User talk:Ssabot25

Welcome![edit]

Hello Ssabot25, welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Our intro page contains a lot of helpful material for new users - please check it out! If you need help, visit Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on this page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Ironho lds 14:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

July 2008[edit]

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia!

I hope not to seem unfriendly or make you feel unwelcome, but I noticed your username, and I am concerned that it might not meet Wikipedia's username policy for the following reason: Specifically, your username contains the word "bot". On Wikipedia, usernames containing the word "bot" imply that the account is an automated account, and are reserved for approved bots. You can visit WP:CHU to change your username to another username that does not contain bot. After you look over that policy, could we discuss that concern here?

I'd appreciate learning your own views, for instance your reasons for wanting this particular name, and what alternative username you might accept that avoids raising this concern.

You have several options freely available to you:

If you can relieve my concern through discussing it here, I can stop worrying about it.
If the two of us can't agree here, we can ask for help through Wikipedia's dispute resolution process, such as requesting comments from other Wikipedians. Wikipedia administrators usually abide by agreements reached through this process.
You can keep your contributions history under a new username. Visit Wikipedia:Changing username and follow the guidelines there.

Thank you. Kesac (talk) 21:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No offence taken. I shall try to convince you before we decide any changes to be made.

The primary reason I would like to keep this username is due to registration on Yahoo Groups under the same name. If I would like to preserve searchability, which I intend, I should change my name here, as well as on Yahoo Groups (and pulse-jets.com forum, but I suppose this doesn't count as I am a new participant there and Google doesn't yet list my few contributions to that forum). I do not usually want to be searched for, but information associated with this account (which is primarily picking out freely available scientific articles, publishing links to selected/connected patents and if unavailable - summarizing them, original research where it applies, posing as accurate questions as my knowledge permits and subject demands) may provide useful to others. In fact, this username was developed so that it may be searchable without confusion, yet be easy to remember. It will require some effort to unwind that, and effort requires time. The more time I put into this, the less time I will have for things related with purpose of this username.

I could, of course, sacrifice searchability, but this undermines the reasons for publishing at all, as most of the stuff I try to pick out is available on the internet already, and whether I will talk about it using unconnected accounts or not talk at all will make little or no difference (but add to all the noie generated already).

To clarify one thing... I treat this name as a link to all sorts of information, with balance slowly shifting towards technical and engineering subjects. I intend it to be a keyword or searchable string of characters, not a 'persona'. The purpose of it is not ego-related.

Amongst other things, 'sabot' is a semantic unit. Syllable division is sa-bot (at least in most languages native to the western culture), but semantically the meaning is not derived from the sum of its compounds. The unit is recognizable in most of the western world due to 'sabotage' (coming from French, where workers used to throw wooden clogs, 'sabots' in French, into the machinery as a form of strike to make it stop or break down)

I did not pay attention to the bot naming habits here on Wikipedia (factual names seen by users during browsing, not rule-related ones), but rules specify the usernames should not end in 'bot'. While 'bot' may be the ending syllable of the only semantically meaningful part of my username, it does not end he username as such. But this is arguing semantics. The point is: will generic user or administrator mistake me for a bot, taking into account current bot naming habits of Wikipedia?--Ssabot25 (talk) 11:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to chip in; quite possibly yes, i'm afraid. Not all users are aware of the policy that it is the end of usernames that cannot be bot (I certainly wasn't before this) so a lot of users may mistake you for a bot. Changing the name isn't a big deal. In addition, wikipedia userpages are not actually searched by google and other search engines due to an agreement, so the searchability point is rather moot. Ironho lds 11:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I verified that. It appears that this agreement is country-specific, as I am capable to get Wikipedia results from, amongst others, Google.dk (results that link both to my userpage and this discussion, in fact). Typing 'ssabot25' into Opera's in-bred Google bar does not provide such results, so this may be valid for the country of your residence - probably US or Canada. You still may get Google results from this page by switching country (if Google allows that in your place) or routing to Google through a different country with all google-related cookies deleted. Amongst other things... we have just generated a small article arguing my username. From what I see two of the messages can be form-based, but nevertheless have to be read. In context of this link: http://www.morewords.com/contains/bot/ (that's English only) please consider how bureaucracy-generating can a system be where bots are differentiated from users by a single syllable (a capitalized syllable, mind, at least from what I have seen), and such rule being enforced to maximum extent (no b-o-t sequence anywhere). Especially if it reaches the second point in Kesac's list, where a silly little thing like this requires attention of several people reading through all these messages to reach a conclusion. The b-o-t cluster is short (3 letters, standard c-v-c syllable) and pronouncable to most people to whom English serves as a lingua franca, so the probability a user will pick this cluster in designing his username is relatively high, and instead of having an algorhytm tell user 'I can't do that Dave', it requires you guys to talk to me once the registration has been done, and be exposed to all the slings and arrows of outrageous wikipedia user who has the possibility to refuse to be subdued :) --Ssabot25 (talk) 23:30, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We're here to help in a particular case, not overhaul a policy. And yes, users do sometimes pick names with "bot" in, and we inform them, and most of the time they kindly change it. You'll note that the new registration page has a list of things usernames most not have, which includes " contain words like "bot" or "script" that refer to automated editing processes". You agreed to follow the rules and guidelines of wikipedia when signing up; this shouldn't create excess work and debate, I agree, but note that you're the main reason said work has been created. Ironho lds 00:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have time for this. You are fixed on forcing me to change my user name, therefore no discussion makes sense. You are ignoring a point in my reply that does not render my previous explanations invalid. You force a policy that is not formulated precisely (or formulated differently on various Wikipedia pages), so, to be enforced, must be interpreted. You do not interpret it in my favour, although I gave you reasons to do it. As I said before, changing the name of this account makes my edits to Wikipedia unnecessary, therefore, please block it or delete it, as you see fit.--Ssabot25 (talk) 11:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How does it make your edits unnecessary? The only thing that it changes is removing the fact that people see you as "ssabot25", and if increased internet publicity is your goal then this is the wrong place to do it. Ironho lds 10:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quote1:I do not usually want to be searched for, but information associated with this account (which is primarily picking out freely available scientific articles, publishing links to selected/connected patents and if unavailable - summarizing them, original research where it applies, posing as accurate questions as my knowledge permits and subject demands) may provide useful to others. Quote2:I am capable to get Wikipedia results from, amongst others, Google.dk (results that link both to my userpage and this discussion, in fact). Typing 'ssabot25' into Opera's in-bred Google bar does not provide such results, so this may be valid for the country of your residence - probably US or Canada. You still may get Google results from this page by switching country (if Google allows that in your place) or routing to Google through a different country with all google-related cookies deleted. Quote3:I could, of course, sacrifice searchability, but this undermines the reasons for publishing at all, as most of the stuff I try to pick out is available on the internet already, and whether I will talk about it using unconnected accounts or not talk at all will make little or no difference (but add to all the noie generated already).Quote4:To clarify one thing... I treat this name as a link to all sorts of information, with balance slowly shifting towards technical and engineering subjects. I intend it to be a keyword or searchable string of characters, not a 'persona'. The purpose of it is not ego-related. --Ssabot25 (talk) 11:07, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Surely you could simply create another account with "this user is known as..." at the top? It really isn't a big deal; we have lots of people of varying degrees of fame who edit under different pseudonyms to ones they use elsewhere. When/if you become well known, people may go "ah, ssabot25, isn't that the internet nickname of...?" but until then, for wikipedia purposes, people just go "ooh, automated bot!". Ironho lds 11:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fame? I am surprised how you don't seem to understand the point of what I'm writing. But this is not important anymore.

I will try to make Ssabot25 a doppelganger account with redirection to a different name which your policies, however vague, will find more acceptable. Is this fine?. --Ssabot25 (talk) 13:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. My apologies if I misunderstood; dense blocks of text are difficult on the eyes. Ironho lds 14:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]