Talk:Golden Retriever/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Spelling/Grammar

Is it me or is there quite a few people with horrible spelling and grammar skills editing this article? I mean the article has gotten a bit better but it's still happening. I figure it's merely once again people editing English Wikipedia who speak English as a second language and do not grasp the language very well - something I've seen all too many times. Meinsla (talk) 08:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The Wikipedia guideline Wikipedia:Be Bold encourages you to make changes that will be helpful to the article.Goodyfun (talk) 09:38, 14 March 2010 (UTC)Goodyfun

This need to be changed - "Golden Retrievers are really involved in commercials like the worldwide 2012 Super Bowl commercial. Not only were the Golden Retrievers involved in the Super Bowl commercials such as VolksWagen and Bud Light, but also appeared in the half time shows of every game.[33]"

I propose "Golden Retrievers have been frequently involved in commercials such as the worldwide 2012 Super Bowl commercial [33], and commercials for Volkswagen and Bud Light." or something a bit less remedial.

Anthropomorphism

This article needs to be written from a factual point-of-view without anthropomorphic attribution. E.g., what is a "sad," "happy" or "depressed" dog? Certainly zoologists and animal behaviorists would not employ these terms in any serious academic writing. Perhaps stating that the dog may appear "distressed" or "content" would be more appropriate. Certain behavior patterns in the dog may have evolved to elicit responses in humans. For example, if a dog appears "sad," it may be a learned response or adaptation to provoke a human reaction (in this case, to induce the human to feed or pet the dog in this case). I like the tenor of the article; it just needs some refinement. 70.231.162.145 (talk) 07:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)DM

Older entry

--62.252.64.15 09:31, 24 August 2005 (UTC)From a duplicate article at Golden retriever - for review and merging:

Golden Retrievers are a popular breed of medium dog kept as pets. They evolved in Scotland after Lord Tweedmouth crossed the now extinct Tweed Water Spaniel with a wavy-coat yellow retriever in 1868. In 1908, the breed was first exhibited in England, but it was not granted a separate breed status until 1913. In 1920, the name was changed from Retriever (Golden and Yellow) to Golden Retriever. Golden retrievers were first registered in Canada in 1927.

The breed is regarded as obedient and easy to train. For this reason, they are often used as service dogs, and also as gundogs. It is a breed commonly used as guide dogs for the blind. Golden Retrievers are usually friendly with people and other dogs, making them good family pets, but unsuitable as guard dogs. However, their loud bark means they may be kept as watch dogs. Whilst retrievers adapt well to living in a kennel environment, they prefer companionship.

The dogs vary in colour from pale cream to deep gold. They have an average height of 51-61cm and an average weight is 25-36kg. Their litters usually range from six to ten and they can be expected to live ten to 12 years. The most common health problems with this breed involve cataracts, epilepsy and hip problems.

External link

DMOZ listing of websites about Golden Retrievers

You know, this image depicts a retriever whose coat is not too golden. Though undoubtedly a member of the breed, I feel it would be better if someone could provide a photo of a dog more exemplary of the breed. Kent Wang 07:54, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

That is quite a pale one - but still within the specification for the breed (I took the photo at a dog show). More importantly, this was one of my first efforts at taking dog photos and is not as clear or large as I would like. If we get a better (and darker coated) image, this one will do to show the variation in the coat colours though. -- sannse (talk) 09:14, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree. I have on my "list of photos to get while hanging out with dogs" a photo of a Golden with a dark coat. I think it's useful to show the variations in coats because sometimes they look like entirely different breeds! E.g., would be good to have a yellow Flat-Coated Retriever because they look very similar to Goldens and, although some Flat-coat breeders in the U.S. apparently euthanize their yellows, many people do keep them as pets and they're still purebred. Elf | Talk 03:14, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Retriever vs Lab

I've got a Labrador Retriever (guide dog in training) and the article for that breed is very unrepresented compared to the Golden, perhaps we could expand? Sorry, I'm new to Discussions on Wikipedia so I hope this comment is ok! User:PopUpPirate

This comment is fine. Wikipedia encourages people to expand articles! Please do! Find accurate info about the breed of any kind, write it in your own words, and add it to the Labrador Retriever article. All the dog articles grow based on who happens to drop by Wikipedia (like yourself), who has an interest in what, what seems more relevant at the moment perhaps based on the development of related articles, or on any other random factor. So have at it.  :-) Elf | Talk 04:28, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Size and Weight

The article currently says they reach their full height at one and their full weight at two. I agree that they stop growing around one, but when they reach their full weight is a function of how they are fed and exercised. All dogs will gain weight if they are overfed, and many are. The only weight gained after year one should come from muscle mass built from strenuous exercise and higher protein diets. Comments? Wpjonathan 19:04, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree both with your comment about how they should be gaining weight and the observation that that is generally complete around age 2. I don't know that we need to add "unless the dog is overfed and becomes fatter over time." How about something like "...full height at one but continues to mature in in muscle mass and bone structure for roughly another year"? Elf | Talk 20:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


Removing some photos to gallery

This article is starting to collect an overload of photos that don't add anything new. I'm removing a couple to here. Elf | Talk 21:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

  • A patient Golden
    A patient Golden
  • Golden Retriever (5 years old), very gentle
    Golden Retriever (5 years old), very gentle


i think tey are very cuteCorgilover4eva (talk) 23:21, 1 May 2008 (UTC)corgilover4eva

Blind Golden Retrievers

Umm I cant seem to find some Blind Golden retrievers on this web page

Why do we need to have a blind one? --APBTgirl (talk) 19:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

maybe because some people need guide dogs and are wondering?? honestly that was a stupid thing to say —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.20.5.81 (talk) 23:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

oops that comment before this one was mine i wasnt logged in...doh!!Corgilover4eva (talk) 23:22, 1 May 2008 (UTC)corgilover4eva

But guide dogs aren't ever blind themselves....... are they?? Meinsla (talk) 00:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Guide dogs aren't blind! They may lead the blind, but in most cases, the dog itself is able to see. So, I think the original person ment that there should be information on Golden Guide dogs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.171.108 (talk) 19:06, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Being blind, and having owned a blind guide dog, I can confirm that it is not a good idea. In fact, it is like getting a dog and barking yourself. I would suggest that out of all characteristics available to guide dogs, sight should be near the top of the list. As my hearing is perfectly good, I do not know the position regarding assistance dogs for the deaf, although I would imagine it is preferable that they can hear. Thankfully I now have a new dog and I can agree with the person who has posted below regarding the 'odour'. I also thought this was strange. Until I remembered it was a dog. 80.254.147.20 (talk) 17:09, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Small edit

I removed the word "paradoxically"--whomever used it clearly does not know what it means. The fact that very light or very dark Goldens are disallowed is in no way "paradoxical", though one could make a case for it being contradictory (it would be a weak and pedantic argument, however.) --Lode Runner

Images

Is it just me, or is this page becoming overloaded with unencyclopedic, unattractive photos. For example this one, this one (this photo was previously removed, though put back by an IP), and this one. In my opinion, those photos dont't illustrate the breed well, and are cluttering up the page layout. Thus I am removing them, and I may remove this one. Pharaoh Hound 15:19, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

  • One more thought, are there any images of a golden just standing? Pharaoh Hound 15:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I can get a photo of my Golden Bellamy standing at point if anyone would like to see one standing properly... --Allie 02:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Those pictures are nice Retriever pictures,just because they don't reach 'YOUR' Standards doesnt mean that other people wont like them,It appears to me you only know a small amount of information looking at your plan of how many dog pages you wish to change,May I advise using wiki to just browse at dog breeds and allow the more intelligent of people edit pages?
  • First of all, there is no need for personal attacks, at any rate I have learned that most personal attacks are from angry people who feel strongly about an issue and are overreacting. Thus they don't bother me in the slightest, however I advise that you read the civility guidelines. Now then, as for the images, they are all poorly lit, composed, and none of them give a very good idea of what the breed actually looks like, not for lack of good examples of the breed, but for want of composition and lighting that lets one see what the dog looks like. Ask any other Wikipedian who is knowlegable of the standards for image, they will tell you that these images are useless and unencyclopedic. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 11:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


the first person to write on this section you have no respect for other peoples feelings...if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all

hope this settles things...

p.s: those dogs are gorgeous...thanks for shearing them with the world=)202.20.5.81 (talk) 23:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC)doglover101

This is wikipedia. You shouldn't expect people to be nice to you here. We're not striving for universal happiness or something, we're editing an encyclopedia. 83.70.130.113 (talk) 14:17, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Swamp Collie

Just a note. I initially thought that was a bad edit, but then did a search and actually there are hits for swamp collie in reference to Goldies. --Bcsr4ever 08:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Color

I agree that the golden retriever on this page just doesn't look so golden. The gold color of a retriever reflects the way the dog has been properly well taken care of. The dog looks okay in the photo so it definetly is not malnurished, but I've seen retrievers that have a nice cold complextion to them

Interesting? So in your opinion not variation of breed but how well a golden is taken care
of determines the color?76.199.151.150 (talk) 01:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Images (round two)

Once again, this page is overloaded with images. Therefore, I'm taking the liberty of removing a two of the worst ones. The image I'm removing are:

I've also found an image for the infobox with a golden standing, and I have added it. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 14:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


honestly you ARE cold hearted some people dont care how dogs look as long as theyve got the best nature and are very loyal202.20.5.81 (talk) 23:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)doglover101

Removed Pictures

The image of the retriever sitting on a chair watching TV had been inserted under the title “Temperament” and in support of what was stated in that section “They are natural clowns” I believe it does illustrate this aspect of the breed very well.

As far as being “Unappealing” or “Unattractive”: This is your personal opinion, which is very welcome, but from offering your opinion to freely removing material based on it there is a big difference. If everyone removed material from Wikipedia because they “don’t like it”, there would be nothing left, or every article would be butchered.

This is an article about dogs, not photography. Lighting or any other “deficiencies” can be fixed. I believe your intolerance is taking away more than what is providing to this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Calyponte (talk • contribs) .

  • Perhaps I sometimes remove what some might call excessive amounts of photographs, but my view is that for such an insanely common breed wikipedia shouldn't need poor quality photos. This article has quite a few photos, and I removed those ones because there were so many photos that they were clogging up the page layout, if there had been no need to remove photos, I wouldn't have. I'm going to start a gallery to further tidy up the page layout. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 13:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, they didn't add much. They were mostly "Look at my puppy, he's cute!" ~Crowstar~ 01:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I definitely agree. The photos are either horrible quality or the dog in the photo is poorly bred. Although I am sure they are beloved family pets they don't adequately represent the breed. I have many quality photos of quality golden retriever that could better represent the breed if anyone knows how to change them. You can contact me at cowgirl4myking@gmail.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SapphireDreamPhotography (talk • contribs) 15:09, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Temperament

I think that

"Today's Golden Retrievers fall into two groups: show dogs and field dogs. The Goldens in the show group are generally bigger-boned, longer, and heavier. The champagne color and long flowing coat are highly prized in the show ring. On the other hand, field Goldens tend to be smaller, longer legged, and be a more reddish shade. These two strains derive from champion Goldens from the 1960s. Gold Rush Charlie moved the show Goldens toward their present characteristics, while Holway Barty greatly affected the field group. Contemporary breeders attempt to unite these two strains into the all-purpose Golden Retriever."

should not be under the temperament section. Unfortunately, I am no K9 expert, and I would rather have someone with more knowledge put it where it really belongs. 68.127.209.93 04:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Pharaoh, can you please tell me why you have reverted back to having the above quote in the temperament section. It obviously does not belong there. And it would be nice if you justified your reversion. I am going to have to put it back to appearence section, as it seems like that is where it belongs. Delmet 05:31, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

  • My mistake, I didn't realise I was reverting that out. My sincere apologies, and I shall avoid doing so in the future. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 13:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
    • No problem. Mistakes happen. Delmet 21:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

"Yellow Retriever" fails Google test

"The Golden Retriever is a popular breed of dog, often affectionately known as a Yellow Retriever." ---- I've never heard the expression "Yellow Retriever". It gets only 624 Google hits. http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Yellow+Retriever%22 ("Golden Retriever" gets 1,850,000 hits.) - IMHO, this doesn't even justify including the term as "sometimes known" or "occasionally known". Therefore, deleting from article. If you wish to revert, please justify here. Thanks. ---- 201.51.211.130 12:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. YR is not common.--Counsel 19:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
See Russian tracker. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:40, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Images - 3

In my opinion, these six images as they currently appear don't seem to be suitable. While first one is a matter of personal opinion, I have legitimate concerns about the other shots. The second one seems a little too close, and doesn't give more information compared to the 2-month old (on the article). Third image seems to place focus on the bandage rather than the retriever. 4-6 appear to be the same dog. Okay to remove? --Sigma 7 05:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with removing those. In fact, the gallery appears to be a lot attracting unuseful photos. Perhaps it should be removed? --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


for my opinion// i think they are very loveable and easy to handel. r.neely. ontaro

Temperament Change

This is rare. Is it worth mentioning? http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/guide-dog-in-puppy-mauling-frenzy/2007/03/21/1174153161861.html 203.213.7.133 21:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


Thriving

"thrive on attention, regular exercise, a balanced diet, and regular veterinary check-ups." Do they seriously thrive on regular vet check-ups? i think that is a unnecessary statement 03:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit

If your dog's photo is missing, check to make sure it wasn't simply moved. But if it wasn't moved, I removed it for a good reason; don't put it back, please. --Otheus 00:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

images

I reverted to the original infobox image. No sufficient reason was given why the new one was a better illustration of the breed (also remember that this article is not a vehicle for asserting the primacy of AKC/UKC standards), and the original was of better quality photographically (clearer background, better expression, looks more professional). I also removed the guide dog photo bc, while it would be nice to have a photo of GRs as guide dogs, the image was stacked (see WP:Images) and as an overhead shot it was confusing and not clear that it even was a golden. I moved the presidential image to avoid more image stacking and text conflict as it was rather large. Overall I wanted to avoid something discouraged by WP:Images and WP:IUP, which is stacking a whole bunch of images one on top of the other the whole length of the article. It looks awful. VanTucky 18:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

HISTORY PICTURE REMOVAL

Why was my picture of the nine week old golden retriever puppy was taken off AND replaced with a labrador retriever fetching a duck in a lake? This is ridiculous! Please correct this immediately! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.137.67.246 (talk • contribs)

The replacement image better fits in with the article, showing the retriever and giving a quick description of their roots. A simple nine-week old image isn't really that encyclopediatic - and also there was bulk removal of gallary-style images (as you should have seen from the discussion above.) --Sigma 7 03:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

oh my gosh, whatever. its funny two other Wiki professional "page watchers" said it was fine. thanks for all you do, you rent-a-cop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.137.67.246 (talk • contribs)

And as I said, the image was replaced with something "better" than "fine". The original simply showed an image with a basic caption, while the replacement showed an image with a detailed caption. Also, making personal attacks is a common symptom of those who think that Wikipedia is a Myspace provider. --Sigma 7 21:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Article seems to have a negative slant towards the breed.

Go post it on a Golden Retriever site. I believe there's a pet wiki somewhere out there that would be glad to take it. I'm sorry, but it was taken off for a reason: the new one shows the retriever-ness. Crowstarcaws 01:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Images

Would anyone mind if I add this image to the main wiki page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omniii (talk • contribs)

It depends on where you want to put it. It's a quality image, and in my opinion would be good somewhere in the body of the article (such as the Hisory section). But a lead image (in the infobox) should be a neutral portrait that clearly shows all of the subject in a natural stance. The running image doesn't do this like the present one does. VanTucky (talk) 16:13, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

What if it was added to the Coat and Color section? Seems to be fitting as it is an unusually colored dog and the coat is shown nicely in my opinion. Omniii 20:42, 6 August 2007 (UTC)Omniii

♣== List of Dogs that don't bite ==

Are Golden Retrievers the top of the list of dogs that don't bite? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.142.46 (talk) 17:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Bred for their high fowl mandibular delicacy yes, very high on the list Gropo (talk) 04:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Odor

I have a Golden, and there are days when we consider having her live in the garage until someone can give her a bath. I've discussed this with other owners (including those who live in other parts of the country w/ different climates) and they have encountered the same problem; several (who'd been dog owners of other breeds for years)even took their Goldens to the vet as puppies thinking that the pup must have some sort of skin/ear infection. There's a Catch-22 here though-that would be original rsearch, and the fact that a typical, relatively clean Golden frequently gives off the sort of odor where the backyard is checked for decomposing animals that said Golden could have rolled in is not prominently featured in dog books. If anyone knows of a source, either add it to the article, or contact me on my talk page to let me know where I could find said info.LeeRamsey (talk) 03:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Dock jumping

Just added Dock jumping hope nobody has a problem with that.--gd8man 04:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Family Pet Sentence

Although goldens are great family pets, these lines seem to paired illogically: "They are great athletes and must be walked daily, or they will become restless and anxious. This makes them an ideal family pet." --Tornvmax (talk) 01:34, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


Golden Retriever bites

I saw on TV that Goldens have the 3rd highest bite rate behind the German Shepherd and Chow Chow, and that they should be taught early not to bite. Should we make mention of this? It might be a good idea for anyone who might want a Golden and have children. Mokoniki (talk) 21:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)Mokoniki

Yes Because most people thinkthey are perfect and dont need to be trained. CarbriniTek 11-8-09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by CarbriniTek (talk • contribs) 16:44, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

First of all DON"T believe everything on TV!! Second.. Goldens naturally have a "soft month" Goldens are great with children. Also why do you think Goldens are the choice for service dogs??gd8man 17:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gd8man (talk

I have added a few words on Golden Retriever attacks with a source. There is no such thing as a dog with a naturally "soft mouth". This is something modern dog trainers are upset to hear is still believed (I used to be a trainer not long ago). You can only train a dog not to bite. This is true for all breeds no matter how big or small. Goodyfun (talk) 09:43, 14 March 2010 (UTC)Goodyfun

Sure there is soft mouth... you can call it a natural trait or breed that way, because they are bird dogs.I am a field trial trainer and have trained or help trained many Goldens for trial, soft mouth is not something that needs to be taught. gd8man 06:14, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Removed quote: Here is the article it was referred to..

During the past 20 years, at least 25 breeds of dog have been involved in 230 human fatalities. Pit-Bull type dogs and Rottweilers were identified as being involved in 66 and 39 fatalities over that 20-year period; however, the remainder of fatalities were caused by other purebreds and crossbreeds" (AVMA).

"Since 1979, dogs belonging to more than 30 breeds have been responsible for fatal attacks on people, including Dachshunds, Newfoundlands, Golden Retrievers, a Yorkshire Terrier and a Labrador Retriever," Dr. Gail Golab, Assistant Director of the AVMA Education and Research Division.

I think before it is included in the article better facts should be referenced.gd8man 06:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gd8man (talk • contribs)

I felt there was, and still is room for this article to grow stronger neutrality because it suggests absolutely no training needs to be done to get some sort of magical perfect dog, which there is no such thing as. http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/media-reporting-of-canine-aggression.pdf

It is that sort of fallacy that puts not a small percentage of animals in shelters by people who didn't know what to expect when they let them into their homes. I also feel like it is unnecessary to use the phrase "eagerness to please" three times throughout the article. Since you've (Gd8man) trained this breed, would you mind offering a suggestion on how to mention training shouldn't be taken lightly? 70.226.164.26 (talk) 09:53, 18 March 2010 (UTC)Goodyfun

I agree with you there is no "perfect dog" and that all dogs need some or alot of training.But I don't think this article needs to be a "How To", it should be "about" the breed. If people need to train a dog they should look up "Dog Training"

I also feel like it is unnecessary to use the phrase "eagerness to please" three times throughout the article. Do you also think "retriever,loves water, ect." (as in retrieving objects) should only be mentioned one time? All are what makes the breed what it is.gd8man 19:58, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Brazilian site about Golden Retriever.

This Brazilian site: [Jornal do Brasil] has a short article about this race of dog.Agre22 (talk) 14:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC)agre22

Not-so-fast whitening

"The darker a Golden Retriever is in color, the faster it will whiten." I am not convinced of the accuracy of this statement. My 13 year old mahogany had very little whitening, while I have seen eight year olds with very light coats and much more whitening. I recommend removing this statement. 75.11.33.79 (talk) 15:04, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

English Cream Golden Retriever

Does anyone own an English cream? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.118.244.244 (talk) 21:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I have a pot of Elmlea if that would help? 80.254.147.20 (talk) 13:38, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I have an English cream, do you need a high res photo for the site? Ruckus77 (talk) 18:29, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I am in the company of two English (British) Cream Golden Retrievers. A male (Milo) and a female (Riki), both have bloodlines from Eastern Europe and conform to the British type. Lots of high resolution dog pictures available, though not significantly different than others already posted are available for public use at https://www.facebook.com/milos.synazkamilla/photos. My male is afflicted with ichthyosis, which is an autosomal recessive genetic trait apparently common in European bloodlines but relatively unknown or latent/undiscovered in American bloodlines. Keratogenic shampoo is excellent for treating this incurable condition. I'd also like to have ichthyosis added to the Common health problems section.[1] Whammyster (talk) 10:50, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3334879/pdf/nihms368076.pdf

Grooming

I removed the following section (with this edit);

Golden Retrievers under adult age generally need less grooming care than adult dogs, but if a large amount of time is spent on grooming, a puppy will more likely tolerate adult grooming. Grooming tools include guillotine nail clippers or nail filers (particularly motored), slicker and pin brushes, and a grooming comb. Golden Retrievers do well bathing once every week or every two weeks, and they will shed minimally if brushed quickly everyday. Golden Retrievers shed moderately to heavily, shedding year round and particularly in spring and early summer.

Reason for removal: Non-neutral, not referenced, appears to be original research, inappropriate tone, see WP:WEASEL.  Chzz  ►  12:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Common Health Problems - Lyme Disease??

Lyme disease can only be contracted from ticks. How common it is depends on firstly if that species of tick is even where you live, as not all ticks carry it, and secondly, those ticks have to be infected. Many areas have the ticks, but no Lyme disease, thus in many areas it is completely absent. Even if these vectors are present, it also depends on how much you go into wooded areas, as Lyme disease is not present in cities, where most people are. It has nothing to do with a particular breed. Why would it? Source being I'm a veterinary technician. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease 70.50.190.4 (talk) 17:13, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Idahoev, 21 July 2011

Please change intro text (bold shows changes). from: 

 and are the fourth most popular family dog breeds (by registration) in the United States,[4]

to: 

 and are the fifth most popular family dog breed (by registration) in the United States,[4]

Explanation: (Aside from the grammar fix): Reference #4 has been updated since last retrieval in 2007, text is no longer accurate. As of 2010, the Golden Retriever is 5th (not 4th) most commonly registered AKC dog breed in the US. Text should be changed to reflect this in the introduction, and the retrieval date for the reference should be updated. The reference URL for reference #4 is still valid.

Idahoev (talk) 01:53, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Done Updated Jnorton7558 (talk) 02:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

As of 2011 the Golden Retriever is now the fourth most popular breed again. Wiki article be changed back.

Way too many pictures

I think there should be a cleanup on how many images are in this article. Broden (talk) 13:30, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Golden Retrievers

hey i am doing a report on dogs do you have any information on Golden Retrievers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.156.101 (talk) 20:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Golden retriever -> Golden Retriever

golden retrievers -> Golden Retrievers (I'm not sure about this, but the rest of the page is capitalised so it's best to be consistent, right?)

waelthy -> wealthy

(The whole top section of the article is not right stylistically, but I'm sure that's better handled by someone with more experience than me, is there somewhere I can make that request?)

Done. Thanks for pointing out the cap and spelling problems. RudolfRed (talk) 00:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 January 2013

Please add Category Dog Breeds. Golden Retriever is missing from Category:Dog breeds page.

change from 

 [[Category:Sporting dogs]]

to 

 [[Category:Dog breeds]]
 [[Category:Sporting dogs]]

95.72.148.100 (talk) 19:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

 Not done Golden retrievers is already in the category Category:Sporting dogs which is a sub-category of Category:Sporting dogs - MrX 20:19, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
The guideline WP:CAT states "each categorized page should be placed in all of the most specific categories to which it logically belongs." I believe that the categorization on the pages that you referenced has been incorrectly done. - MrX 19:01, 17 January 2013 (UTC)


FWI I LOVE GOLDEN RETRIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Singdanceact4him (talk • contribs) 05:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

People

I think people are created in the image of the one God of the universe the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We did not start as little blobs of stuff floating in the ocean. We started out as real human beings then sinning against God then we became sinful bad people but God can help us obey him. ---Anonumoys — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.92.10 (talk) 15:38, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 May 2013

A link needs to be made in the history section between the wavy coated retriever reference and the flat coated retriever. The wavy coat and flat coat are the same dog. It is just that when the records where taken the flat coated retriever wasn't called that as it wasn't recognised as a breed until around the 1870s and officially recognised by the AKC in 1915. Reference Flat Coated Retrieving Club. 122.151.25.154 (talk) 00:30, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

 Question: Could you please provided a source for the requested edit? Many thanks - MrX 00:53, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Labrador Retriever which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:58, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I love this golden retriever because it's fur is super nice

is this grammar right I love this golden retriever because it's fur is super nice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.190.59.169 (talk) 06:51, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

No 147.114.44.201 (talk) 14:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

The information under the heading "In Scotland" is outdated:

"In July 2006, the Golden Retriever Club of Scotland organized a gathering of Golden Retriever enthusiasts at the ancestral home of Guisachan House. A photograph was taken by photographer Lynn Kipps to commemorate the occasion. It captures 188 Golden Retrievers, so holds the record for most Golden Retrievers captured in one image."

The source for this shows an updated picture with more dogs at a more recent gathering. This is also mentioned earlier in the article: "One such organisation is the Golden Retriever Club of Scotland, which in August 2013 assembled 222 Golden Retrievers at the historical home of the first Golden Retrievers."

155.91.28.231 (talk) 21:26, 6 January 2014 (UTC)Mike 06JAN2014

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2014

The sentence "American Golden Retrievers is taller than the British type, but retains its thick coat." should be corrected. They are taller, not is. AtroxMavenia (talk) 15:27, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for pointing that out. --NeilN talk to me 15:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Edit weight of females 9/23/2015

The weight range of the female golden according to AKC is 55-65 lbs not 60-70lbs — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yellowrose3502 (talk • contribs) 23:05, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2016

Please change the broken link http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/golden/goldenarticle1.htm to http://www.ckc.ca/en/Files/Breed-Standards/Breed-Standards/Group-1-Sporting/RTG-Retriever-Golden which is the standard on the CKC website Prettyriver (talk) 01:19, 23 February 2016 (UTC) Prettyriver (talk) 01:19, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Done. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:11, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2016

I should have checked all the links when checking the Canadian one. The UK link does not give a 404 error but is broken. Please change: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/108 to http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=2047 This occurs in two places reference 12 and the standards links

I also am still getting the 404 error on the link under standards to the Canadian standard. Looks like the old link occurred in references and in the standards section. old is http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/golden/goldenarticle1.htm s/b https://www.ckc.ca/en/Files/Forms/Shows-Trials/Breed-Standards/Group-1-Sporting/RTG-Retriever-Golden


It looks like some of the other links in the references are also out dated. The GRCA made extensive changes to their website recently. I will try to pull it all together. There are also other changes that would involve re-writing some sections but those are improvements that we should discuss.

Thanks Prettyriver (talk) 13:04, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Prettyriver (talk) 12:48, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Done @Prettyriver: Thank you for finding updated links. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 23:46, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
@Prettyriver: Forgot to mention, you can always find archived versions of pages to add to the article if you are unable to find current versions. The most common place to find them is the "WayBack Machine" at archive.org/web. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 23:47, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Revision of the section on types

The section 'Characteristics' with sub headings of British type, American type and Canadian type would really benefit from re-working. I am a Golden Retriever breeder and active in several area with my dogs. I have contacted the Golden Retriever Club of America and the Golden Retriever Club of Canada for some help. The different styles of Golden (especially in North America)do not correspond to nationalities. Dogs breed for the show ring and dogs bred for field work have diverged somewhat but they are all one breed and there are quite a few breeders looking to produce dogs that look good and have working ability. There is also confusion because some North American breeders are producing 'English Creme' Goldens for puppy sales and these dogs are quite different in appearance from most of the 'British' dogs bred in Great Britain, and the rest of Europe. To add to that, a lot of Canadian breeders are using both North American lines and European lines in their breeding programs. Goldens are also popular in Australia and New Zealand and breeders there have made important contributions to the breed. My hope is that we will be able to produce a section that explains this without becoming either too long or too technical. --Prettyriver (talk) 01:13, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2016

The link for the Australian standard is broken In the box in the upper right, it is http://www.ankc.aust.com/goldret.html but should be http://ankc.org.au/Breed/Detail/72

Reference 14 at the end of the article http://grca.org/pec/whitegolden.html is no longer available. On the GRCA (Golden Retriever Club of America)website, it has been replaced by https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/articles/english-cream-golden-retrievers/ which does not exactly support the statement referencing it but it does address the issue in depth.

Reference 15 I am not sure what is wrong with the structure of this. The link to the AKC standard is correct.

Reference 18 http://ankc.org.au/_uploads/docs/23114GoldenRetrieverBSE.pdf is now http://www.grcv.org.au/images/Breed%20Standard%20of%20the%20Golden%20Retriever/Extended%20Breed%20Standard%20of%20the%20GoldenRetriever.pdf

Reference 24 link is broken https://www.grca.org/acquiring.htm#hereditary should be replaced by https://www.grca.org/find-a-golden/begin-the-search/health-issues-introduction-section-a/

Reference 26 link is broken http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/breeds/goldenretriever2.htm should be replaced by http://ic.upei.ca/cidd/breed/golden-retriever

Reference 27 the link is broken http://www.grca.org/health/hemophilia.html but this reference is a reference to hemophilia in Goldens https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/health-research/bleeding-disorders-in-golden-retrievers/

Reference 38 is a broken link http://www.grca.org/history/default.htm this link provides information about the founding of the Golden Retriever Club of Ontario and its successor the Golden Retriever Club of Canada (GRCC) http://grcc.net/index.php/grcc-history/

Prettyriver (talk) 21:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Done - Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia  fredgandt 01:04, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Golden Retriever/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

More refs would help, especially in the health and history sections. More about care should be added (e.g. grooming needs, more on exercise, dog sports, training etc). --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 14:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 16:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 16:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2016

Some nutter who seems to be able to edit protected articles has changed every instance of 'dog' to 'doggo'. Might want to deal with this!

81.131.181.47 (talk) 20:48, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

 Fixed General Ization Talk 20:57, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 May 2016

 Not done - Sorry, we can't include personal reflections or other unsourced content in this encyclopedia article.- MrX 15:15, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2016

What find new weight. Size medium? Large? Medium-large? Id say medium-large Please follow this.


2607:FB90:139A:D22C:15D4:E4D5:6A6D:E1B3 (talk) 12:20, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2016



2607:FB90:139A:D22C:15D4:E4D5:6A6D:E1B3 (talk) 12:19, 1 August 2016 (UTC) Weight 55-75 pounds briefly

 Not done Please get a source that matches with it. KGirlTrucker81 talk what I'm been doing 12:30, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Article Review

I think this was a really good article. There were a large amount of references and the references were not plagiarized. The article remained unbiased the entire time. Chem2017 (talk) 01:14, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Review of the article "Golden Retriever"

I found this article overall very good, but here are some things I noticed/some suggestions.

Under the “In Scotland” section, it is mentioned that the club took a picture with the most golden retrievers that are within one picture. Maybe the link to this picture could be added by adding it to the references for it (#39). The link on the references takes you the club website but the picture is not right there.

Under the “In England” and “In the United States” sections, there are no sources cited. Where did this information come from? The link for the Kennel Club of England would also be nice since there is a link for the American Kennel Club.

Under most sections, there are pictures. These pictures add a nice touch to the article but where did the information below them come from? Some of them have long explanations that go with them (for example the health and lifespan & common health problems sections) but there is no source cited.

The link to source #21 is not accessible and the proper citation for #16 is missing, it only has a link and that link also is not accessible.


Hope this is helpful to the article! Thanks for a great read from an avid golden retriever lover.

--Pawlow44 (talk) 19:39, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Pawlow44, To answer a few of your concerns:
The captions below the pictures could probably stand to be trimmed, and everything except the lead needs to be sourced. One thing that stands out to me is the bit about Lyme disease. All dogs can get Lyme, and unless we have statistics saying Golden Retrievers are more prone to it than others, I'd take it out.
As said above, everything except the lead should be sourced (often captions for pictures aren't cited, because they are supposed to sum up the text). If you have an interest in this breed, I'd encourage you to try to find and add sources. The AKC Dog Book is a good one to cite, as is the national breed club's publications. Google Books should also have a lot of reliable sources. White Arabian Filly Neigh 21:50, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Interesting possible additions

It would be interesting to know:

1) What effects does Distemper have on Goldens? Because they tend to be more of a social breed, is it considered a common disease and health concern to them compared to less social breeds?

2) Why did it take 14 years for this breed to be recognized in America? Was it some process that the American Kennel Club needed approved?

Great article on a significant breed in the U.S.! Iadowty (talk) 01:37, 24 September 2016 (UTC)Isabel Dowty

1: Most dogs now are vaccinated against distemper as puppies, so I wouldn't think it's that common in any breed. I don't have Goldens though, and it might be worth looking it up. The national breed club might have something about this on its website.
2: It might have been that there were very few Goldens in America at first. I know that now you must have a national breed club and so many breeders raising a particular kind of dog in order to get it AKC recognized. Maybe it was the same back then. White Arabian Filly Neigh 21:19, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Field Goldens

There should be a section on Field Golden Retrievers. Those are much more different than the English, American and Canadian types (if those even are meaningful sub-types? I usually se a spectrum of all those types in most countries). Misterantrop (talk) 20:13, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

More Colours and Characteristics

There are a lot more colours than just dark golden to light golden. Some other colours are; white and red. I think the writer would of had time to include that they had webbed feet like all the other retriever types. They also failed to mention that they were bred by Lord Tweetmouth ( Tweetmouth is a nickname of the real breeder that most people use to name him ). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.232.72.5 (talk) 08:58, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2017

Under temperament, after "Their trusting, gentle disposition makes them a poor guard dog.[21]", please add "However, they may bark when strangers approach the house." 2607:FEA8:1D5F:F3D5:3CAA:C497:58A0:B091 (talk) 18:15, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 19:53, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2018

(2nd paragraph under "Common health problems") They may suffer from heart disease, especially subvalvular aortic stenosis,[29] and cardiomyopathy and joint diseases, including patella luxation, osteochondritis, panosteitis, and cruciate ligament rupture. In addition to the heavy shedding they experience (and their constant lighter shedding throughout the year), Golden Retrievers can suffer from skin diseases; the most prevalent skin problem is allergies (often leading to acute moist dermatitis or "hot spots"), with the most common allergy being to fleas.[26] They can also suffer from seborrhoea, sebaceous adenitis, self-inflicted lick granuloma, and haemophilia.[32] (X) Golden retrievers may also suffer from seizures. Through electro-encephalographic (EEG) testing in a litter of golden retrievers, it was documented that this dog breed, at the age of full development, can contract seizures. The EEG risk assessment of idiopathic epilepsy is helpful in determining the health of a golden retriever offspring. (x) Please add (x). [1] Karentavarez (talk) 18:03, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

That reference is more useful for a vet who wants to screen a dog - i.e. that deep anesthesia doesn't appear to suppress the varying amplitude spindles that can be indicative of epilepsy. This is like confirming an abnormal heart using an EKG or a echocardiogram. The test doesn't tell you have many bad hearts are out there, only that it is a useful tool. A different reference would be more helpful in discussing the scope of the problem, and since WP isn't a technical journal, I'm not sure it is an appropriate addition to the article. Here is a link to the complete reference: https://eurekamag.com/pdf/002/002876917.pdf MartinezMD (talk) 21:50, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Srenk, P., and A. Jaggy. “Interictal Electroencephalographic Findings in a Family of Golden Retrievers with Idiopathic Epilepsy.” The Canadian Journal of Chemical Engineering, Wiley-Blackwell, 28 June 2008, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1748-5827.1996.tb02398.x.

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2018

Please copy "The Golden Retriever was originally bred in Scotland in the mid-19th century" to the lede somewhere, maybe after (soft mouth) Mustsclue (talk) 14:20, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

While I'm here, can you link Mobility assistance dog too please. Mustsclue (talk) 14:25, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

 Partly done. I added the link, but will let someone else decide on the change to the lead. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:40, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DBigXrayᗙ 15:01, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, that sentence is already in the article with sources under origins and history Mustsclue (talk) 15:03, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
 Done and Mustsclue, thank you for the suggestion! Galobtter (pingó mió) 15:12, 23 October 2018 (UTC)


Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2019

Please edit the image caption/infobox, to change the origin from England to Scotland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:110:8012:1010:718C:31D5:E73F:45A0 (talk) 11:50, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

 Done - with this edit. Thank you. Begoon 11:57, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Cute

Golden Retrievers are so cute! I have a Golden Retriever on my Nintendogs+Cats game! PencilmationFan999 (talk) 01:04, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Record image

In July 2006, the Golden Retriever Club of Scotland organized a gathering of Golden Retriever enthusiasts at the ancestral home, Guisachan House. A photograph taken by photographer Lynn Kipps to commemorate the occasion captured 188 Golden Retrievers, and so holds the record for the most Golden Retrievers in one image.[43]

The record was beaten in 2018 when 361 golden retrievers gathered in Guisanach House to celebrate 150th anniversary of the breed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.116.142 (talk) 20:01, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2019

It says medium-large in one of the sections so it's medium-large. Verminous Davis (talk) 17:11, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done with this edit. Thank you for pointing that out. Begoon 17:46, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2020

Add the word beautiful somewhere Guntherline (talk) 02:15, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Wikipedia isn't for recording opinions (unless you can provide a reliable source which suggests that Golden retrievers are considered to be significantly more beautiful the other "average" dogs). RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 02:32, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

2001:8003:88EF:1B00:588C:EC17:C1DB:5704 (talk) 12:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC)rffhvhvhgh
 Not done: --TheImaCow (talk) 13:00, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Age span

Range differs in info box and text.--2604:2000:E010:1100:202C:27A0:6092:E81C (talk) 06:30, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Charlie's loud bark

Should this be added to the "Notable Dogs" section? Seaotter26705 (talk) 20:55, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

No. Cavalryman (talk) 05:02, 13 February 2021 (UTC).

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Buffy2021 (talk • contribs) 17:02, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 January 2021 and 30 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Buffy2021. Peer reviewers: Ajones0413, ToriCheer18.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2021

replace "but its temperament has also made it the third-most popular family dog breed (by registration) in the United States,[1]" with "but its temperament has also made it the third-most popular family dog breed (by registration) in the United States and Canada,[2][3]" 2001:569:FA6A:8C00:B583:94E3:A0C8:B067 (talk) 15:13, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

All set. Thanks! ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:44, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "AKC Dog Registration Statistics". AKC.org. Retrieved July 20, 2011.
  2. ^ "AKC Dog Registration Statistics". AKC.org. Retrieved July 20, 2011.
  3. ^ https://www.ckc.ca/en/News/2016/February/Canadian-Kennel-Club-Announces-Canada-Top-10. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Health and Lifespan

Out of curiosity, why is is necessary to have references to the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and PennHIP-- both American organisations, in the section regarding Hip dysplasia for an animal that is a popular global breed? Talking about having pups checked for Hip dysplasia specifically by organisations located in Missouri and Pennsylvania (resp) is unnecessary and is otherwise irrelevant to anyone not living in those states or the US, again, for a breed of dog renowned for it's popularity around the world. (14.2.67.94 (talk) 15:40, 18 July 2021 (UTC))

Proposed new picture of a 9-year old Golden Retriever

Should this picture be added in the Health and Lifespan section? File:Golden Retriever 9-year old.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdelamaza (talk • contribs) 23:39, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

 Note: I'm closing the request, as this is the start of a discussion rather than a specific requested edit. Feel free to discuss on this section. Also you've got a mighty fine dog. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:57, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. I can't edit the article myself as my account is not confirmed yet. Feel free to use the picture in the article if you deem it appropiate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdelamaza (talk • contribs) 01:20, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2021

The line X "The Golden Retriever is a medium-large gun dog that was bred to retrieve shot waterfowl, such as ducks and upland game birds, during hunting and shooting parties.[3]" Is incorrect. They weren't bred for waterfowl, which is one of the reasons goldens often show an aversion to holding and carrying ducks. Instead they were bred for upland game and deer. The source, directly from the Guisachan, the brith place of the Golden Retriever. Should be Y "The Guisachan dogs were bred to be strong working dogs hunting grouse, partridge and deer." https://friendsofguisachan.org/main/guisachan-dogs/ Jhanlauf (talk) 17:54, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

 Done - PianoDan (talk) 18:15, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:NOTGUIDE Re-phrase the last sentence of Health and lifespan section

The last sentence of the section Health and Lifespan currently reads as follows:

"Puppies should eat about three cups of food a day and adults three to five cups, depending on the food and how active the dog is."

Wiki-content should not be phrased like this as it will contradict WP:NOTGUIDE. Rather, the sentence, I propose, should be edited as follows:

"Puppies are recommended[according to whom?] to be fed 3 cups of food a day and adults are recommended to be fed 3-5 cups, depending on the food and how active the dog is."

The current version sounds as an advice from Wikipedia itself while Wikipedia does not advice anything. It can just narrate the consensus on what is advised. --81.213.215.83 (talk) 05:59, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Hello IP, I agree the section was terribly worded and worse, terribly or unsourced. I have stripped it of everything unsourced or uniquely cited to unreliable sources. Cavalryman (talk) 07:04, 17 December 2021 (UTC).
Hello, thank you, Cavalryman. I saw the current version and it seems it would be better if the content of the section "Common health problems" are merged into the "Health and Lifespan" section. Those two sentences can be merged into a single section though I would say even the current version does not have problem. --81.213.215.83 (talk) 18:25, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Golden Retriever/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kpddg (talk · contribs) 14:58, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


Hello Cavalryman. I will be be GA reviewing this article in the coming days. Please contact me for any problems. Thank You. Kpddg (talk) 14:58, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Section-wise Assessment

Lead Section

  • Lead section is fine

History

 Done although I am keen to the thoughts of a second reviewer. 9 Jan 22.
  • 'Prior to the publication Marjoribanks' meticulously' Why is there an apostrophe after his name?
minus Removed, it has been reworded. 9 Jan 22.
  • 'Prior to the publication Marjoribanks' meticulously maintained and very detailed stud book in 1952, a number of romantic tales were published stating the breed descends from among other things a troupe of Russian circus dogs that performed in Brighton in the 1860s, but the records tell a different story.' Revise this sentence; it is difficult to understand
 Done, I have cut half of the sentence away. 9 Jan 22.
  • 'In the 1860s Marjoribanks set out with a complicated line breeding plan in mind to create what to his mind was the ultimate breed of retriever at his Scottish estate Guisachan.' This sentence is again too long and complicated.
 Done, with a complicated line breeding plan in mind has been removed. 9 Jan 22.
  • 'It is the pedigree of Nous that became the source for the romantic tales of the Golden Retriever's heritage, one early account claimed he was purchased from a Russian circus trainer in Brighton, another account claimed a cobbler in Brighton, and yet another claimed a gypsy; but Marjoribanks' stud book states Nous was a Flat-coated Retriever bred by Lord Chichester on his nearby Stanmer Park estate.' Same problem as above
 Done, sentence split. 9 Jan 22.
  • This section needs a lot of revision. The prose and sentence-formation is too complicated and long. It includes too much complex detail. This can be confusing for many readers.
Question? I have made a number of amendments, I would appreciate the thoughts of a second reviewer. 9 Jan 22.

Description

Appearance
  • The Kennel Club has been linked too many times. No need to link it here in the first sentence.
 Done. 8 Jan 22.
  • 'The coat's colour can be any shade of cream, yellow or golden, the Kennel Club's breed standard states red or mahogany are prohibited but a few white hairs on the chest are permitted.' Once again, sentence is long and complex
 Done. 8 Jan 22.
  • 'As Golden Retrievers age their coats typically lighten in colour.' Add comma after age.
 Done. 8 Jan 22.
  • This section's prose too has to be made a lot better.
Question? I believe I have cleared it up. 8 Jan 22.
Temperament
  • 'This means that they are typically a year older than Labradors when they are ready to be used as gundogs in the field.'
 Done. 8 Jan 22.
  • 'The Golden Retriever is one of the Western world's most recognisable and poplar companion dog breeds, regularly being ranked in the top five dog breeds by a number of registrations in the United Kingdom, the United States, Australia and Canada.'
 Not done I am happy to discuss alternate wording but I am not sure that is an improvement. 8 Jan 22.

Popularity and Uses

  • Golden Retriever is not mentioned in reference 13
checkY That is my mistake, I was juggling multiple alternate sources and I clearly selected the wrong one, it is interesting that it contradicts other sources. I have added a new source. 8 Jan 22.
  • 'Compared to other retriever breeds, the Golden Retriever is not considered a particularly strong swimmer, because of their long coats they tend to sit quite low in the water and they are considered less suited as a wildfowl hunting dog than it is for retrieving land-based gamebirds like grouse and partridge.' Shorten sentence
 Done. 8 Jan 22.
  • 'One reason the breed is less popular than the Labrador for field use is they are generally slower to mature; when a Golden Retriever is still in basic training a Labrador may have already had a season in the field.' Sentence can be formatted in a better way
 Done. 8 Jan 22.
  • 'Additionally it can be hard for sportsmen to find pups bred from proven working lines because of the far greater numbers Golden Retrievers bred as pets or for the show ring.' Improve.
 Done. 8 Jan 22.

Health

  • Fine after I corrected a couple of minor grammatical errors

Notable Golden Retrievers

  • Put the two different dogs in different bullet points
 Done. 8 Jan 22.

Final Decision

Given the issues raised in the above review, this article requires significant editing and updating before it can be considered again for GA status. I doubt whether this can be done in a few days. Rrefer to other similar good articles as well. So please do re-nominate once all the issues are resolved. Thank You. Kpddg (talk) 10:12, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Fail:

· · ·


This article is failed.

Second opinion requested

I feel a second review is warranted from an experienced editor as no opportunity was afforded to rectify the issues raised. Per discussion at WT:Good article nominations#Second opinion requested: Golden Retriever I have reopened this review. Cavalryman (talk) 00:10, 9 January 2022 (UTC).

I have made significant amendments to the article to rectify the issues raised by the previous reviewer. On their TP they have committed to not review any more GANs until they have gained some experience on the project [1]. Cavalryman (talk) 23:55, 10 January 2022 (UTC).
I think you should simply open a new nomination: insert a fresh nomination template as if you would nominate it for the first time, and change the page parameter to "2" so that it is on a separate page. The way you do it now is out of process and might cause technical problems. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:51, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Jens Lallensack, I agree that would probably be the easiest course of action, but per the discussion at WT:Good article nominations/Archive 25#Another new reviewer causing problems (about the same reviewer) I feel that would be endorsing the first review. So, as with Talk:George H. W. Bush broccoli comments/GA1, I would like this article to be judged on its merits. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 21:11, 11 January 2022 (UTC).
Ah I see. I may take this over, and will proceed tomorrow. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 21:27, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Many thanks. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 21:32, 11 January 2022 (UTC).
  • with some infusions of Red Setter, Labrador Retriever and Bloodhound blood. – I'm worried that people may take this literally. It might be safer to reformulate?
 Removed.
  • In 1903 the Kennel Club recorded the first examples, they were recorded in the same register as the Flat-coats. – the prose is not great; at the very least, we need a ";" (or, alternatively, a "–") instead of ","
 Reworked I have reworked the sentence to In 1903 the Kennel Club recorded the first examples, listing them in the same register as Flat-coats.
  • In 1911 a breed club was formed for the breed and they were given a new name, the 'Yellow or Golden Retriever', from this point they were seen as a separate breed from the Flat-coated Retriever – This seems a bit weak. First, it is very unspecific (which breed club? where?), and second, the second part is obviously not correct because the Kennel Club didn't follow it?
 Reworked I have added the breed club’s name and location and added increasingly to the second half of the sentence. It is not unusual for a kennel club to lag a little behind popular understanding but please let me know if you would like it further reworked.
  • In 1920 the 'Yellow or' was dropped from the breed's became known as the 'Golden Retriever' colloquially, or the 'Retriever (Golden)' to the Kennel Club.[5] – Something missing here?
 Reworked I have removed the entire reference to the Kennel Club using an archaic internal naming process, it extends well beyond this breed and I agree, it just adds confusion.
  • Mrs – we usually don't use such attributes in Wikipedia.
 Removed, I had thought twice about including it and initially decided to because literally every mention in every source I have seen, both cited here and not included, includes the “Mrs”.
  • One early enthusiast of the breed, Mrs Winifred Charlesworth – this paragraph needs dates.
 Done
  • Golden Retriever's good looks – remove the "good", which is puffery.
 Removed
  • The Canadian Kennel Club recognised the breed in 1927, the American Kennel Club in 1932, the first examples were registered in France in 1934 and Australia in 1937. – In various places, including here after "1932", I think there should be a ; instead of a , because what follows is basically a separate sentence.
 Done
  • suffer the misfortunes – could be more specific: what kind of misfortunes?
 Done have added due to British wartime restrictions on the breeding of larger dogs to the sentence
  • The coat's colour can be any shade of cream, yellow or gold, as they age their coats typically become lighter in colour. – another example where ; is needed instead of ,
 Done
  • Originally only yellow or golden coloured examples were permitted, this excluded many outstanding cream coloured dogs so in 1936 the Kennel Club's standard was amended to include the cream colour – Again interpunctation problems here. To achieve better connection of the sentence parts, you could do something like: "Originally only yellow or golden coloured examples were permitted, but this excluded many outstanding cream coloured dogs, which is why in 1936 the Kennel Club's standard was amended to include the cream colour".
 Reworked, please let me know if you think it needs further reworking.
  • avoid single-sentence paragraphs.
 Fixed, I have reordered the last three sentences making the second paragraph two sentences. I don’t think much would be lost by merging the sentences if you feel that would be an improvement.
  • less suited for wildfowl hunting dog – "dog" too much?
 Removed and reworked that is an obvious error I missed in proof reading.
  • Compared to other retriever breeds, the Golden Retriever is not considered a particularly strong swimmer, due to the breed's long coat they tend to sit quite low in the water when swimming.[7] – Again, either use a ; or reformulate using "because" or similar.
 Reworked.
  • One reason is the breed is generally quite slow to mature, – needs a "that"
 Added.
  • which requires a great deal more maintenance –> "which requires more maintenance" certainly makes the point already
 Removed
  • than that of the Labrador's – no "'s"
 Removed
  • There seems to be a difference between the "American Golden Retriever", "British Golden Retriever", and "Canadian Golden Retriever". I don't find a mention here?
Question? probably the most extensive secondary source cited, Jones & Hamilton,[1] says The Golden Retriever Standard adopted by the British Kennel Club is accepted the world over, except in the U.S.A. and Canada, where a Golden is somewhat larger than in Britain and the cream color is still not allowable, but otherwise is basically the same. I think that is reflected in the article. I have seen some references in unreliable sources and the article before I started rewriting it [2] included large sections about these various lines, but again they were unreliably sourced (or unsourced). Unless I can find a quality secondary source that states these distinctions and terminology exist I think it should be excluded.
  • In conclusion, the article needs a bit of work to reach criterion 1 "well written"; see examples above. But I also think it is not too far from reaching this standard. If you could give the article a copy edit with above concerns in mind, that would be great. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:51, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
Jens, I think I have addressed all of your points above, additionally Justlettersandnumbers made a number of welcome amendments, please let me know if there is any further aspects you would like addressed. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 04:29, 13 January 2022 (UTC).
Thanks for the fixes, looks good now, promoting! --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:38, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
Jens Lallensack, thank you very much for undertaking the review and for your excellent points, the article is improved as a result. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 20:59, 13 January 2022 (UTC).

References

  1. ^ Jones, Arthur F.; Hamilton, Ferelith (1971). The world encyclopedia of dogs. New York: Galahad Books. p. 237. ISBN 0-88365-302-8.

Further improvement

Congrats to Cavalryman and others who helped bring this to GA, great work! Now that that's done, it seems to me that some further improvement could be made without too much further effort. In a spirit of constructive criticism, here are a few things that strike me at once:

  • 'nous' is Ancient Greek, not Gaelic (though of course the Gaels may use it, as the Brits commonly do)
  • the History section would probably be easier to read if it were as strictly chronological as possible; the myths and misconceptions of the past are of fairly limited interest in the present
  • the stuff about unscrupulous breeders in the Health section is (a) far from neutral in tone and (b) pretty much generic and equally (if not more) applicable to many other breeds.

Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:58, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Justlettersandnumbers, sorry I missed this comment as the lowercase sigmabot got in behind you.
  • the cited source states 'nous' is Gaelic for wisdom, but it could very easily be mistaken. That chapter is primarily about the deliberate development of breeds and uses the Golden Retriever’s well chronicled beginnings to illustrate its point, they could easily have been mistaken about the name’s origins.
  • I am keen to retain some mention about the myths and misconceptions because they still crop up in sources and they were (until recently) included in this article and elsewhere.
  • Agree, I was never really happy with that sentence.
Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 04:14, 18 January 2022 (UTC).
No problem, Cavalryman, I don't see any great urgency here now that the GA review is done. Numbering the three points I raised:
  1. for that I think we would need a speaker of Scots Gaelic. Akerbeltz, I seem to remember that you are one such; can you shed any light on Gaelic use of 'nous'?
  2. ah, yes, I see! Indeed, I agree that that should most definitely be included in some detail – though still perhaps all in one place? I can see nothing to suggest that this is a WP:RS (unless it is a translation of one), but it is well written and clearly explains some history, all completely new to me. I'll redirect the "Russian tracker" page here in a moment.
  3. I might have a go at that later today.
Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:37, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Sure :) So nous is not a likely candidate for anything to do with Gaelic, first and foremost because -ou- is not a legitimate letter combination in Gaelic. But even if you consider it to be poor spelling, nothing seems to fit, even if I consider meanings other then wisdom/knowledge. The only thing even vaguely close is a variant spelling of the hero-name Naoise which occasionally crops up as Naos or, if there's a letter missing at the end, a snipe (the bird, naosg) but neither of these look likely candidates. I don't think this is Gaelic at all but the fairly obvious English (<Greek) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nous I have heard people described as having nous, and I could easily see a dog owner applying that to a clever dog, but I can't prove that of course. But it's almost certainly not Scots or Irish Gaelic. Hope that helps! Akerbeltz (talk) 11:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Akerbeltz many thanks. Justlettersandnumbers I think it’s safest to just remove it. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 11:13, 18 January 2022 (UTC).

Copyvio?

Calvaryman, why did Earwig return a 74.6% possibility of a copyvio in an article that was recently promoted to GA? Atsme 💬 📧 05:00, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

I looked through the history a bit, and comparing e.g. this diff with your link's results suggests pretty strongly to me that it was the other site which copied from Wikipedia. --Ørjan (talk) 09:50, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Atsme, given this article was checked for and cleared of copyvios 19 days ago (read the section directly above this one) it appears they copied us. I suppose this is a compliment, thanks for pointing it out. Cavalryman (talk) 09:56, 7 February 2022 (UTC).
I also believe I used the exactly same tool to check for copyvio when I did the GA review, and nothing showed up at that time. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 09:57, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Atsme, when there's a suspicion of copyvio it's often useful to look at the age of the suspected source – mostly, the older it is, the greater the possibility that we may have copied from it. In this case the suspected source looked like this on 22 December 2021. I don't think there's any cause for concern here. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:40, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
WP takes copyvios and plagiarism seriously, and that includes websites copying us. Perhaps I am more sensitive about plagiarism because of my work at Commons, and as a VRT member. Cavalryman, in this particular instance, see when you are the owner, as the following would apply: Inversely, if you are the editor of a Wikipedia article and have found a copy hosted without following the licensing requirements for attribution, please see Wikipedia:Standard license violation letter. A return of 74+% is substantial, and appears to be the whole paragraph. I did not see attribution on the offending website, but could have missed it. As a member of WP:NPP and teacher at the WP:NPP school, we have to double check copyvios because our curation tools only tell us that it's likely, so we have to do the actual research. When websites do not provide attribution for plagiarised content, it adds to our work load, so it actually does help to notify the website that attribution is needed. Most have contact info at the bottom of their index page. Atsme 💬 📧 15:27, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Atsme, I think we differ in philosophies, I don't consider myself the owner of content I contribute. Since you were running an article I recently elevated to GA standard through earwig for reasons only you can explain, I will leave it to you to follow this up. Cavalryman (talk) 16:11, 7 February 2022 (UTC).
This is a policy matter, not a matter of editor philosophy. Perhaps you should look deeper into your own edit history, and worry less about mine. Atsme 💬 📧 16:21, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Folks, let's stay constructive, please. I don't think we have any policy requiring editors to act on copyright violations done elsewhere, and I'm not even sure that would always be the right thing to do. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 16:33, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
For what to do in situations like this please see WP:BACKWARDSCOPY. Nothing mentioned there is obligatory, those are recommendations. Placing a {{backwardscopy}} notice is useful if there's a real possibility that someone might suspect that we'd copied from the external source, but for a website as pathetically bad as rainbowbridgegoldens.org that really isn't very likely. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:43, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Aggression

I would like to request an edit to the "temperament" section.

Please change "The Golden Retriever is considered an intelligent, gentle natured and very affectionate breed of dog", which is WP:PUFFERY not even found in Hancock or Douglas, to this:

"The Golden Retriever is often considered a good natured, friendly and confident breed of dog, which makes for a good family pet".

Directly after that sentence, please add the following text:

"However, there are also reports of very aggressive golden retrievers, often in specific family groups of golden retrievers, which leads Knol et al. to suggest that some golden retriever lineages may have a propensity for aggression."

As part of this edit request, please use the citation here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159106001444

These authors said on page 96: "According to the breed standard, Golden Retriever dogs should have an ideal character to make good family pets. For example, the Dutch Golden Retriever Club breed standard states that Golden Retrievers are ‘‘good-natured, friendly, and confident’’ (GRCN, 2005). However, there are also reports of very aggressive Golden Retrievers (Edwards, 1991; Galac and Knol, 1997; Heath, 1991; Knol and Schilder, 1999). A genetic background has been suggested for this aggression because the behaviour seems to occur more often in certain Golden Retriever family groups (Knol et al., 1997)."

Thank you very much. 2603:8080:2C00:1E00:A984:AFAF:7D4E:39D3 (talk) 05:56, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Note: there is a problem on several dog articles across Wikipedia where dog breed "temperament" sections are being cited with borderline self-published and tertiary sources.[3][4] In this article, Wilcox and Walkowicz (1995) is a tertiary source authored by non-biologists (Walkowicz is a judge by profession). Douglas (2003) is not a biologist or expert, in fact his source is pseudonymous. That author is a hunter rather than a scientist. Adding more expert sources can reduce the puffery in these sections that is mentioned in the RSN discussions. 2603:8080:2C00:1E00:A984:AFAF:7D4E:39D3 (talk) 06:04, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 Not done for now: I'm not sure in what way the first suggestion you make alters the existing line in any meaningful way (it also seems that the sources do indeed support that line) - how does this remove whatever puffery you describe?
Your suggested second line appears to lend undue weight to the fact that some dogs of this breed are indeed aggressive. Looking through the data in Table 1 of the study you link, it appears that in the combined scores, found at the very bottom of the table, it appears that the mean score is below 1 in each of the study's four categories (0 being 'no aggression', 1-3 being 'moderate aggression', and 4 being 'serious aggression'), suggesting that the current text is appropriate, outlining the majority of these dogs appropriately, using appropriate qualifiers such as "generally", "usually", and "often" rather than asserting that all the dogs of this breed behave the same way (which would clearly be puffery as you describe). Is there some reason why we should specifically note the aggression exhibited by an apparently significant minority of the members of the breed?
I'd be happy to add any expert sources to the article if you're able to provide them. Tollens (talk) 08:23, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
@Tollens: the sources cited do not use such flattering language to describe golden retrievers, even though they say positive things. It does not lend undue weight to add this information from the study, which does not come from the experiment, per se, but from this quote:
According to the breed standard, Golden Retriever dogs should have an ideal character to make good family pets. For example, the Dutch Golden Retriever Club breed standard states that Golden Retrievers are ‘‘good-natured, friendly, and confident’’ (GRCN, 2005). However, there are also reports of very aggressive Golden Retrievers (Edwards, 1991; Galac and Knol, 1997; Heath, 1991; Knol and Schilder, 1999). A genetic background has been suggested for this aggression because the behaviour seems to occur more often in certain Golden Retriever family groups (Knol et al., 1997)."
So there have been several reports of aggressive golden retrievers, and there has even been a study (Knol et al., 1997) which has investigated the possible genetic roots for the aggression in certain Golden Retriever lineages.
Therefore it isn't undue weight to describe this, because the authors of this paper describe it, citing 5 different sources, which makes this part of the study a secondary claim. This is what Wikipedia is supposed to be about: the weight that secondary sources give to a particular idea.
In my opinion, you are lending undue weight to this particular study's experiment. As WP:PST says: "Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and avoid novel interpretations of primary sources. All analyses and interpretive or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary or tertiary source and must not be an original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." and "Do not analyze, evaluate, interpret, or synthesize material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so.".
So instead of analyzing the experimental part of this study and deciding what is and isn't due; we should just default to the review part of the study, which unambiguously says that, in spite of the friendly reputation of Golden Retrievers, there are reports of very aggressive Golden Retrievers, and other research in to the causes of Golden Retriever aggression. 2603:8080:2C00:1E00:4113:6AA2:E729:6C30 (talk) 23:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm aware that in terms of the source you provide, the actual data would not be appropriate to analyze within the article. However, it is important in order to view the entire study with the appropriate context. In a study looking at potential risk factors for aggression in this breed, there will obviously be a mention of the fact that aggression does exist in this breed, but note that it does not state that even a substantial amount of individuals display this aggression, stating only that ...there are also reports of very aggressive Golden Retrievers. It would, for example, be accurate and appropriate to say that "there are reports of modern humans practising cannibalism" in a study looking at potential reasons that some cultures may view the practice as more acceptable, but it would seem absurd (to me at least) to state in Human#Diet "there are reports of modern humans practising cannibalism", as that would lend undue weight to the topic. (Not to say that the prevalence of human cannibalism and aggression in golden retrievers are comparable, just as an example.)
While I'm personally not knowledgeable in the slightest about how breed standards impact classification of any particular dog, some limited research seems to suggest that dogs not aligning with the breed standard are not considered to actually be part of that breed (though I may be totally wrong here, please do correct me). Would this not also suggest that a dog of this breed displaying aggression cannot exist by definition? (To clarify again, that is an actual question, not a rhetorical question.) Tollens (talk) 00:18, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello @Tollens:, tis me again. Thanks for the timely reply!
Here is how I see it: the topic is golden retriever temperament. The citation I want to add to the article says that golden retrievers are known to have a placid/friendly temperament, but there are also reports of very aggressive golden retrievers, citing 4 other studies. They also cite an additional study describing research in to a hypothesized genetic cause of aggression in certain Golden Retriever lineages.
I think almost any other Wikipedian would agree that this merits inclusion in to the temperament section. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise. It's clear from the 5 studies they cite that there is plenty of interest in Golden Retriever aggression.
And to answer your question: the aggression is indeed occurring in the Golden Retriever breed. Knol, et al, 1997 describe it as occurring within certain golden retriever lineages. Several other researchers have reported on this research. Here I will quote some:
Genome Mapping and Genomics, Springer, 2008
"Some of these may be a consequence of selective breeding: For example, there is evidence for a genetic predisposition toward aggression in some lines of golden retrievers (Knol et al. 1997; Liinamo et al. 2007)."
Domestic Dog Cognition and Behavior Springer, 2014
"Variation in aggression among Golden Retriever lineages suggests that there is a significant genetic component to this behavior (Knol 1997). Van 248 D.S. Mosher, T.C. Spady, E.A. Ostrander."
I believe this is more than sufficient to demonstrate that Golden Retrievers are considered by researchers to be a diverse breed, with diverse temperaments. A number of lineages within the breed are aggressive, possibly because they were selectively bred to be that way, as mentioned by several authors. There are a significant number of aggressive Golden Retrievers out there and that's why this research exists. It should be noted in the temperament section, IMO. - 2603:8080:2C00:1E00:9090:6CE7:9722:D38E (talk) 03:32, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification on my question! I completely agree (and have agreed - should've made that clear earlier) that there are numerous reliable sources suggesting a genetic cause for aggression (which I am happy to include somehow in the temperament section), and that there are indeed aggressive golden retrievers. My only issue is the possibility of misrepresenting to a casual reader the original study you link's findings when they do explicitly state "The distributions of observations were skewed for most of the aggression measures so that the majority of dogs classified in the lower (less aggressive) classes and only a few dogs had been classified in the most extreme (aggressive) classes."
Perhaps it was just an issue of wording in your original proposal or the order of ideas in the sentence, but currently the combination of the two sentences in your proposal The Golden Retriever is often considered a good natured, friendly and confident breed of dog, which makes for a good family pet. However, there are also reports of very aggressive golden retrievers, often in specific family groups of golden retrievers, which leads Knol et al. to suggest that some golden retriever lineages may have a propensity for aggression. reads to me as implying "while the breed standard specifies X, in reality the breed displays Y", but this is clearly not the intended reading. Perhaps rewording the second sentence to resemble more closely the second quote you provide just above (which is at the first link) would change that while retaining the same idea - does "It has been suggested that substantial variations in aggression observed between groups of golden retrievers is partially caused by genetic factors." still match what you were looking to include? Tollens (talk) 04:26, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
@Tollens: Sorry for taking three days to respond to you! You are indeed completely correct. I had never intended to suggest that Golden Retrievers were actually aggressive, despite of their generally friendly temperament, only that there are reports of aggression in certain lineages, as you suggest.
How would you like to add this to the "Temperament" section?
However, there have also been reports of very aggressive Golden Retrievers, who belong to specific families within the breed. It has been suggested that this variations in aggression observed between groups of golden retrievers is partially caused by genetic factors.
I am not picky, if you want to reword it how you please I won't raise a fuss about it or anything. I'm not picky. Thanks so much for your time and patience, I really enjoyed conversing with you! - 2603:8080:2C00:1E00:BCB4:2AC5:91A9:74F5 (talk) 01:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 Done! Tollens (talk) 18:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
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