalion, which later became an autonomous regiment under the auspices of Ukraine's National Guard. From that, a number of political, veteran, and paramilitary organizations emerged, which members now refer to as the Azov movement.
"neo-nazi": Katz, Rita (9 July 2020). "Neo-Nazis Are Running Out of Places to Hide Online". Wired. Retrieved 11 April 2022. The group maintains ties to organizations like Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi paramilitary group, and Atomwaffen Division, a US-based neo-Nazi paramilitary group that is now largely defunct.Note: at least one user considers this source unreliable for this claim: [11]
2019
"with neo-nazi elements": Parafianowicz, Zbigniew (15 November 2019). "Azow to realny problem. Neonazistowski pułk opłaca ukraińskie wojsko, policję i ministerstwa". www.gazetaprawna.pl (in Polish). Dziennik Gazeta Prawna. Retrieved 11 April 2022. A campaign to defend Azov's good name has been going on for several weeks in Ukraine. It is bound by the slogan "Defense of the fatherland is not terrorism", and it is attended by activists from far-right, neo-Nazi organizations, as well as mainstream politicians and high-ranking officials.
"neo-nazi": Golinkin, Lev (2019-08-13). "The world needs to take the white supremacy threat seriously". CNN. Retrieved 2022-04-27. Indeed, last October, the FBI arrested members of the white supremacist Rise Above Movement who had allegedly attended events hosted by Ukraine's neo-Nazi Azov organization. By now, numerous Western journalists have chronicled Azov's crusade to turn Ukraine into a hub of international white supremacy.
"with neo-nazi elements": Hume, Tom (31 July 2019). "Far-Right Extremists Have Been Using Ukraine's War as a Training Ground. They're Returning Home". VICE News. Retrieved 21 April 2022. signed up to fight with the Azov Battalion, a newly formed far-right militia with deep neo-Nazi ties [...] Azov, in particular, has produced ISIS-like propaganda videos, distributed pamphlets at neo-Nazi concerts in Western Europe, and sent speakers to far-right conferences in Scandinavia. Though the group denies it is neo-Nazi, and publicly stated in 2014 that "only 10 to 20 percent" of its forces identified as neo-Nazis, its first commander and now leader of its political wing has a history in neo-Nazi groups. Their recruitment efforts have targeted far-right networks [...] Joachim Furholm, a Norwegian neo-Nazi and recruiter for Azov, used an interview with a U.S. white nationalist outlet last year to encourage U.S. extremists to join him. [...] Through the influence of Azov, in particular, Ukraine has increasingly played just such a role, emerging as a key hub in a transnational extreme-right network.
"neo-nazi": "Ukraine Jews anxious despite Jewish PM, president". Jerusalem Post. 2019-05-10. Retrieved 2022-04-27. Examples include the presence of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion within the Ukrainian National Guard, which has been accused of war crimes during the conflict in the east and sanctioned by the US Congress for its ultranationalist and white supremacist ties.
Attributed: "neo-nazi": Bucci, Nino (22 April 2019). "Government can't stop five fighters returning to Australia from far-right conflict". ABC News. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Five Australians travelled to fight alongside Russian-backed nationalist militia in Ukraine, according to intelligence provided to the Australian Federal Police, raising concerns the group has been exposed to combat experience that could threaten Australia's national security.
"neo-nazi": Golinkin, Lev (22 February 2019). "Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine". The Nation. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Post-Maidan Ukraine is the world's only nation to have a neo-Nazi formation in its armed forces. The Azov Battalion was initially formed out of the neo-Nazi gang Patriot of Ukraine. Andriy Biletsky, the gang's leader who became Azov's commander, once wrote that Ukraine's mission is to "lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade…against the Semite-led Untermenschen." Biletsky is now a deputy in Ukraine's parliament.
2018
"with neo-nazi elements": Brown, John (9 July 2018). "Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine". Haaretz. Retrieved 25 April 2022. The Azov militia was established in Ukraine following the Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula in 2014. The militia's emblems are well-known national socialist ones. Its members use the Nazi salute and carry swastikas and SS insignias. Moreover, some of them openly admit they have neo-Nazi sentiments and that they are Holocaust deniers.
"with neo-nazi elements": Bennetts, Marc (13 March 2018). "Ukraine's National Militia: 'We're not neo-Nazis, we just want to make our country better'". The Guardian. Retrieved 21 April 2022. They are members of the National Militia, an ultranationalist organisation closely linked to Ukraine's Azov movement, a far-right group with a military wing that contains openly neo-Nazi members, and its political spin-off, the National Corpus party.
Attributed: "neo-nazi": Rawlinson, Kevin (2 March 2018). "Neo-Nazi groups recruit Britons to fight in Ukraine". the Guardian. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Neo-Nazi groups involved in the fighting in Ukraine are actively seeking to recruit British far-right activists, a leading anti-fascist watchdog has warned....According to Hope Not Hate, a group named the Misanthropic Division, which is linked to the Azov battalion, is working with representatives of UK-based far-right groups...to recruit activists to travel to Ukraine.
2017
"has been accused": "По ту сторону «Азова». Чем занимается в тылу самый известный полк Нацгвардии - ФОКУС". ФОКУС (in Russian). 2017-08-04. Retrieved 2022-05-20. In the media, Azov is often accused of adherence to far-right ideology, since the unit was created by right-wing activist Andriy Biletsky and his associates from the nationalist organizations Patriot of Ukraine and the Social-National Assembly. In addition, the design of the regiment actively uses symbols associated with the far-right movement. On the chevrons, against the background of the Black Sun symbol, an anagram of the letters N and I, the idea of a nation, is depicted. The anagram looks like a mirrored "wolf hook", the symbol of one of the divisions of the Nazi army, and according to UEFA rules, the "Black Sun" is forbidden to be used in football stadiums, since it is a neo-Nazi sign. In the regiment itself, accusations of cultivating a right-wing radical ideology are denied, they say, they have their own ideology, Azov, and the fighters are united by loyalty to Ukraine. "We have people who before the war considered themselves leftists, considered themselves rightists, but everyone reads the Prayer of a Ukrainian Nationalist."... Many wear clothes of special brands used in the right environment - Svastone, Thor Steinar. A former battalion fighter explains that most often these are elements of a subculture that are used more for shocking than for demonstrating a serious commitment to the ideas of Nazism: " Right-wing tattoos are a subculture, a protest against the existing value system, which does not carry anything like that, more for fun."...{{cite web}}: zero width space character in |quote= at position 460 (help)
"formerly": Mironova, Vera; Sergatskova, Ekaterina (1 August 2017). "How Ukraine Reined In Its Militias". Foreign Affairs. Retrieved 12 April 2022. After the union, the government's first act was to root out two groups within Azov, foreign fighters and neo-Nazis, by vetting group members with background checks, observations during training, and a law requiring all fighters to accept Ukrainian citizenship. Fighters who did not pass this screening were offered the chance to join civilian volunteer corps to help the war effort; these corps assisted police, cleared snow (a crucial task in Ukraine), and even worked on a public radio.
Attributed: "not neo-nazi": Boichenko, Nina (2017). "Inside Ukraine's ideological renewal". New Eastern Europe. 28 (05): 70–75. ISSN2083-7372. Retrieved 12 April 2022. As I arrived, I saw a young man in a library and I told him there are rumours that they are neo-Nazis and that I do not want to believe it, but I came to ask", she says. "'No', the young man replied, 'we are nationalists, we have nothing against other nationalities and ethnic minorities, check the books – there is no Mein Kampf here.'" Indeed, there was not.
2016
"has been accused" / Attributed: "neo-nazi"/Attributed: "says not neo-nazi": Sokol, Sam (18 January 2016). "US lifts ban on funding 'neo-Nazi' Ukrainian militia". Jerusalem Post. Retrieved 13 May 2022. Called a "neo-Nazi paramilitary militia" by Congressmen John Conyers Jr. and Ted Yoho, who cosponsored the bipartisan amendment, the battalion has been a source of controversy since its inception....Not everyone was so upset, however, with the Vaad of Ukraine, a Jewish communal body comprising a number of different organizations and known for its nationalist stance on many issues, coming out in favor of the move. "I appreciate this decision. It must be clearly understood: there is no kind of 'neo-Nazi Ukrainian militia' now. Azov is a regular military unit subordinate to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. It is not irregular division neither a political group. Its commanders and fighters might have personal political views as individuals, but as an armed police unit Azov is a part of the system of the Ukrainian defense forces," said anti-Semitism researcher Vyacheslav A. Likhachev, speaking on behalf of the Vaad.
"with neo-nazi elements": Allen, Christopher (13 August 2015). "European volunteers fighting in Eastern Ukraine". Al Jazeera. Retrieved 13 May 2022. But others, including Mikael Skillt, the Swedish soldier who arrived in Ukraine during the protests on Maidan last February, came to fight for nationalism and their ultra-conservative political ideals regarding Ukraine. Andriy Biletsky, leader of two organisations, Social-National Assembly and the Patriot of Ukraine, is the founder of the Azov Regiment as a politically conservative paramilitary group. The political ideology of Azov has been softened as the battalion grew into a regiment and Biletsky entered the Ukrainian parliament, but many of the Europeans who came in the early stages of the conflict came to fight for their conservative political values. But, while the political fight is important, it is not the only thing that has brought these men here. Once on the front line, the war is less about advocating for political ideals than it is about fighting...These men are driven to the war for the experience of combat. Their politics evolved through their engagement in the conflict.
"neo-nazi": Kramer, Andrew E. (7 July 2015). "Islamic Battalions, Stocked With Chechens, Aid Ukraine in War With Rebels". The New York Times. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Another, the Azov group, is openly neo-Nazi, using the "Wolf's Hook" symbol associated with the SS. Without addressing the issue of the Nazi symbol, the Chechen said he got along well with the nationalists because, like him, they love their homeland and hate the Russians.
"neo-nazi/with neo-nazi elements": News, Postmedia (17 June 2015). "Fears that Canadian training mission in Ukraine may unintentionally help neo-Nazis groups". National Post. Retrieved 11 April 2022. U.S. lawmakers have voted to block American troops from training a unit with neo-Nazi members that's operating with Ukraine's forces — a move that raises questions about what safeguards Canada has to ensure it doesn't help extremist groups...The unit has continued to face accusations of neo-Nazi links.{{cite news}}: |last1= has generic name (help)
"with neo-nazi elements": Vickery, Matthew; Khalel, Sheren (15 April 2015). "'Christian Taliban's' crusade on Ukraine's front lines". Al Jazeera. Retrieved 11 April 2022. Serediuk originally fought the separatists in the east as part of the Azov Battalion – a notorious far-right Ukrainian militia organised by the neo-Nazi Social-National party. Serediuk didn't leave the Azov because of the neo-Nazi connections, however – extreme-right ideology doesn't bother him. What does irk him, however, is being around fighters who are not zealous in their religious convictions.
Attributed: "says not neo-nazi"/with neo-nazi elements": "Azov Battalion Is Not Neo-Nazi, But Some People In Battalion Are - Umland". Hromadske. 19 January 2015. Retrieved 13 May 2022. Andreas Umland (in video): The battalion...is not neo nazi...but a few people who did build up the battalion were or are biological racists. In article: The Azov volunteer battalion has now been integrated into Ukraine's National Guard, but some of the biological racists that were originally in the battalion still remain, said Andreas Umland, a Senior Research Fellow at the Institute for Euro-Atlantic Cooperation. However, these racists with neo-Nazi views are a minority within the Azov battalion. The role of neo-Nazis in volunteer battalions has been blown way out of proportion in the media and has given the erroneous impression that all of Ukraine's volunteer battalions are populated with neo-Nazis, said Umland.
Discussion of Journalism sources, quotations, and assessments
This is an excellent list, and the chronological ordering adds considerable value.
I would move Branko Marcetic in The Jacobin to "Opinion-based editorials written by journalists". He is writing in an opinion website and has no relevant expertise. (RSP says There is a consensus that Jacobin is a generally reliable but biased source. Editors should take care to adhere to the neutral point of view policy when Some are extreme already, such as the neo-Nazi Azov battalion, which fights on the pro-Kiev side.using Jacobin as a source in articles, for example by quoting and attributing statements that present its authors' opinions, and ensuring that due weight is given to their perspective amongst others'.) Possibly also true of the two pieces in The Nation (RSP: Most editors consider The Nation a partisan source whose statements should be attributed. The publication's opinion pieces should be handled with the appropriate guideline. Take care to ensure that content from The Nation constitutes due weight in the article and conforms to the biographies of living persons policy.) Lev Golinkin's piece is opinion, but I would say his opinion is noteworthy as he is an expert on Ukraine. Carden's piece is more newsy, but highly partisan and there's no reason to think he has any relevant expertise. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:10, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fair, will move it to OpEd, because you're right it's clearly a biased source by RSP!— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 17:51, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would strike "Belarus torture survivors take legal action in Germany", which has been rejected by RSN, or at the very least add "attributed" as this is the opinion of the Belarus police. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:10, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Will add Attributed, and a link to the RSN discussion. If we get a consensus that we should remove the source entirely I'm happy to do that too.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 17:51, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think sources from 2014 and 2015 (e.g. Parfitt, Luhn) that are currently tagged red "neo-Nazi" are better tagged blue "formerly" as 2015 can't be source for present tense given other sources show clear changes. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:10, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I understand this criticism, but I would ask, in return, "Shouldn't we let users decide that for themselves?" My policy is almost always to lay as much as possible out in the open. And in this case, we have the year and timing right there in the source, listed right next to the author name. What if we added years to the list, as subheadings? Would that help? I don't want to define when we transition from "present" to "past" because it's clearly a spectrum, and each user would likely define it differently based on their own opinion of the group.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 17:58, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point. Let’s leave as is. The chronological arrangement does the work. BobFromBrockley (talk) 09:47, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thakur is an opinion piece by a journalist, so I’d move to that section. Katerji might be too, although his article includes primary reporting so I’d leave here. BobFromBrockley (talk) 09:47, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed about Thakur, The Features section is definitely an OpEds section as is most of that magazine. So I moved it to OpEd. But disagree about Katerji, I don't think it's opinion, I would consider it "analysis" which basically most of this section is along with basically all longform journalism. This is the kind of stuff that is less useful for questions like this, but basically all we have on both sides. Hard-hitting factual reporting tends to sidestep these issues or only give it passing mention.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 10:14, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
April BBC Source
This BBC source which I recently added: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61201548 was removed on the grounds that it "makes no mention of neo-nazi ideology", and my label of "formerly" was changed to "with neo-nazi elements" before that was done. In terms of removing it for "no mention of neo-nazi ideology", I don't think that is a reasonable grounds for removing it. There's no requirement that sources in this collection need to explicitly mention neo-nazi ideology, and whatever way that a source refers to the battalion is useful. It is referred to as "originally a far-right group" in the article. I think that far-right is certainly relevant to the question of neo-nazism, and that description is useful for seeing how the group is described in reliable sources. In terms of changing the label from "formerly" to "with neo-nazi elements", I'm more sympathetic to that interpretation. However, the wording in the article does almost exactly match the definition of "formerly". Saying that someone "was originally something" is almost exactly what formerly means. Formerly is defined as "in the past, earlier times"--Tristario (talk) 06:14, 1 May 2022 (UTC) — Tristario (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
#1 This source review is to assist with an RfC regarding the usage of the specific term "neo-Nazi" in the lede. #2 This BBC source does not use this term so, while it may still be useful to this discussion, it is misleading to claim it as an example of how the term is applied to Azov (other than it not being used - for which there is no category.) #3 Look at the following sentence: "Microsoft was originally a privately-owned technology company before being taken public in 1986." Does this sentence support the claim that Microsoft is "formerly a software company"? Vladimir.copic (talk) 08:12, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
#1 This source review is "particularly focused on description of the group re: the "neo-nazi" question", and the rfc is not solely about whether Azov is neo-nazi or not, but how it should be described generally. This source is relevant for those things. #2 I agree that none of the labels fit the description of this article perfectly, however that applies to many of the other sources used here too. That isn't a good enough reason not to include them. And, there is actually a label for "does not mention"- this one: "Does not mention". #3 That doesn't support the claim that Microsoft is formerly a software company, but it certainly does support that it's formerly a "privately owned software company". I agree that formerly isn't a perfect description for how BBC refers to azov here, but it's the closest there is. If you required a stringent enough application of the categories that would just mean the exclusion of many relevant and useful sources.
I think that the concerns that you have about the labelling of this source are legitimate. So I would like the propose that the source be included, with the relevant quote, and either be labelled with ""Does not mention"" or ""with neo-nazi elements"", whichever you prefer. Perhaps if others disagree with the labelling they could give their thoughts too.--Tristario (talk) 08:44, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"neo-nazi": Galen Carpenter, Ted (17 May 2022). "The News Media's Ukraine Whitewash Grows Worse". Cato Institute. Retrieved 20 May 2022. The Azov battalion was notorious for years before the Russian invasion as a bastion of extreme nationalists and outright Nazis. That aspect proved to be more than just a source of embarrassment for Ukraine's supporters when the unit became a crucial player in the battle for the city of Mariupol. [...] However, the coverage of the Ukraine war threatens to achieve a new low in media integrity and credibility. When the establishment press whitewashes the behavior of outright neo‐Nazis, something is terribly amiss.Note: some users question this author's scholarly credibility
"formerly": Gomza, Ivan (April 2022). "Too Much Ado About Ukrainian Nationalists: the Azov Movement and the War in Ukraine". Krytyka. Retrieved 23 April 2022. It is certainly true that Azov was an ultra-nationalist and even neo-Nazi organization at its founding." and "However, like any militant and social movement, it has evolved beyond its origins." and " The best sign of Azov's pro-democratic evolution is, ..." and "It is the first step, and many more should follow, including those to understand why pundits spent efforts speculating about Azov instead of warning about a real fascist threat.Note: some users do not consider this to argue that Azov is "formerly neo-nazi."[12]
"formerly": Ritzmann, Alexander (12 April 2022). "The myth far-right zealots run Ukraine is Russian propaganda". Euronews. Retrieved 23 April 2022. ... the Azov regiment, a former Nazi-insignia-carrying extreme-right street militia that has become integrated into Ukraine National Guard." and "However, the Azov regiment that is fighting against Russian invaders in Mariupol literally today, is something completely different." and "The extremist leadership mostly left the regiment in 2015 and ...
"formerly": Shekhovtsov, Anton (2 April 2022). "How the West enabled genocide in Mariupol with its misguided Azov obsession". Euromaidan Press. Retrieved 29 April 2022. Figures for the National Corps and other Ukrainian far-right parties in public opinion polls were devastatingly low. The National Corps kept on referring to Azov as its affiliated organization, and naïve Western journalists and experts took all that bluster at face value instead of realizing that Azov was not a political organization and that its command structure was completely separate from the National Corps.
"neo-nazi": Pratt, Simon Frankel; LaRoche, Christopher David (29 March 2022). "Ukraine's Refugees Are Close Enough for European Solidarity". Foreign Policy. Retrieved 13 May 2022. Minority media narratives focusing on the activities of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion participating in Ukraine's defense have not generated broader fears that Ukrainian refugee flows harbor potential terrorist elements or that weapons sent to Ukraine will eventually be turned against European communities—fears that stoked suspicion of Syrian refugees fleeing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, the Islamic State, and indeed Russia.
2019
"says not neo-nazi" / "with neo-nazi elements": Ben, Bohdan (11 April 2019). "Is the Azov Battalion a terrorist organization as 40 US House Democrats claim?". Euromaidan Press. Retrieved 13 May 2022. Regarding the inclusion of neo-Nazis, it's important to mention that Azov, as well as other regiments of Ukraine's Armed Forces and National Guard has no selection by ideological criteria. A battalion of the National Guard of Ukraine can't have any ideology or favor right or left-wing activists or liberals to be enrolled. Ihor Lutsenko, former member of the Azov Battalion and Ukrainian parliament, told Euromaidan Press that he met people having various ideological opinions among the personnel of the detachment and that it's a private matter for each volunteer. The issue of ideology was not important for Azov when they "were doing real practical things." ...To sum up, Azov's personnel indeed includes an above-average number of right-wingers, but does not entirely consist from them. However, the battalion doesn't force following any ideology and a person holding any views can join it. Azov never called for violence or radicalism, although in 2014-2015 it was implicated in war crimes...
Discussion of ScholarOpEd sources, quotations, and assessments
Krytyka source - does it argue Azov is formerly neo-Nazi
I am not sure that Gozma's piece in Krytyka really supports the view that Azov is formerly neo-Nazi. Instead, he argues that Azov has "evolved beyond its origins', undergone a "pro-democratic evolution" and "moderated their ideological fervor or modified it altogether". There is no explicit argument that Azov is no longer a neo-nazi but that they are different in some way to when they started. What that difference is is not elucidated very clearly apart from allusions to things like democracy and animal rights - neither of which preclude an organisation from nazism. The piece does give support to the idea that Azov was founded as a neo-Nazi organisation. Vladimir.copic (talk) 23:49, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Authoritarianism, or even totalitarianism, are pretty important parts of nazi ideology, and fascism in general. "Pro-democratic evolution" is pretty much exact opposite to what nazism stands for.--Staberinde (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Might be better to file this as had neo-Nazi elements in the past as it is clear that Azov was already ideologically diverse and only included neo-Nazi elements to start with. He talks about a mix of apolitical football hooligans, anti-liberal counterculturalists who flirted with "recognizable Nazi paraphernalia", and anti-Nazi Ukrainian nationalists. He cites the 10-20% Nazi figure to be clear that the majority were not neo-Nazi in the past. He explicitly says that the claim that it is still neo-Nazi are not "well-grounded". It's true he doesn't give a neat answer to how to characterise Azov today, but it's clear that he sees it as pro-democratic and turning moderate, which means it might still be on the further right but definitely isn't neo-Nazi. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:21, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cato Institute
I question whether Ted Galen Carpenter of the Cato Institute thinktank should be included in this section, as not a scholar or scientist. I'd even question if it should feature in this source review as per RSP there is no consensus on whether Cato has any reliability for anything other than the opinions of its authors. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:12, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Attributed: "neo-nazi": Thakur, Ramesh (16 April 2022). "Game of empires". The Spectator Australia. Retrieved 14 April 2022. After the 2014 coup, the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion – that's a Daily Beast label from 2019 – was incorporated into President Petro Poroshenko's military and security apparatus and has remained there.
"neo-nazi: "Wyborcza.pl". wyborcza.pl (in Polish). 14 April 2022. Retrieved 21 April 2022. Per The Times of Israel, " One of Poland’s most prominent journalists, Konstanty Gebert, said he is quitting what many regard as the country’s newspaper of record after it demanded that he describe Ukraine’s controversial Azov Battalion as “far-right” instead of “neo Nazi.” This is his op-ed explaining his decision.
"neo-nazi/with neo-nazi elements": Marcetic, Branko (7 April 2022). "Whitewashing Nazis Doesn't Help Ukraine". Jacobin. Retrieved 11 April 2022. the neo-Nazi Azov Regiment that was officially incorporated into Ukraine's National Guard in 2014 [...] it's hard to play down the regiment's neo-Nazi tendencies when it continues to flaunt far-right symbols and carried out a pogrom against local Roma as late as 2018. [...] In fact, he's not just involved but instrumental. In a 2019 interview with UMN (Ukrainian Media Network), the Azov Regiment's chief of staff responded to a question about why Azov was so well supplied and looked better than other parts of the National Guard: "We have a leader, Andriy Biletsky, an independent MP in the Verkhovna Rada [Ukrainian parliament]. On top of being an MP, he is always visiting us at the shooting range encampment, for example. [...] Andriy, unlike others, isn't preoccupied with his own business but is always visiting, always helping us." Here's Biletsky at the Azov Regiment's fourth anniversary celebration, standing with Prokopenko in front of Azov's modified Wolfsangel, the ancient medieval rune famously adopted as a symbol by the Nazi SS. Azov insists with an implied wink that that the figure is merely a combination of the letters "N" and "I," for "the idea of the nation."
"formerly": Young, Cathy (4 April 2022). "The Bucha Atrocities and the Kremlin Apologists". The Bulwark. Retrieved 13 April 2022. While Azov has a shady history—it started out as a volunteer battalion with ties both to neo-Nazis and to Jewish billionaire and politician Ihor Kolomoyskyy—most experts believe its current incarnation is not extremist.
"neo-nazi": Miller-Idriss, Cynthia (27 March 2022). "How Russia spurred Ukraine's global neo-Nazi recruitment". MSNBC News. Retrieved 25 April 2022. Ukraine's embrace and normalization of the neo-Nazi pro-state militia Azov Battalion has created a global problem.
Attributed: "formerly": Nycz, Maciej (18 March 2022). "Facts and myths about the Azov regiment. "Making them a 'Death Star' is a big exaggeration"". RMF24 (In Polish). Retrieved 12 April 2022. I have the impression that the regiment is being blamed for the far-right actions of the Azov Movement and the National Corps party, and the links between them, this umbilical cord, have long been cut off to a large extent. This does not prevent the Russians from heating up this topic and saying that this is some great socio-political movement that has its militia in the form of this regiment. This is not the case. No one in Kiev, no politruk, no fascist, No Ukrainian nationalist or anyone is giving orders to this regiment. It is in normal command structures" - Dr. Kacper Rękawek from the Center for Research on Extremism at the University of Oslo.
"neo-nazi": Katz, Rita (14 March 2022). "Perspective Neo-Nazis are exploiting Russia's war in Ukraine for their own purposes". Washington Post. Rita Katz is the executive director of the SITE Intelligence Group and a terrorism analyst. [...] recruited by groups like the Azov Battalion, a far-right nationalist Ukrainian paramilitary and political movement. [...] It has openly welcomed Westerners into its ranks via white-supremacist sites. [...] Neo-Nazi chat groups and channels in various languages have echoed Azov's calls.
"neo-nazi": Machanick, Philip (7 March 2022). "Russia has a fascism problem and it's not Ukraine". The Mail & Guardian. Retrieved 26 April 2022. More seriously, the neo-Nazi Azov regiment, formed to fight separatists, was integrated into the National Guard by former president Petro Poroshenko in 2018.
2021
"with neo-nazi elements": Colbourne, Michael (2 June 2021). "Why Designating the Azov Movement as an FTO Is Ineffective". Fair Observer. Retrieved 28 April 2022. The accurate descriptor would, of course, be the "Azov Movement." I've described the Azov Movement, which grew out of the original battalion and regiment, as a heterogenous radical-right social movement. At its core, the movement encompasses the regiment itself, the National Corps political party, the Centuria (formerly the National Militia) paramilitary organization as well as a number of affiliated subgroups and initiatives including a book club, youth camps, a "leadership school" and a (temporarily closed) three-story social center just off Kyiv's central Independence Square.
2014
"neo-nazi": Karatnycky, Adrian (2014-12-30). "Warlords and Armed Groups Threaten Ukraine's Rebuilding". The Washington Post. Retrieved 2022-04-27. Amazingly, in September he even named a leader of the neo-Nazi Azov brigade to head the police in the Kiev region.
"neo-nazi": "Look far right, and look right again". Euro Maidan Press. 11 July 2014. Retrieved 11 April 2022. The Division considers that, rather than liberating Eastern Ukraine from illiberal and undemocratic (pro-)Russia separatists, their 'black squadrons are fighting in the ranks of the pagan battalion Azov against the residues of modern society represented by khachi [racist slur for natives of the Caucasus region], chavs, communists, liberals, Asians and other Untermenschen.'
Discussion of JournalismOpEd sources, quotations, and assessments
Keep in mind, these are primary sources and thus should be used with caution! This section was last edited (diff) on 30 April 2024 at 15:39 by PrimeBOT (talk • contribs • logs)
2022
"formerly": Lykhachov, Vyacheslav (3 April 2022). "Euromaidan SOS: honest answers to the most common questions about AZOV in the West". Center for Civil Liberties. Retrieved 12 April 2022. So, the short answer to the question is no, Azov is not a neo-Nazi regiment....there are were individuals with neo-Nazi background and Far-Right views among Azov founders and fighters from the very beginning. However, not all the founders of the battalion had such a background. Among the first fighters of Azov, activists from the Automaidan groups, there were several ethnic Jews (and at least one Israeli citizen) even, for example. Most of the Far Right fighters left the regiment by the end of 2014. The rest of the Right Wing radicals, who clearly articulated their views, were deliberately "cleaned out" by the new commandment of the regiment in 2017. In recent years, there are absolutely no grounds for accusations that neo-Nazis serve in the Azov regiment.
2021
Attributed: "with neo-nazi elements": Weijenberg, Gijs; Zuijdewijn, Jeanine de Roy van (16 July 2021). "The Forgotten Front: Dutch Fighters in Ukraine". International Center for Counter-Terrorism. Retrieved 12 April 2022. Already in the autumn of 2014, The Guardian reported that a large group of Azov members would adhere to far-right or neo-Nazi ideas. They glorified Adolf Hitler's leadership, denied the Holocaust, and the battalion symbol showed the sonnenrad – a common symbol among neo-Nazis.
"with neo-nazi elements": Rekawek, Kacper (14 April 2021). "Don't Designate Azov. Why the U.S. should not include the Azov Movement on the Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTO) list". Counter Extremism Project. Retrieved 27 April 2022. Azov Movement is a multi-faceted entity which comprises not only the aforementioned Regiment, firmly within the command and control structures of the Ukrainian ministry of interior, but also a political party, a paramilitary arm, a charity wing, discussion club, etc., with its backers in the government in Kyiv....The Regiment's veterans have a track record of parading in rows, dressed in black, masked, with torches at political events. Most recently, its political outlet, the National Corps, organized paramilitary trainings for "representatives of veterans' and patriotic organizations, as well as owners of weapons" so that "the Ukrainian army, as well as every citizen of Ukraine […is] ready for any development."
2020
"with neo-nazi elements": Beirich, Heidi (12 November 2020). "The Transatlantic Connections Between American and Southeastern Europe's White Supremacists". Global Project Against Hate and Extremism. Retrieved 12 April 2022. The Azov Battalion's politics are infamous. The regiment has been accused of engaging in torture and war crimes and for using neo-Nazi symbology. Azov representatives claim this has nothing to do with Nazism, but in 2014 a spokesman for the regiment said 10 to 20 percent of the unit were neo-Nazis. Other reporting has documented members' neo-Nazi beliefs and widespread use of Nazi symbols, including the Wolfsangel and the Black Sun, by its adherents.
"with neo-nazi elements": Aliyev, Huseyn (12 November 2020). "Opportunities in Ukraine Too Limited to Provide White Supremacists With Military Training". Russia matters (Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs). Retrieved 29 April 2022. It is noteworthy that Saltskog and Clarke seem to brand all volunteer battalions as ultranationalist and white supremacist. However, only Azov, UNA-UNSO and DUK/UDA (Right Sector) espouse ultranationalist views. In fact, Azov's ideology is a mixture of old Slavic (pre-Christian/Nestorian) paganism and modern Ukrainian nationalism. The authors have also omitted the evidence that one of the founders and senior leaders of the Azov battalion, Natan Khazin, is a practicing Jew, which was presented in my original contribution to Russia Matters. Of course, all of the above evidence does not preclude that there are individuals in either Azov or in other ex-battalions with anti-Semitic views. However, individuals with anti-Semitic views were also present in the ranks of the U.S. Army, which cannot serve as evidence that it is a "hub for white supremacists."...While I have encountered individuals with neo-Nazi and far-right views, the majority of Azov's former and active members with whom I communicated had no clearly defined ideological background, apart from broader Ukrainian patriotic views.
"with neo-nazi elements": Kuzmenko, Oleksiy (19 March 2020). "The Azov Regiment has not depoliticized". Atlantic Council. Retrieved 11 April 2022. "The close alignment between the Azov Regiment and the National Corps continues under the Zelenskyy presidency. In March 2020, soldiers from the regiment were featured alongside leaders of the National Corps in a video ad for a rally meant as a warning to Zelenskyy’s government. Based on this evidence, it is clear that the Regiment has failed in its alleged attempts to “depoliticize." This makes it next to impossible to draw a clear line between the regiment itself and the wider Azov movement, including the National Corps."
"formerly": Shekhovtsov, Anton (24 February 2020). "Why Azov should not be designated a foreign terrorist organization". Atlantic Council. Retrieved 12 April 2022. But, while the ideologically inimical nature of Azov's roots is indisputable, it is likewise certain that Azov attempted to de-politicize itself; the toxic far-right leadership formally left the regiment and founded what would become a far-right party called "National Corps."
2019
"neo-nazi": OSCE - Human Dimension Implementation Meeting 2019 - Information Group on Crimes againts the Person (16 - 27 September 2019) "There is only one viewpoint on both «Azov» Regiment and the «National Corps» («Natzionalnyy Korpus») political party affiliated to it: they are neo-Nazis and racists, and any kind of cooperation with them is impossible." Here it is noted that the Azov regiment is still the armed wing of the National Corps political party and therefore has not been "depoliticized".
"with neo-nazi elements": Legieć, Arkadiusz (25 October 2019). "The Risks of Foreign Fighters in the Ukraine-Russia Conflict"(PDF). PISM Bulletin. (Polski Instytut Spraw Międzynarodowych). 1898 (150). Retrieved 12 April 2022. ...recruiting other fighters in Ukraine and abroad(e.g.,Azov Regiment recruited volunteers during neo-Nazi festivals in the UK and Germany)...At the same time, foreign fighters on the Ukrainian side have been the subject of Russian propaganda, especially the participation of neo-Nazis in the Azov Regiment or ISIS veterans in Tatar battalions.
Attributed:with neo-nazi elements": Jones, Seth G. (7 November 2018). "The Rise of Far-Right Extremism in the United States". www.csis.org. Center for Strategic and International Studies. Retrieved 11 April 2022. In Ukraine, RAM members met with groups like the Azov Battalion, a paramilitary unit of the Ukrainian National Guard, which the FBI says is associated with neo-Nazi ideology.
2015
"with neo-nazi elements": Puglisi, Rosaria (9 March 2015). "Heroes or Villains? Volunteer Battalions in Post-Maidan Ukraine". Istituto Affari Internazionali. Retrieved 13 April 2022. While Biletsky and the top leadership of the Azov are defined by experts as "biological racists," it is generally excluded that the whole battalion is aligned along the same ideological lines.
Discussion of Gov, Policy, OpEd sources, quotations, and assessments
Can we add a column to the table in "Source formatting key" that makes it clear when a source should - and should not - be given a label? e.g. when should a source be labeled ""with neo-nazi elements""? selfwormTalk) 16:33, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As this is a collective effort, and that is a very subjective measure, I would rather that we require each entry has a quotation justifying the label, and that we then cross-check entries editing out ones with poor justification. Each person who reads this should read the quotation and decide for themselves. Egregious offenders can be removed. — Shibbolethink(♔♕) 01:01, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
the group promotes Ukrainian nationalism and neo-Nazism
This source is already listed about and tagged "with neo-nazi elements", which I presume means "part of the group is composed of neo-nazis" (is this correct?). But this source doesn't merely say that the group has neo-Nazi members. It says that the group "promotes" "neo-Nazism". Neither the label "with neo-nazi elements" nor any of the other 5 labels fully captures this assertion, which I think is important enough that it should be clearly indicated whenever a source states it. And it isn't just this source that indicates this. I remember reading at least a couple others sources that indicate the same thing (although I've only inspected a handful of the 100+ sources listed). Should a new label be introduced for sources that state the group promotes neo-Nazism? selfwormTalk) 16:28, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"with neo-nazi elements" would also cover "has some aspects of neo-nazi ideology, but is not solely neo-nazi or even mostly neo-nazi" which would encompass "promotes neo-nazism but is not a straight-up neo-nazi organization" in my understanding. A corollary would be the Alt-right group The Proud Boys. There are proud boys who are neo-nazis. Some of the proud boys promote neo-nazism (such as Kyle Chapman). But they are not in essence a neo-nazi organization. They just have "neo-nazi elements" to their makeup. Similarly, none of these sources are saying "The entirety of the Azov Battalion promotes neo-nazism". Or at least, in context, I have not read any sources to justify that. — Shibbolethink(♔♕) 01:02, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly what Shibbolethink says is what I was about to say. Plus we need to use the categories in the RfC, otherwise it doesn't help that process. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:52, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Concerns about formatting and content
Cambial, instead of making the closer redo all the work done here collectively, why not propose amendments in the discussion section of each section and work towards making the colours fit better? BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:14, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of falsely trying to imply that I am imposing some burden upon the closers, why not simply give your view, rather than bludgeoning the RFC as others have pointed out. I’ve not made anyone "redo" anything, as you already know. The note is clear that voters and closers should concentrate on the source content, rather than any ambiguous and dubious coding scheme on which editors will disagree. If you believe editors/closers should pay less attention to what is written in the sources then, well, you're wrong and you may need to rethink your approach here. Cambial — foliar❧ 16:43, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Cambial Yellowing, If you are concerned, then add your comments to the subsections in the individual collapses, and we can come to a consensus about labels. It was inappropriate for you to add your comments to the template like that, instead, add your comments to the overall discussion section of the RFC or to the individual sections of the source review. But nothing makes your opinion more important than everybody else's. Replying to the source review directly puts your comment ahead of everyone else's in a way inconsistent with consensus building.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 23:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As I said in my comment, which does not posit any opinion about what the labels ought to be/how they should differ, readers should use their own judgement and not rely on the views of a far smaller contingent of editors than the more general RFC page attracted. Even if collectively edited, the "source review" is not an official or conclusive statement on the sources, yet it gives off that sense with its formatting. A reminder for people to read the sources is not controversial. Cambial — foliar❧ 05:50, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, this source review is a transcluded template. It is not part of the RFC. I also did not edit your comments, I moved them to the appropriate location (the discussion section for this template). You added your comments to the source review title, as though it were a discussion. It is not. It's akin to replying to my user page instead of its talk page. No one is saying that the source review is definitive. No one is saying that it is official or conclusive. You are interpreting it that way. It's a straw man that you're attacking. — Shibbolethink(♔♕) 17:56, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Cambial Yellowing, one of the things I think you're confused about here is that the closer should not even read or incorporate the source review. It is not part of the close, it should not be part of the close. It was only intended to assist discussion participants in their votes. The closer should be reviewing the discussion and its participants and their views, not the specific sources. Likewise, closers should not be taking sides on the content itself in other discussions, they are only here to summarize what participants think about the content. This is an important distinction which is also why closers cannot be involved. It gives a layer of protection to how discussions are closed. This is why the source review should not be part of the closing summary itself, only in how others have interpreted it. To do otherwise would constitute a !Supervote. — Shibbolethink(♔♕) 18:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
assist in this context is a value term. I’ve not attacked anything, but gave a different view to yours in which you present your framework as value neutral or settled. If you’re unwilling to have differing views respond to your comments, or feel the need to move responses to your important comments in a Request for Comments away from your own, this may not be the ideal website for you. Cambial — foliar❧ 19:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Again, you appear confused. This was not created as a comment in the RFC. It was added to the RFC many days later, after it had been created as a separate thing entirely.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 19:33, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It’s unfortunate that you’ve misread my comments in such a way that I appear confused to you, but I’ll live with it. As to your notion that the closer should be reviewing the discussion...not the specific sources. That’s not correct and would be absurd. The RFC is not a vote. See WP:DETCON and WP:NHC. Closer is asked to ascertain the quality of the arguments given on the various sides of an issue and to discard irrelevant arguments: those that flatly contradict established policy, those based on personal opinion only, those that are logically fallacious, and those that show no understanding. If ten people’s comment is something like “Source A and B say Jerry is a banana, so we should describe Jerry as a banana” and source A says Jerry might be a banana but is most likely an orange, and source B says Jerry is definitely an apple, that illogical reasoning or false premise will affect the weight given to their argument. So closers have to look at what sources or quotes from sources are referred to in comments. Obviously. Cambial — foliar❧ 05:42, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Cambial Yellowing: I never said RFCs were a vote. The exact passage you've cited about summarizing arguments is why I know that the closer should not be evaluating the content itself, but rather arguments about the content. They will look at how discussion participants have argued about the sources, not the sources themselves.— Shibbolethink(♔♕) 09:01, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
