Talk:As Slow as Possible

Longest piece? Nope

Guys, this is not the longest piece. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longplayer yet the article says it is the longest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Louigi Verona (talk • contribs) 10:07, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Church

The old instrument built in the middle ages was installed in the dome of halberstadt, not in the burchardi church. The Burchardi church gets used for the performance because it isn't used as a church anymore so it was available for such a long lasting piece of music :)

Currently

Surely wrong is the following sentence: »Currently the organ is playing a two-note chord, E below middle C and E above middle C (E3-E4), which began on July 5, 2004 and will conclude on May 5, 2006«. I've been at todays (20060105) pipe change party. There have been three pipes instead of the two mentioned above: Additionally there has been a g sharp above middle C (g#4). Today three further pipes have been added. And the change was today, not in Summer 2006 :) .

Sorry, I didn't edit the page by myself because my english is very poor :)

But why?!

There is nothing here about why this remarkable performance is being undertaken. That, to me, is of crucial interest. But I don't really know, so maybe someone else could elaborate? Thanks!

Why not? Does it need a reason?

I think one reason suggested was to connect between past, present and future. --njh 08:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

No, it doesn't need a reason, but there is one: something about celebrating things that take a long time -- too long for us to experience in a lifetime -- in a world where everything is about going faster. Or something. Has anyone read what Cage wrote about this? I did a couple of years ago in some journal, but I can't remember where...

tourism... Money. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.207.117 (talk) 20:57, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

A somewhat, how do you call those things, sophomoric desire to take the composer at his word. "When you write 'as long as possible', don't count on it that some might not take you at their word."--2001:A61:20A7:1001:F15E:E9E8:8738:9158 (talk) 00:37, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Title

According to [1], the proper title is ASLSP, and it stands for "As SLow(ly) and Soft(ly) as Possible". Does anybody know if this source is reputable? I have only seen two or three references to "ASAP" and none of them have been primary or secondary sources. All of the piano recordings I have seen simply call it "ASLSP" and the only organ recording I know of calls it "Organ²/ASLSP". I have found no recordings calling it "As Slow as Possible". --W0lfie 16:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible its called "As SLow aS Possible" and not "As SLow As Possible" (ASLAP) to avoid the rather humorous pronunciation "ass slap"? just a thought —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.68.40.220 (talk) 21:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

That source,johncage.info is extremely reliable and a wonderful reference for Cage's music. The piece that's being performed is not ASLSP, which was written in 1985 for a piano competition. That score was for organ or piano, but Cage adapted the idea two years later into an organ piece, Organ²/ASLSP, which is in three staves.

ASAP, anyone? --CPGACoast (talk) 13:57, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

If the title actually stands for "As Slow(ly) and Soft(ly) as Possible," why has this information not been added to this article -- after 14 years?!!! 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:34, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

A bit of vitriol

I removed this:

It is not expected that any similar exercise in artistic auto-masturbation will ever again take place, as the reaction of any normal person is to be sickened by the sheer egotistical pointlessness of such a "performance". As TISM once truly observed, "It's novel, it's unique, it's shithouse". Nor is it expected that the piece will continue to completion, as those involved (and the owners of the venue) must surely come to their senses some time in the remaining 600-odd years.

Since, while criticism should be incorporated in the article, this is probably not the way to do it... NPOV requires a bit more nuance. Oh, and what makes "auto-masturbation" different from the regular act? 82.92.119.11 13:09, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

According to Masturbation, the word "can refer to excitation either by oneself or by another". Presumably, the former is "auto-masturbation", and the latter might be "allo-masturbation". — FJG 17:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Wildly off-topic, of course, but I think "excitation by another" usually applies only for mutual masturbation, or when the verb "masturbate" is used transitively ("he masturbated her"), which is also rather uncommon. "Masturbation" proper almost always refers to an act performed on oneself, though I can see how "auto-masturbation" might not be a total pleonasm. Still, as a matter of style, it should probably be avoided unless the precision is obviously necessary, which in this case it's probably not... 82.92.119.11 18:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

A wise edit, though it was some nicely written (and not entirely inaccurate) vitriol. I personally would have done it more along the lines of "Smartasses." --Ghost of John Cage --Lode Runner (talk) 09:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Cage would have been delighted to read it. Schoenberg said of Cage, ‘Not a composer, but an inventor of genius.’ Cage made many people rethink music - the definition of music as ‘organised sound’ dates from his era. He was a polemicist, if you like, and accordingly provocative.61.68.176.248 (talk) 19:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Heh

So does this qualify for {{currentevent}}, since we're describing exactly which notes are currently in effect? Haha, this is great. --Interiot 14:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course. I've added the template. —Nightstallion (?) 15:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I especially like "Information may change rapidly as the event progresses."... ;) —Nightstallion (?) 15:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I made a specialised template, just for fun. I think this would be more appropriate: User:Inkington/current(ish) ;-) ~Inkiиgton 18:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll likely be reverted, but I've added it to the article. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 12:07, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Excellent work! Grandmasterka 02:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Ha! I had previously removed the current tag (I think they're way overused). The new tag is hilarious. Nice work. --Alcuin 01:15, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

i like it very much! W guice 23:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

That's great! just appropriate enough that I don't think it will get reverted. W0lfie 19:32, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Current Events

Allow me to express my disapproval of the funny current events box at the top. I agree that it's funny, but I don't think it should be here. This is an encyclopedia, and jokes don't belong in the main namespace. Our other funny articles (Flying Spaghetti Monster, Exploding Whale, etc.) all manage to keep it professional, which at the end of the day actually makes it more ironic, at least to me—what other encyclopedia covers this kind of great stuff and yet does it seriously? --Spangineer^ws (háblame) 04:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, I agree. I will remove it. --KFP (talk | contribs) 23:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't agree, actually. It seems serious enough until you examine it a bit more closely, and so it adds in a way that makes it quite unique... But I certainly won't revert something like this. Still, I'd prefer to have the tag in there. —Nightstallion (?) 23:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

• I think you will have to prove that the performance at the Halberstadt is a joke before you call the "current event" label a joke. --Roland 07:43, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

• • I think the "joke" is that if the performance goes as planned, it will be a "current event" for the next 629 years. Which is funny, but it's also a correct statement. cmadler (talk) 12:20, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Correction

I think the current chord/sonority description is incorrect. Checking out the ASLSP website: [2] and this reference from The Times: [3], it looks like the A3-C4-F#4 chord is still going, and will continue until July 5th 2012.

The chord that finished on May 5th 2006 was a previous E3-E4 octave which began on 5th July 2004.

I'll amend. Feel free to revert if I've got it wrong. 132.185.240.120 12:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC) Biff in Cardiff

Quick question

Is someone actually sitting at the organ and playing this, or is the organ automatic, like a player piano? James Callahan 16:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Going by one news article that mentions "keys being held down by weights", I'm guessing that someone manually adjusts those weights each day the chord changes. And I'm guessing that the organ runs on its own, without any further human interaction, until the next chord change. Could someone confirm and work this detail into the article? --68.0.120.35 18:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

contradiction

The article currently mentions: "There are eight pieces, any one of which must be omitted ... Organ2/ASLSP does not allow for an omission of one of the pieces ..."

This seems to be contradictory.

Also, the article says that "Organ²/ASLSP (As SLow aS Possible) is a musical piece" and later says that it has 8 pieces.

Which is it? I'm guessing the proper music theory term would be to say "Organ²/ASLSP has 8 sections".

--68.0.120.35 18:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

???

Has anyone noticed the title of this page? Talk:As Slow As Possible as in Talk as slow as possible? :-) -- Jac _roe 17:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I actually laughed out loud. Hyacinth (talk) 03:27, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

confusing statement

What is meant by "This leads to a curve from 1361 over 2000 to 2639"? --Shanedidona (talk) 04:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Power source

What is the power source that keeps the sound going? I assume it's electricity. Will electricity keep the instrument playing without break for 600 more years or is there a backup power source? Badagnani (talk) 09:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

electricity, and they have a back-up generator (presumably running on diesel fuel, as they all do) to cover breakdowns. Whether it is appropriate to have back-up generators, which are meant to be things for hospitals, power plants and perhaps some very important factories, for a prank like this is another question.--2001:A61:20A7:1001:F15E:E9E8:8738:9158 (talk) 00:42, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

It's not that the back-up generator would be used for a hospital or something if it wouldn't be used for this piece. This argument is like saying it's inappropriate to eat dessert because someone somewhere in the world is starving. 2A02:C7D:9BD1:3700:D30:3CE7:A2DD:5237 (talk) 11:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Removed section

I took out this section, because it seems to be entirely based on an image which doesn't exist anymore. I think the long Cage quote is from a score, but it really needs to be verified. Anyone want to figure out where that came from? :

Organ2/ASLSP contains profoundly different musical material than its predecessor (pictured above). The performance instructions vary slightly, as well.

ASLSP Performance Note:

The title is an abbreviation of "as slow as possible." It also refers to "Soft morning city! Lsp!" the first exclamations in the last paragraph of Finnegans Wake (James Joyce).

There are eight pieces, any one of which must be omitted and any one of which must be repeated. The repetition may be placed anywhere (even before its appearance in the suite) but otherwise the order of the pieces as written shall be maintained.

Neither tempo nor dynamics have been notated. Time proportions are given (just as maps give proportional distances). Accidentals apply only to those pitches they directly precede.

Each hand plays its own part and is not to be assisted by the other. A diamond-shaped note indicates a note to be depressed without sounding. All the notes have stems. The stem gives the point in time of the single note, interval or aggregate. A closed notehead tied to an open notehead indicates the end of a sustained sound. Sustained sounds are also sometimes notated with straight line-extensions.

In a performance a correspondence between space and time should be realized so that the music "sounds" as it "looks". —-- John Cage

The piece was commissioned by The Friends of the Maryland Summer Institute for the Creative and Performing Arts as a contemporary requirement for a piano competition. Cage employed an open format mainly to insure that no two performances would be the same, providing the judges a break from the monotony of most competitions.

Organ2/ASLSP does not allow for an omission of one of the pieces, but it does require one repetition.

The removed section ends here. -Gohst (talk) 01:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

ok honestly

exactly why are they doing this insane project?--Jakezing (talk) 04:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

As an artistic statement against the unnatural acceleration and fleetingness of life in today's Western culture. However, this talk page is reserved for discussion on how to improve the article, not for general talk about the article's subject matter. user:Everyme 17:26, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

How can this be carried out?

How can this be carried out? How can they ensure there are instructions to follow for 639 years? As of today, 639 years ago was in 1369. That was a time people were still making crusades all over Europe and killing each other if they interpreted the Bible in the wrong way. We hardly even know anyone from that period, except for the most prominent political and religious figures. Objects and documents from that period are considered invaluable historical remains, akin to sacred relics. Of course, society has grown better at recording history very drastically, but still, 639 years is a bloody long time. How can we make sure people to come even understand whatever instructions we leave them? For all we know, even the languages we now speak might die out by then. JIP | Talk 19:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

You got any libraries that old? How do they run? A strict set of rules that the person following has to follow in order to maintain the place. In fact, a quick look at Popes will show you that idea hasn't died out. In fact, picking one at random - Pope Cornelius - shows he was pope in the year 253. There have been lots of tasks undertaken by man which have lasted more than the lifetime of any one person. The Crazy Horse Memorial was started in '48 and the original artist died 34 years later. The face wasn't even completed until 16 years after that. It's wrong to assume a piece of music is a trivial matter. Just because its the worlds longest, or worlds biggest, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or won't be complete. Why build the world's largest skateboard? Or the Biggest ball of twine? Because these things can be done. It's human nature. Don't dismiss it. -Gohst (talk) 20:51, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

But 600 years is not 50. It's safe to assume that in 600 years there will be war, natural disaster, sabotage, instrument or building failure, or some obstacle on legal grounds—all that may interrupt the performance. And as I understand, the goal is to play the piece uninterrupted on a single instrument in a single place. Papacy, on the other hand, is not even continuous: we experienced 16 days without a Pope 6 years ago and the world didn't end. Even an A-bomb over Rome wouldn't really matter if a new Pope were validly elected shortly thereafter.--46.113.25.28 (talk) 17:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

As an aside, the stereotype of killing because of interpreting the Bible in the wrong way (which, if it did apply, is after all a really better reason for war than coveting a coal-field the other one possesses, and the like) did not start until around 150 years later. At that time, they died a lot, or should I say recovered from a plague where a lot had died, but there was not at that time any relevant heresy to combat.--2001:A61:20A7:1001:F15E:E9E8:8738:9158 (talk) 00:47, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Removed from article

I removed several sections from the article for various reasons. I see that they were removed before (as mentioned here), but it was readded later with no explanation. My comments are in italics

ASLSP Performance Note:

The original work for piano is comprised of eight pieces, any one of which must be omitted and any one of which must be repeated. The repetition may be placed anywhere (even before its appearance in the suite) but otherwise the order of the pieces as written shall be maintained. Organ2/ASLSP does not allow for an omission of one of the pieces, but it does require one repetition.

• Performance note from where? The imperative tense is strange for an encyclopedia, and the text itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. (I.e. any one piece must be omitted and any one must be repeated? I've read a lot of music, but never any that had a choose-your-own-adventure format.)

Neither tempo nor dynamics have been notated. Time proportions are given (just as maps give proportional distances). Accidentals apply only to those pitches they directly precede.

Each hand plays its own part and is not to be assisted by the other. A diamond-shaped note indicates a note to be depressed without sounding. All the notes have stems. The stem gives the point in time of the single note, interval or aggregate. A closed notehead tied to an open notehead indicates the end of a sustained sound. Sustained sounds are also sometimes notated with straight line-extensions.

• These two lines would probably benefit from their own section which is about the actual sheet music.

The text is interesting (at least, that of which I can make sense ;-) but, as used, I think it only made the article more confusing. JazzMan 21:26, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

About the sections: I always took it to mean there are eight sections of the piece. You need to play eight in total, too, but you have to omit one section (and substitute another section in its place, thereby playing that section twice]. This would have the effect of "randomizing" the piece so as that each performance will not only be different due to its length, but the structure chosen by the performer. -Gohst (talk) 11:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

That's what I would guess it means, but I would love to find a source that backs that up. I wonder how many times Cage thinks people are going to be playing this 639 year long piece? I doubt too many people will be around to hear it played two different ways! JazzMan 18:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

John Cage died 12 August 1992 so he does not think about anything much now. However, one of the key ideas of the piece is that no tempo is specified, so each performer plays it as slowly as they choose - it has been played many times, at rates between 10 minutes and about 14 hours (by a real-time human performer). It is only this specific performance for which the tempo has been set to make it last 639 years. Contrast this with John Cage's piece 4'33" (four minutes 33 seconds), which is to be played in precisely that time. The entire piece consists of musical rests - complete silence - but the directions say it must be played with all the usual actions such as adjusting the piano stool, turning the music pages over, taking a bow, thanking the (silent) orchestra, etc.

As regards the variability permitted by the requirement to omit one section and repeat another, every composer's work is re-interpreted by each conductor and performer - people are not robots. This rearrangement is akin to adding an extra chorus, transposing the key, or adapting "Happy Birthday, dear (UserName)".

The organ can be repaired (or even redesigned) during the performance if needed. In fact, I read some time around 2001 that each note (i.e. pipe) would only be added 'just in time' as required. This presumably improves the cash flow. Funding is partly through sale of memorial plaque space in the church. I did wonder how the rehearsal for this performance went, and whether there was a breeding program in place to ensure a supply of performers in future. (I suspect the audience will take care of their own breeding program as usual.)

Somewhat worryingly, I notice each date listed in the article for a note change is the 5th of a month. I think this is a huge mistake in the production, as the irregular tempo has become clearly audible. The tempo should obviously be set as one quaver equal to a given number of days, not by month.

Paul Pedant (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Who built/is building the organ?

Does anyone have any information about the organ? What guarantees are there that the instrument will be maintained for the life of the project? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mopalia (talk • contribs) 18:04, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

BPM

How many bpm does the speed the track is played at equal to? ^^ --83.100.72.206 (talk) 15:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Given how slow the piece is I think it makes more sense to measure it in bpy (beats per year). Using the sound changes dates recorded on the page I get an average of about 1.2 bpy. Then we can covert it to bpm: ((1.2 / 365) / 24) / 60, about 2 * 10^-6 bpm. 200.136.63.6 (talk) 19:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

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Length of piece

Does anybody know who long this piece is in terms of beats/note or measures? Or the BPM the 600 year performance playing at? Since this is such an unusual performance, "reasonable" guesses could differ by a few orders of magnitude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.24.240.10 (talk) 14:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Table of "Impluses"

Besides being non self-explanatory to non-German speakers, the copied table is ambiguous when notes are added and subtracted at the same time (K/P), and the 5th column is a mystery. Wouldn't this be better?

John Cage ORGAN²/ASLSP (639 years, part 1)

Event Action Sound Date (duration in days) 1 G. P. (silence) September 5, 2001 518 2 +g#′, +h′, +g#″ g#′, h′, g#″ February 5, 2003 516 3 +e, +e′ e, e', g#′, h′, g#″ July 5, 2004 365 4 -g#′, -h′ e, e', g#″ July 5, 2005 184 5 +a′, +c″, +f#″ e, e', g#″, a' January 5, 2006 120 6 -e, -e′ g#″, a' May 5, 2006 792 7 +c′, +a, +b′ g#″, b', a', c′, a July 5, 2008 123 8 -c′ g#″, b', a', a November 5, 2008 92 9 +d′, +e″ g#″, e″, b', a', d', a February 5, 2009 515 10 -e″ g#″, b', a', d', a July 5, 2010 215 11 -d′, -g#″ b', a', a February 5, 2011 181 12 +c′, +db′(both at 16′ pitch), -a, -b′ a, d♭, c August 5, 2011 335 13 -a′, -c″, -f#″ etc. July 5, 2012 457 14 +d#′, +a#′, +e″ etc. October 5, 2013 15 +g#, +e′ etc. September 5, 2020 Sparafucil (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2020 (UTC) References Doesn't make sense This passage doesn't make sense: On July 5, 2012 two more organ pipes were taken out. And 2 were in the organ. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:18, 23 August 2020 (UTC) How was the piece composed? To add to this article: information about how this piece was composed. Did Cage use chance operations to generate the pitches, durations, and other parameters? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:20, 23 August 2020 (UTC) Tuning Pardon my ignorance, but I am unclear about the notes marked "(16′)" on the table of impulses; as far as I'm aware it isn't found in scientific pitch notation. Is there something to do with the tuning that has gone unexplained on this page? Or is it left over from the translation of the German notation from the original source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.39.161 (talk) 05:09, 15 September 2020 (UTC) That would only be clear to an organist and a wikilink is in order. The two Aug 2011 pitches are for the 'player's right foot, and while most organstops are based on the lowest key sounding an 8' pipe, pedals are often assumed to sound an octave lower. (btw, you can sigh by typing 4 tildes ~) Sparafucil (talk) 09:35, 15 September 2020 (UTC) Recordings Are there sources for recordings being undertaken of the work in whole or part? If more than one recording, and samples have been released, are there any sources for critical reviews comparing recordings? Are there recordings available for public performances? Might there be short sampling extract recordings?SovalValtos (talk) 22:18, 5 February 2024 (UTC)