Talk:Afghans

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 August 2021 and 1 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sahreenkhan10.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Does the term "Afghan language" exist for Pashto?[edit]

I have never heard or read the therm "Afghan language". Or I have never heard the term "lesan e Afghan" or "zuban e Afghan". So I don't think such a term exists and thus it should be deleted. Unless someone can prove that there is such a term? Behnam 02:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Afghānī" is the name given to the Pashtun ethnicity as well as to the Pashto language. Since "Afghan" means "Pashtun", "Afghan language" means "language of the Pashtuns", and thus "Pashto". It'S not as common as "Pashto", but is a technically correct expression. Tājik 16:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But have you ever heard or read this term before? Also, I do not think that is necessary because they can learn about the Pashto language by clicking on Pashtun or Demographics of Afghanistan. And, it might be misleading into getting people to think that Pashto is the only language of Afghanistan. I think we should remove that for now until we can confirm that such a term is used. Behnam 00:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I have heraed the expression "Afghan language" (or "language of the Afghans"), in and outside Afghanistan. It's synonymous with Pashto.
It's also used in the Encyclopaedia Iranica, as well as in the Encyclopaedia of Islam.
Tājik 21:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I see. But, I strongly think that this is the wrong place to mention that. It is very confusing for people that don't know that, which is almost everyone that does a search for "Afghan". If we are going to mention that Pashto is the "Afghan Language" then we would need to also mention that Dari/Persian is also spoken by Afghans (peoples of Afghanistan). And that really is not necessary here. The proper place to mention that Pashto is the "Afghan language" would be in the Pashtuns article or the Demographics of Afghanistan article. Behnam 03:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Afghan language" is used in scholarly literature, and so, it should also be mentioned in here. All the rest is explained in the article Afghanistan as well as in Pashto language. Tājik 19:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't necessary to put that here. All it does is create alot of confusion for people who are not familiar with these terms. For example, the person reading this might think that the language of the Afghan nationality is Pashto. I think it should be removed to avoid confusion. Behnam 23:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect: you are not in the position to question scholarly articles, and the opinion of leading scholars. If the term confuses you, then it's your own personal problem. The expression "Afghan language" as a synonym for Pashto is used in authoritative sources, and so it should also be mentioned in here. Tājik 19:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so there is such a term as "Afghan language". But the language is not called "Afghan". It is "Afghan language". This search is for "Afghan" only. The word "Afghan" is not used to refer to the Pashto language. There is "Afghan language", but the word "Afghan" is never used to refer to Pashto. So I don't think mentioning that term belongs here in the first place. Also, I did not say I would be confused. My concern is that people reading this would be confused and think that the language of the nationality Afghan, is Pashto. So this is also misleading. Behnam 23:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Persian term for the Pashto language is "Afghānī", and this term is also used in all classical Persian books and poems. Besides that, the article says: "... Additionally, the language of the Pashtuns is known as Pashto or Afghān language. ..."
No one will be confused with that. Readers should know that "Afghan" - in its original and actual meaning - means "Pashtun", and that the "Afghan language" is not Persian (as many believe) but Pashto.
Tājik 23:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But if the language of the Afghan ethnicity (Pashto) is mentioned, then wouldn't the other language of the Afghan nationality (Dari/Farsi) also have to be mentioned? I don't think we can mention one without mentioning the other. The best thing to do is not mention either one, for this page. Behnam 00:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Persian language is not the "language of the Afghan nationality". In fact, according to Afghanistan's consitution, Pashto is still the "national language of Afghanistan", while Persian (named "Dari" by Afghanistan's constitution) has an official status in the government (next to Pashto). That's also the reason why - according to the constitution - the national anthem of Afghanistan has to be in Pashto - because it is the national language of Afghanistan. Official documents in Afghanistan MAY be written in Dari, at least a secondary translation to Persian is requested. However, all official documents MUST be written in Pashto. This may be confusing for a "common Afghan", because in every-day life the Persian language is dominant. But the consitution of Afghanistan makes clear that Pashto is the ONLY national language of Afghanistan, and the FIRST official language. After all, it's the purpose of Wikipedia to educate people, not to further underline common misunderstandings. Tājik 00:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Should the following be removed or stay?[edit]

deleted! Tājik 01:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Which definition of Afghan are people normally looking for?[edit]

There are two definitions of the word Afghan. One being a synonym for Pashtun, and the other a more recent term describing the nationality of people from Afghanistan. So when a user searches for Afghan on Wikipedia, which one do they have in mind? I think almost everyone that searches for this term is thinking of the word as the nationality. So which definition should we have in bold font? I personally think we should have the nationals of Afghanistan in bold since that is what people are looking for and we should point it out for them. Behnam 21:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know we use the word Pakistani to refer to the nationals of Pakistan. Or Tajikistani to refer to nationals of Tajikistan and so on. Then what about Afghanistani and Afghan? Isn't it like Tajikistani and Tajik? I think English speakers use a word because it is simpler to pronounce. They do not care about its accuracy especially when it comes to issues about middle east. As wikipedians, we have to be careful not to be affected by the media too much. Sangak 21:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]



Why is this page protected?

Why was the reference to Pashtun people removed, althou it is well sourced? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.82.129.60 (talk) 17:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted it. Thanks for pointing it out. Take care. -- Behnam 17:49, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

nonesense edits by Bejnar[edit]

Bejnar added the other renditions of Pashtun. What is the point of that? This article is a disambiguation pagefor Afghan, not an article. The reader can see the other renditions of Pashtun in that article. This should only be a disambiguation page for Afghan, nothing else. Bejnar should revert his edits or someone else should revert them. Qandahari-Pashtun (talk) 23:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citation for Pashto=Afghan language[edit]

Here are two scholarly and authoritative sources.

afghan. (n.d.). The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Retrieved January 03, 2008, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/afghan

"afghan." WordNet 3.0. Princeton University. 03 Jan. 2008. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/afghan>.

hello dear friend thant artical is not true please eidt it thanksArian110 (talk) 08:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've restored the version of User:Kingturtle. Tājik (talk) 15:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is Afghanistani ?[edit]

This is not a term recognized by the Constitution of Afghanistan or in the common everyday usage of the majority of Afghans. It might have been used inappropriately a few times by Western commentators, but other than that deserves no merit. The vast majority of Afghans in Afghanistan do not use this term and it should be removed.

This is a politically motivated term, which at the same time makes no sense. If people want to disassociate themselves from the word Afghan which means Pashtoon, why would it be any better to be called Afghanistani ? As that only implies you are from the Land of Pashtoons ?

In any case, I think this should be removed as it is not common usage and only confuses people as it is a new invention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afghan25 (talk • contribs) 18:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relevant[edit]

What is the relevance of the paragraph about "The Transformation of the Afghan Refugee: 1979-2009"? It seems entirely off point. --Bejnar (talk) 01:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted that paragraph as unrelated to the topic. --Bejnar (talk) 11:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What picture is appropriate?[edit]

Historic photo of "Afghan nomads", 1919
Student in Kandahar, 2009
An Afghan father carries his child at the Blue Mosque, 2012
Afghan schoolgirls 2002

File:Voting line in the 2009 presidential election.jpg
Voters, Kunar Province, 2009
Young Afghan man
Afghan National Police

There seems to be a disagreement about what picture is appropriate to illustrate this article. For some time the picture was a montage of heads, one of which was labeled Afghan, presumably meaning Pastun. Someone else has substituted a couple of historical images of "afghans". It seems to me that we ought to discuss the criteria for illustration first, before deciding on a specific image. My own thought is that the picture should illustrate a group of varied citizens of Afghanistan. Other thoughts? Please do not disturb the status-quo-ante until consensus is reached. --Bejnar (talk) 20:00, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the second photo, which has since been removed.

FWIW, I don't feel the montage foto adds much, but have no strong objection to it. I would think that at least one foto of contemporary Afghanis should be added, perhaps in place of the montage. --Pete Tillman (talk) 20:42, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some possibles: --Pete Tillman (talk) 20:52, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I rather see a group, such as this. But adults might be better. --Bejnar (talk) 21:09, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No reason for just one. Maybe the historical tribesmen, plus the kids? --Pete Tillman (talk) 21:41, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds good to me, but I'm still interested in criteria and to see what opinions other interested parties may have. --Bejnar (talk) 22:10, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here's an adult group of citizens. --Bejnar (talk) 22:34, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • So far, it's you and me. Why don't you wait a bit, then pick a couple? Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 06:05, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The old black and white shows Turkmen; the school girl with white headcraf looks like a typical Shia Iranian and likely a Tajik (majority of Afghans are Sunni); the man with baby looks oriental but majority of Afghans are not like that, he is either Uzbek, Hazara or Tajik; the school girls with flags is of bad quality and the name "Afghan" goes better with a male; and the voters in Kunar could be Pakistanis since it is a border area where Afghans and Pakistanis mix. There are countless of good images available here so we should choose ones of high quality that show the very common Afghans, no poor people and no rich looking. Btw, Afghans in general are considered as good looking, with big eyes and fair skin so I've added two images of very common faces of Afghan males.--Fareed30 (talk) 03:50, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly agree that many Afghans are good looking! Thanks for your thoughts. Sounds like you are knowledgeable about Afghan people. Best regards, Pete Tillman (talk) 04:06, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Use of Afghani to represent Afghan people[edit]

The article as it stands suggests that the use of the term Afghani to mean Afghan people may have its origins during the Soviet war. This is not the case. I was in Afghanistan in 1967, and even then people went to some lengths to make the distinction clear. But how do I modify the article? Any thoughts? Groogle (talk) 02:34, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Step one: Find a reliable source that discusses this. --Bejnar (talk) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Afghanistani[edit]

The term Afghanistani is not mentioned in this article, but should be, if only briefly. 173.89.236.187 (talk) 18:59, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While little used, the term has been around for quite a while. I find that Henry Ward Beecher used the word as early as 1879 here. --Bejnar (talk) 07:57, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Should this page even exist ?[edit]

I have removed the section "describing" the word Afghan. It is not based on any historical text or documentation, but rather on an article in an unreputable and unknown magazine with a politicized agenda. I would challenge the creator to provide any documentation on the claims in the article he has cited.

Second, why is this page even still active. There is already a wikipedia page for the description and history of the term Afghan, which is based on scholarly literature. It is interesting that a search for the term Afghan does not take one to the actual page for the term Afghan, but rather to this one that was been put up by Chinese-Afghans, or as they are called in Afghanistan, Hazara's, and contains nothing but ad hominems, undocumented claims and heresy.

I would like to remove this whole page, since none of the information is factually correct, and a search for the term Afghan should revert to the actual page for Afghan, and if anyone wants to put this information, they should add it to that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Afghan25 (talk • contribs) 04:56, 14 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to being terribly POV in intent, the section that Afghan25 deleted was a copyright violation of a page from the www.afghanlord.org website. It has also be re-deleted by Rohid2. --Bejnar (talk) 20:58, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Afghan25: You said: "There is already a wikipedia page for the description and history of the term Afghan, which is based on scholarly literature." What page are you refering to? --Bejnar (talk) 20:58, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Afghan25: You said that this page "contains nothing but ad hominems, undocumented claims and heresy." Could you be specific as to what statements on the page are unsupported by citation to a reliable source? --Bejnar (talk) 20:58, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Afghan25: Do you believe that the Encyclopædia Iranica, Garner's Modern American Usage and the other books here cited are not scholarly? --Bejnar (talk) 20:58, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not only that but this page is saying Pashtun land's are traditionally located south of the Hindu Kush. This is totally racist and a facist POV which shouldn't even belong here. Pashtuns have been traditionally nomads who have been migrating north and south of the Hindu Kush for centuries. Akmal94 (talk) 07:11, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links[edit]

An IP editor added a link to hotrecentnews under "External links"; it provides an index of selective recent news stories relatively poorly translated into English. I really don't see its relevance to this article about the demonym "Afghan". Unless there is objection, I will remove it. --Bejnar (talk) 19:18, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notable people[edit]

@Grad22: Most of these people that you added aren't Afghans!; Meaning that they aren't from Afghanistan or hold an Afghanistani citizenship.--SharabSalam (talk) 11:55, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You stating "Afghanistani" clearly shows your lack of knowledge of the country. Read up before using wikipedia with reference to Afghans. The correct term is "Afghan". "Afghanistani" is not a word, so refrain from using made up terms to use for a debate. To address your actual statement, yes they are all from Afghanistan, or claimed ancestry from the modern borders of Afghanistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grad22 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 10 March 2019 (UTC) <--- Blocked sock of User:Mujhideen101, see SPI Mujhideen101[reply]

@Grad22: You are right. I don't have much knowledge about Afghanistan but I am trying to understand. which of these terms refer to people who hold a citizenship of Afghanistan, Afghani or Afghanistani? And is this article about Afghanis(Afghans) or Afghanistanis? I am not trying to edit or remove anything I am trying to understand because this article seems confusing(I believe many people think the same). Afghanistani is not a made up term it's in many sources and it is in this article lead paragraph. It says (also referred to as Afghanistani) it also says (refers to someone or something from Afghanistan, in particular a citizen of that country.) Should we remove that sentence?. Thanks.--SharabSalam (talk) 10:02, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is an Article about Afghans here Afghan (ethnonym). Imran Khan for example has no relationship with Afghanistan except that his ancestors might be Afghans (not sure about that) that means his name should not be in this article as this article is about people who hold a citizenship from Afghanistan not people who are ethnically Afghans. I think(I might be wrong) that the term Afghan is an ethnicity term and the term Afghanistani is a nationality term. SharabSalam (talk) 10:12, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There are many things you have stated and claimed so I will try and address it all, bare with me please. "Afghani" is the currency of Afghanistan so it must never be applied to an Afghan. "Afghanistani" at the same time is also incorrect, you are welcome to look up in the dictionary and may be suprised that it is not a word so it cannot be stated even with "sources" as these articles cannot be relied upon if they do not even understand if something is a word to begin with or not (words can only be applied in today's knowledge and not what "some" people may have called Afghans, which is incorrect in modern and ancient usage to the people of Afghanistan.

Every single "Khan" is related to Afghans in a certain generation. This article refers to anyone who originated from Afghanistan as their parents technically still have citizenship (which in legal terms means their children are allowed to enter the country easier as they are recognised as from the country somewhat).

Afghan is not an ethnic group, "Pashtuns" and "Tajiks" are ethnic groups. Afghan refers to anyone from the boreders of Afghanistan as well as following their "culture" (keep in mind Pashtuns made a majority of Afghan culture so that is how they are strongly linked to being "Afghan").

The nationality term for someone born in, raised, from, or claiming ancestry from the region of Afghanistan, is called an "Afghan". I hope this helps, and it is very thorough as I attempted to break everything down for you to learn more about Afghans. Have a good day my friend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grad22 (talk • contribs) 09:19, 11 March 2019 (UTC) <--- Blocked sock of User:Mujhideen101, see SPI Mujhideen101[reply]

Afghan[edit]

Afghan is not refferd to Afghanistani, because this is with contradiction to constitution of afghanistan Imran Ahmadzai (talk) 16:51, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Afghan = Pashtun ( pre modern consitution change)[edit]

i have created a new edit and provided sutiable refrenceces towards the usage of the word afghan. Pre 19th century afghan consitution

There is abslotely no arguement or doubt,The word afghan, as proven by both British and ancient persian classical poems to bactrian sources refers to the pashtuns as the "afghan". The same cannot be said about hazaras and tajiks ( who have not been refered to as afghan pre 1946 consitution). There is no to change and this is absolutely nesscarry in defining the usage of the word afghan is history.

Dera manana Pashtunfacts (talk) 15:48, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Afghans[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Afghans's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ABCBBCARD":

  • From Ethnic groups in Afghanistan: "ABC NEWS/BBC/ARD poll – Afghanistan: Where Things Stand" (PDF). ABC News. Kabul, Afghanistan. pp. 38–40. Archived (PDF) from the original on 28 June 2011. Retrieved 29 October 2010.
  • From Demographics of Afghanistan: "ABC NEWS/BBC/ARD poll - Afghanistan: Where Things Stand" (PDF). ABC News. Kabul, Afghanistan. pp. 38–40. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2011-06-28. Retrieved 2010-10-29.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:59, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Afghans share unique common ancestry[edit]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3314501/#:~:text=In%20conclusion%2C%20Y%2Dchromosome%20diversity,%25%20CI%202%2C775%E2%80%937%2C725).

“However, we have found that all Afghans largely share a heritage of a common ancestral population”

Does this mean that “Afghan” can be considered an ethnicity after all? Mason1999 (talk) 16:08, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Afghans as in Pashtuns not other ethnic groups 2607:FEA8:4D60:590:FDF9:EC73:4FE9:6444 (talk) 04:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Afghans[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Afghans's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Ahmed":

Reference named "Afghan refugees in India cast adrift amid coronavirus pandemic":

Reference named "New Statesman":

Reference named "data2.unhcr.org":

Reference named "Onward Movements of Afghan Refugees":

Reference named "Hakimi":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 03:05, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Referencing issues[edit]

@Nafhax: you added lots of new figures to the infobox, but many of them aren't correctly referenced. I've cleaned up the bad references, but that leaves several thing unreferenced completely. A robot fixed several problems, but many remain. Do you have references for these figures? Otherwise, I think they should be removed from the article. -- Mikeblas (talk) 21:37, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Most of these references work in the Afghan diaspora page, although I don’t know the problem these references have, but they could be removed. Nafhax (talk) 22:25, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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