[WikiEN-l] Classification of China?

Sat Apr 26 01:09:26 UTC 2003

You'll have to do better than that! - your description applies equally
well to the United States government, and to both the Green Party
and Libertarian Party.  And therein lies the problem with attempts
to say a government is or is not authoritarian, communist, or
whatever - those kinds of terms are editorial assessments of a
pattern of objectively observed behavior.  Even if 99% of people
believe the assessment, the only truly NPOV thing you can say is
"99% of observers believe the government to be authoritarian".

Stan

Fred Bauder wrote:

>No, the Roman Catholic church is authoritarian in different ways, for
>example, one person, the Pope, has the power to issue edits binding upon all
>catholics. There is a hierarchal structure, an official canon, and
>discipline applied to those within the hierachy who deviate from the canon.
>All goes to show that if you change the subject, you change the question and
>the answer.
>
>Fred
>
>
>>From: Sean Barrett <sean at epoptic.org>
>>Organization: Boskonia
>>Reply-To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
>>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:06:19 -0700
>>To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
>>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Classification of China?
>>
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>>And the Catholic Church (for another example you used of an present-day
>>authoritarian organization) does any of these things?  I can (I have)
>>written letters extremely critical of Cardinal Mahoney that were
>>published -- without interference -- in the free press.  Should I fear
>>the Spanish Inquisition?
>>
>>Methinks your definition of "authoritarian organization" is remarkably
>>broad if it lumps the Catholic Church in with the Butchers of Beijing.
>>
>>It makes me wonder how fluid your definition of "truth" is.
>>
>>
>>
>>Fred Bauder wrote:
>>| The criteria are control of the press, repression of political speech,
>>| imprisonment of those who atempt to organize an opposing political
>>party or
>>| a union, etc.
>>|
>>| Fred
>>|
>>|
>>|>From: Vicki Rosenzweig <vr at redbird.org>
>>|>Reply-To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
>>|>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:31:58 -0400
>>|>To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
>>|>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Classification of China?
>>|>
>>|>At 05:16 PM 4/25/03 -0600, Fred Bauder wrote:
>>|>
>>|>>I intend to speak truth. China (and the Catholic church, for another
>>|>>example) are authoritarian. \ It is not merely a matter of the opinion of
>>|>>vague critics. There are objective criteria which if met constitute an
>>|>>authoritarian government.
>>|>
>>|>This concerns me, not because I disagree, but because I don't know
>>|>what objective criteria Fred is using, and because almost anyone who
>>|>promotes a point of view sincerely believes that he or she is speaking
>>|>truth.
>>|>
>>|>The determination to speak truth, while admirable, is not the same as
>>|>NPOV, which is our policy.
>>|>
>>|>
>>|>
>>|>>Fred
>>|>>
>>|>>
>>|>>>From: Daniel Ehrenberg <littledanehren at yahoo.com>
>>|>>>Reply-To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
>>|>>>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
>>|>>>To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
>>|>>>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Classification of China?
>>|>>>
>>|>>>You can't just say "China is an evil totalitarian
>>|>>>country" (I know that's not what you said) or even
>>|>>>"China is a controlling country" because that's an
>>|>>>opinion, not a fact. The communist party in China
>>|>>>might think "We're not controlling or authoritarian,
>>|>>>we just want the best for our citizens", which makes
>>|>>>the comment POV.  You could say (in a later
>>|>>>paragraph), "China is critisized for being
>>|>>>[[authoritarianism and
>>|>>>totalitarianism|authoritarianist]].
>>|>>>
>>|>>>--- Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
>>|>>>
>>|>>>
>>|>>>>I stirred up this hornet's nest  by inserting a link
>>|>>>>to [[authoritarianism
>>|>>>>and totalitarianism|authoritarian]] into the first
>>|>>>>paragraph of the article.
>>|>>>>I think this is a fair characterization of the
>>|>>>>regime (regardless of what
>>|>>>>ever other adjective might describe it).
>>|>
>>|>--
>>|>Vicki Rosenzweig
>>|>vr at redbird.org
>>|>http://www.redbird.org
>>|>
>>|>_______________________________________________
>>|>WikiEN-l mailing list
>>|>WikiEN-l at wikipedia.org
>>|>http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>|
>>|
>>| _______________________________________________
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>>
>>- --
>>~ Sean Barrett     | John and Mary had never met. They were like
>>~ sean at epoptic.com | two hummingbirds who had also never met.
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