User talk:Ivanvector

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My first contribution blocked[edit]

I added quotes from Kristen Clarke, Head of the USDOJ Civil Rights Division, to her page. The quotes were double sourced. Why was my contribution blocked? UndergroundVeritas (talk) 21:59, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UndergroundVeritas: was this you? If so, the quote was removed because we don't publish novel analysis, such as giving your personal opinion of a person's political views based only on something they said on Twitter. Content on Wikipedia is required to adhere to a neutral point of view, which is almost always incompatible with "setting the record straight". We cannot publish our own personal conclusions, we can only repeat conclusions made by independent reliable sources, and only in a way which reflects a balanced view of the subject. If you have such a source you could discuss including it on the article's talk page. If you were talking about something else, you'll have to be more specific. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 22:17, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFA2024 update: phase I concluded, phase II begins[edit]

Hi there! Phase I of the Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review has concluded, with several impactful changes gaining community consensus and proceeding to various stages of implementation. Some proposals will be implemented in full outright; others will be discussed at phase II before being implemented; and still others will proceed on a trial basis before being brought to phase II. The following proposals have gained consensus:

See the project page for a full list of proposals and their outcomes. A huge thank-you to everyone who has participated so far :) looking forward to seeing lots of hard work become a reality in phase II. theleekycauldron (talk), via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:09, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked IP Address[edit]

Hello User:Ivanvector !!! Hope you will be Fine !!!

I Joined Wikipedia on 07 May 2024 and I'm able to edit Live Articles, draft articles, adding Images Tags but When i edit or add Image Captions, i got a warning that I'm blocked from editing or adding Images captions. Please fix this issue because I'm able to edit everything except adding Images captions. Please unblock my IP or any other issue. Thank you... SoryThank (talk) 10:25, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This editor is a sockpuppet of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nauman335. Blocked and tagged. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:05, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why decided to remove my comment?[edit]

Why you had decided to remove my comment instead of keep it as a warning or remove the entire post? user in question likely had done that post with the intention of posion the well and disrupt the discussion for his favor, his edit history seems to point to it as well Meganinja202 (talk) 16:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are already plenty of warnings from multiple administrators on that page that personal attacks will not be tolerated. The tone of discussion on that talk page is already quite poor, and it's certainly not helped by comments like yours accusing other editors of having nefarious motives. Our policy is to assume good faith rather than immediately assuming that a question has bad intent, and if you don't have anything constructive to say in response then you are free to not say anything at all. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:03, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

The Working Man's Barnstar
To my fellow Canadian for your tireless and no doubt exhausting efforts to keep the Talk:Yasuke dumpster fire under control. I don't know how (or if) you're staying sane, but I know I definitely wouldn't be. Sock (tock talk) 14:04, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yasuke edit[edit]

Hello Ivanvector, as a IP i am not able to talk on the talk-page, but i would like to bring to your attention some of the problems on your decision to ignore the sources situation in the article about Yasuke.... It should be mentioned, that the Huffington-article actual used quoted from Luís Fróis

in the quote: ＜巡察師（ヴァリニャーノのこと）が信長に送った黒人奴隷が、信長の死後、息子の家に行き、相当長い間、戦っていたところ、明智の家臣が近づいて「恐れることなくその刀を差し出せ」といったので、刀を渡した。家臣は、この黒人奴隷をどのように処分すべきか明智に尋ねたところ、「黒人奴隷は動物で何も知らず、また日本人でないため殺すのはやめて、インドのパードレ（司祭）の聖堂に置け」と言った＞

Yasuke is refereed only as a slave prior and after the death of Oda and he was only spared from death, because of his slave-status, comparing him to an animal by Mitsuhide. 「皮膚の色こそ異なるものの、若干言葉を解し、最後まで主人への忠誠を果たした従者を殺すのは忍びないと光秀が思ったとしても不思議ではない」 This part is already mentioned on the page, but it ignores the problem, that it is unlikely to happen, that Mitsuhide would have called a noble samurai retainer of Oda, known by him prior to the assimilation of Oda, just an animal.....he was not killed like a samurai, he was send back to his former owner, the missioner Fróis. Other samurais were killed by Mitsuhide in this incident and Yasuke was even violent in his capture.


In an earlier quote, he is not even the subject of talk and the quote is once again just highlighting, that Oda surrounded himself with black people, given by missionaries to him and he gave them various things. This includes a Tanto, not a katana and this was often misleading used to claim, that Yasuke would have owned swords, but it is just a dagger. Even women wore daggers, who were more specific named Kaiken and to quote the English article about this blade. The kaiken was also carried concealed in its shirasaya by the lower classes who were not permitted to wear swords, [...] Such a dagger is explicit to have a defensive weapon as a person, who was not allowed to carry a sword, like a warrior. Oda gave in this primary source a dagger to a black person, because he was not a samurai. And the whole quote is not mentioning Yasuke as the actual person, who got this dagger and other black people were mentioned to exist.


On a different paragraph it was once again highlighted, that the missionary gave these people as servants to Oda and the article itself calls explicit Yasuke a warrior 武士. Not a samurai. the differentiation is even highlighted once again here on Wikipedia. In Japanese, historical warriors are usually referred to as bushi (武士, [bɯ.ɕi]), meaning 'warrior', however, historical sources make it clear that bushi and samurai were distinct concepts, with the former referring to soldiers or warriors and the latter referring instead to a kind of hereditary nobility. with direct links to the famous Nippo Jisho written in the time, when Yasuke was present in Japan.

This was already highlighted on the talkpage to be the case and not followed by any critic against this argument on 15:18, 17 May 2024 (UTC) by Hexenakte (At the end of the consolidation of threads discussing Yasuke's samurai description). Yasuke was certainly not part of the nobility of Japan and thereby was simply unable to be a samurai at these times and was at best only a warrior. The other source calling him only a servant and slave is still ignored on his page and should probably be added with this source, you deleated. https://www.huffingtonpost.jp/entry/yasuke_jp_609347f7e4b09cce6c26a9b2


Additional i want to add, that even the source 13, used to claim, that Yasuke is suppose to be a retainer of Oda still openly calls Yasuke a slave over the whole article, like そもそも奴隷だった弥助がデスマスクというものを知っていたのか？ (Did Yasuke, who was a slave, even know what a death mask was in the first place?) on the second page. Later the article even speculates, that he served once again under a different samurai. This wouldn't be possible, if he would be a samurai himself. In other parts of the source Yasuke is called a servant of Oda and not a retainer, so this source is simply used to claim, that there would be effidence, that he was a retainer, while the article is not directly stating this and makes arguments, who wouldn't allow him to be a retainer or just warrior in the first place. There are 2 sources (4 and 13) to prove, that he would be a retainer or samurai, but both articles are about entertainment movies, who present Yasuke in these shows as retainer or samurai. They don't talk about the historic figure in these paragraphs at the start and later they call him in historic content a slave.

I hope, you understand, that i had to inform you about these clearly problematic sources for specific-claims about Yasuke, who mixed fictional works with history in the article and the lack of honouring the clearly repeatedly historical claimed slave-status of Yasuke in the primary sources about him, who are partly already used in the article, but erased from his documented life in Japan. --2003:DF:A72F:9F00:B429:CF64:4762:BB8 (talk) 18:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your characterization of my removal of the inappropriate disclaimer as "ignoring the sources" is incorrect. I removed that text only because it was inappropriate to have added it in that section, and neither of the sources provided seemed to support the conclusion. The article as it is now does not call Yasuke samurai other than in the context of fictional depictions where he was depicted as samurai, and Wikipedia articles are meant to present facts as they are, not to tell readers which facts are more important, nor how they should be interpreted, nor does Wikipedia take sides in controversial subjects. In short, writing in a note like "by the way, he wasn't samurai" is completely irrelevant in an article that doesn't call him samurai in the first place. It would be like adding a note at the top of Barack Obama saying "just so you know, he wasn't born in Kenya". You can see MOS:NOTETHAT for our style guide on these kinds of "leading" statements.
Besides this, I think it's important for you (and all editors involved in this) to understand that Wikipedia does not publish original research. Above you've made the common error of stating a few sources' conclusions correctly but then combining them into a new conclusion that none of the sources actually state. That is called synthesis and is a form of original research, which we cannot publish. In order to publish a conclusion like "Yasuke was not samurai because Oda gave him a dagger", we need a reference to a source which says that exactly, not two sources which say part of it.
Otherwise, the only opinion I've given on the samurai matter has been that the discussions should be in one place instead of spread across many different pages and threads. I am trying to keep to the role of neutral moderator, and so from my perspective there's nothing for me to do other than to monitor discussions, remove the occasional disruptive editor, and implement edit requests when consensus is formed on the talk page. You can participate in that discussion when the protection expires, but I am not interested in starting another discussion here. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 19:40, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, than i am sorry about this characterization, because my intention were different and i believed the source would be deleated from the whole article, this was wrong, but i would like to highlight once again, that the original research part is already a huge thing over large areas of the article and this synthesis is gets ignored, while other synthesis contrary to this view will not get removed. We are there on the same page. If we cant write, that huge parts of his live made no sense, if he was a samurai, we cant make other claims on the site, that imply, that he would be a samurai, to make these claims work.
The Birth and early life and Documented life in Japan sections is filled with this problem to evade certain sources in articles, because it would mean to talk about Yasuke clearly sourced rank as a slave in Japan to allow to speculate about a potential higher rank of Yasuke in Japan, like the samurai-rank in other sections.
Both sections try to exclude the clear references of Yasuke as a slave even in quotes from the same Japanese articles used in our wikipedia article, explicit quoting the Jesuit missionary Luís Fróis, who is mentioned in the article and even quoted, but it is deliberated paragraphed to evade this term slave in quotes in his work.
The quote ＜信長も黒人奴隷を見ることを望んでいたため、宣教師のオルガンティノが連れていったところ、信長はその色が生まれつきで、後から塗ったものでないことを信じようとせず、帯から上の着物を脱がせた＞ von Fróis in the article is thereby ignored.
The quote 明智光秀の「黒人奴隷は動物で何も知らず」という説明は、あまりにも人種差別的だ。 is ignored.
The quote フロイスは「黒人奴隷は少し日本語が分かったので、信長は彼と話して飽きることがなかった。 is ignored.
the highlighted part calls him a black slave and these are only the quoted in one article found in a short search.
Additional i want to highlight once again, that source 3 and 4 and 18 is often used to prove in a manner of original research, that he would be a retainer ignoring these quotes, who call him a slave in the same article, because they put the article into google-translate and cherry-pick or by ignoring the context of the words in the article: The article, used the term 仕えた to describe him as a "retainer" for google translate, but 仕えた means in Japanese just serving (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/japanese-english/%E4%BB%95%E3%81%88%E3%82%8B) and would describe him as a servant. Not every common servant of Oda was his retainer. Only the samurai by their given rank were named retainers, while they served him.
In source 18 he is called 家臣, a vassal, who again would only be a retainer as a vassal, if Yasuke already possess this rank of samurai. Not every vassal was as a retainer.
The claim, that Oda made him a retainer by these sources, is not correct and already expects Yasuke to be a samurai to make these terms work in Japanese, while these articles wont call him a samurai. It is a synthesis, or not?
Would it be possible to at least copy and post these 2 problems onto the talk-page for me, as i am not able to contribute to the talk page, but my points are reasonable to ask for a consensus on these 2 matters onto the talk-page, that some terms in the article still imply, that he would be a samurai=> retainer, and that the article is clearly avoiding quotes of a major source of his live, who clearly define him over his whole documented life in Japan only as a slave multiple times in different articles used by Wikipedia already and often used by the writers of these articles too.
Before the protection expired, the talk-page should come to a form of conclusion on these vital parts. I don't want to create more drama directly after the protection expired, that would only lead to an expansion of the protection.
--2003:DF:A72F:9F00:41AB:29B5:56F0:5FF3 (talk) 23:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page protection for Elliot Rodger[edit]

Is there anyway to semi-protect the article like the 2014 Isla Vista Killings? The page is already getting vandalized and IPs are adding unsourced and unreliable information. Shoot for the Stars (talk) 16:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Shoot for the Stars: 2014 Isla Vista killings is already extended-confirmed protected, did you mean a different article? Protection is normally requested at WP:RFPP. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I see in the edit history that some edits are already getting hidden. I’m just nervous that IPs and brand new accounts are going to add harmful or wrong information into the Elliot Rodger article. Do you think I should request it?
Shoot for the Stars (talk) 17:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see, you mean the article Elliot Rodger, I misread your question. I'm having a look now, but I think it's just the one editor (using several IPs) adding the unsourced/poorly-sourced content, so I would say it's not necessary at this time. I am watching the page, though. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect. Thank you. I’ll also let you know if I find anything that violates the article.
Shoot for the Stars (talk) 17:19, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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