User talk:Jjazz76
This is my talk page. I usually delete anything that is a resolved issue, just to keep things clean and organized. Happy editing!
Theta Nu Epsilon Chapter List[edit]
I'm surprised that you deleted the chapter list as it was referenced. While ref 11, http://thetanuepsilon.org/13Chaplis/chapterList.html is a dead link, it is available on archive.org at https://web.archive.org/web/20150403113708/http://thetanuepsilon.org/13Chaplis/ChapterList.html . I'll hold off reinserting until we discuss here, I'll be happy to move an discussion to the talk page or to the talk page for the fraternities and sororities wikiproject.Naraht (talk) 20:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yep happy to discuss there. If you look at the very, very, very long talk page, it seems that most of this fraternity, except for probably the Wesleyan original seems to be fraudulent. Basically, we have one circa 2005 website that claims an extraordinary number of chapters, a primary source, but almost nothing in the secondary sources, or college newspapers to support it. This whole article is MOSTLY a hoax. Again we have to ask ourselves is this a RS? Jjazz76 (talk) 20:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- There being the article, or there being the wikiproject? Also and add https://books.google.com/books?id=xbU0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA233 to the list of sources to be considered, as well as https://books.google.com/books?id=PfDmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA228 . And the second coming from Banta's greek exchange is about as close to a RS as you are going to get other than Baird's. (and not much below Baird's).Naraht (talk) 20:30, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- That source works for me. It is also significantly smaller than what was in article just before. Jjazz76 (talk) 20:33, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- We can discuss where-ever you think is best. I think more attention should be drawn to the issue with this article as there are likely still some connected articles out there that suffer from some of the same issues. Jjazz76 (talk) 20:34, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Feel free to comment on Wikipedia:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities, it does fall under the wikiproject. Right now we are actually pretty focused on the infoboxes (the information on how to determinine missing fields in Template:Infobox Fraternity was determined recently, so that's the focus, but I'd say you'll get people who've done this before looking at it. Right now, I want to see how good of a list I can pull from Baird's Manual of American Fraternities, though the simple fact that it is Theta Nu Epsilon will probably mean that lists from reliable sources may disagree, and that doesn't mean they didn't exist, it just meant that the national didn't have good control over things (which was part of what the NIC objected to).Naraht (talk) 20:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Right. Sorry I don't mean to suggest that none of these chapters exist. I'm totally fine with what we can find in Baird, etc. But if you look back in the history of this article there was a fair amount of sockpuppet silliness that added also sorts of wild claims of chapters and fighting on the talk page.
- I just got bored today and hoped all the sockpuppets were gone so we could finally figure out where there likely were chapters of this org. It definitely has an interesting history in the places it existed just a shame so much of it was mucked up with nonsense. Jjazz76 (talk) 20:49, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Ok just posted on the WikiProject I THINK in the right place. Thanks for all the work you do! Jjazz76 (talk) 20:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Naraht, I am glad you are engaged here, as I just reviewed the alarming section blanking for the Theta Nu Epsilon article. There are plenty of sources, although sure, some bogus, puffed claims that ought to be addressed. Like many of us engaged in the F&S Project, I strongly prefer to improve articles rather than blank helpful work that would lead to more research. The article, prior to blanking, appears to show the nature of the beast for this organization. I reviewed Jjazz76's profile, realizing that this was a normal editor and that while this was a scattershot blanking, I see there is some engagement here. Jazz, this article is about a notorious society that is notable for many reasons, with numerous yearbook listings and other citable proof. My own fraternity chapter flirted with association, as energetic sophomores do, two years after installation back in about 1912 when TNE came to our campus. It was such a notable, almost derailing event that our early national history discussed it over several pages, as a cautionary tale. Wikipedia is a far less useful tool if editors delete works in progress or content that is not blue-chip or fully settled. Again, this is a work in progress, and I would hope that when you see an error, you research it and fix it, rather than pull out the scythe. Jax MN (talk) 22:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's totally fine. I'm happy to be more careful in my deletions. I hope you will agree that besides the list, the other deletions were fine. I just personally of am of the stance we can't have uncited and uncitable material languish for years and sometimes decades waiting for a [citation needed] that never seems to come. Jjazz76 (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Naraht, I am glad you are engaged here, as I just reviewed the alarming section blanking for the Theta Nu Epsilon article. There are plenty of sources, although sure, some bogus, puffed claims that ought to be addressed. Like many of us engaged in the F&S Project, I strongly prefer to improve articles rather than blank helpful work that would lead to more research. The article, prior to blanking, appears to show the nature of the beast for this organization. I reviewed Jjazz76's profile, realizing that this was a normal editor and that while this was a scattershot blanking, I see there is some engagement here. Jazz, this article is about a notorious society that is notable for many reasons, with numerous yearbook listings and other citable proof. My own fraternity chapter flirted with association, as energetic sophomores do, two years after installation back in about 1912 when TNE came to our campus. It was such a notable, almost derailing event that our early national history discussed it over several pages, as a cautionary tale. Wikipedia is a far less useful tool if editors delete works in progress or content that is not blue-chip or fully settled. Again, this is a work in progress, and I would hope that when you see an error, you research it and fix it, rather than pull out the scythe. Jax MN (talk) 22:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Feel free to comment on Wikipedia:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities, it does fall under the wikiproject. Right now we are actually pretty focused on the infoboxes (the information on how to determinine missing fields in Template:Infobox Fraternity was determined recently, so that's the focus, but I'd say you'll get people who've done this before looking at it. Right now, I want to see how good of a list I can pull from Baird's Manual of American Fraternities, though the simple fact that it is Theta Nu Epsilon will probably mean that lists from reliable sources may disagree, and that doesn't mean they didn't exist, it just meant that the national didn't have good control over things (which was part of what the NIC objected to).Naraht (talk) 20:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- There being the article, or there being the wikiproject? Also and add https://books.google.com/books?id=xbU0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA233 to the list of sources to be considered, as well as https://books.google.com/books?id=PfDmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA228 . And the second coming from Banta's greek exchange is about as close to a RS as you are going to get other than Baird's. (and not much below Baird's).Naraht (talk) 20:30, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
June 2: Hacking Sunday (+preview of June 8 Wiknic)[edit]
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