Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of winners of the London Marathon/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Scorpion0422 22:12, 2 June 2009 [1].

List of winners of the London Marathon[edit]

Nominator(s): Matthewedwards :  Chat  04:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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After working on this for about a week, I think it's pretty much ready. There's a few redlinks, but they should be blue by the end of the nomination. Lede section may be a bit long for some. If that's the case I can shift some of it over to London Marathon, which is a bit anemic in well referenced statements. Matthewedwards :  Chat  04:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Chrishomingtang

Comment

  • It might be to good to divide the refs into general refs and specific refs like many FLs
  • I think the tables should use full size text whenever possible

—Chris! ct 04:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've done the general/specific thing, although I think it's a pretty odd way of doing them. I tried making fonts in the tables 100%, but it results in the first two tables having narrower columns than the rest, even with forced column widths. I don't know why.. maybe something to do witht the images? I'll have to have a play around at some point. Matthewedwards :  Chat  05:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Your edit made it worse, I think. Could you revert that edit, pease?--Crzycheetah 05:58, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - on lead prose

  • "7,741 participants entered ", don't start sentences with numbers per MOSNUM
  • "first Men's race", I'm not sure capitalise Men's, similarly with Women's. I wasn't sure but I notice this FL is lower case for "men's discus" in the lead.
  • "19 people competed, and seventeen finished" comparable quantities
  • "saw 35,859 competitors" - don't think "saw" is the most encyclopaedic word here
  • "It remained here for twelve years" - this might not be right, but I'd have thought it should be "there" not "here"
  • "In 2005 the route" comma after 05

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rambo's Revenge (talk • contribs) 21:37, May 16, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. I've done everything except the "Men's race"/"men's race" thing. I've seen both, but capitalised is used more often at the BBC, Guardian and what-have-you. What do you think of the "7,741 participants" sentence now? I can't come up with anything less clumsy. Matthewedwards :  Chat  23:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I downloaded a torrent of the BBC's coverage of this year's race, and they refer to the races as Men's Elite Race, Women's Elite Race, Men's Wheelchair Race and Women's Wheelchair Race on the on-screen graphics. I've updated the page to reflect this. Matthewedwards :  Chat  18:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No issues of mine remain, and I'm happy with your take on the Men's vs men's comment. Saying that, I haven't had an in-depth look so I don't feel it would be right to support. Best, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – Nice one. Only a couple of things I saw stuck out at me:

  • Link for Isle of Dogs in the second paragraph? Also, there are two River Thames links in a single paragraph.
  • "The most recent win by a British athlete was the 2008 London Marathon, by David Weir in the Men's wheelchair race." Soemthing about this is bothering me. I think it's the fact that we're saying Weir won the marathon, when he actually only won one of the event's races. Is this considered normal usage in the media when describing winners? Giants2008 (17-14) 01:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think putting "The most recent win by a British athlete was in the 2008 London Marathon, by David Weir in the Men's wheelchair race." will solve the problem?


  • Comments
    • I expected to see the info about the course in the first paragraph. I think it's more important than all the stats in the first paragraph, but that's just me.
    • Why do you have "Wheelchair race" as a section with 2 sub-sections? I think those sub sections need to become sections. It looks offending to me.

--Crzycheetah 05:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:13, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "as a very competitive and "
  • "It remained there for twelve years before" "twelve"-->12
  • "the London Eye comes into view, before turning right into Birdcage Walk to finish the final 385 yards," I didn't know the London Eye was capable of turning right.
  • "between 14 and 21 miles was" Using "miles" here is unidiomatic. Try "between the 14- and 21-mile marks"
  • "nineteen people"-->19 people; basically, there is inconsistency in the usage of numerals for numbers over ten.
  • "The London Marathon has been won by twenty athletes representing the United Kingdom thirty-nine times." I think it would be better as "Twenty athletes representing the United Kingdom have won the London Marathon a total of thirty-nine times." (always use active voice when possible).
  • "second largest number"-->second-largest number
  • "World records for marathon running" The piped link for this redirects; might as well fix it.
  • "2008 with 1:48:04."-->2008, with 1:48:04. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • All done. Thanks for reviewing.

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Any progress forthcoming on the text size? I'm inclined to support otherwise. Giants2008 (17-14) 23:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Font size now at 100% after a bit of resizing of the table's column. It should look okay at most resolutions now. Matthewedwards :  Chat  04:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Matthewedwards :  Chat  04:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – My issues were taken care of a while ago; I was just waiting for the font size issue to be resolved, which it is now. Giants2008 (17-14) 23:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Review by Truco (talk · contribs)

Lead
  • A lot of use of Heading, can it be used less often as the starting word of the sentences in the second paragraph?
  • 'In 2005, the route around the Isle of Dogs between the 14- and 21- mile marks was switched from a clockwise to an anti-clockwise direction, and at 22 miles the route was diverted to avoid the cobblestoned area near the Tower of London.' -- 1)Shouldn't it be 21-mile marks? 2)'anti-clockwise' --> counterclockwise? 3)Comma after '22 miles'
  • British English is "anti-clockwise" Matthewedwards :  Chat 
  • Oh okay, well can #1 and #3 be done?--Truco 18:42, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
List
  • Why are the notes not starting with capital letters?
  • It would be better if the commas separating different ideas in the notes be replaced with semicolon's.
  • I'm not a real fan of using the '1st, 2nd, 3rd' numbering system for things like the number of victories, why not just spell them out?

--Truco 15:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing. Everyhing's been done. Matthewedwards :  Chat  17:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
*Very weak oppose - I fixed a cell without an edge in one of the tables, and I made a (better?) categorisation from "Marathoning" to "Marathons in England" (two levels more specific category). I think you're missing one of the other "major" marathons in your "See also" section, and I would consider a template maybe? Does everyone know what a "pub" is? Also, you could increase the size of the lead image? And a description of what the difference between "Elite" and non-"Elite" would be useful, incorporating info that states they set off first, with all the crazy gang afterwards. But real close to support. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've resized the image, added a template and wikilinked pub. The Berlin Marathon doesn't have a list of winners page (potential FL, for anyone who's interested), so I linked to the closest section in Berlin Marathon. I haven't decided on explaining the difference between Elite and non-Elite (Mass Race) because this article doesn't even mention the crazies. It should be done at London Marathon, but I'm not sure about this page. If you can think of a decent way to word it though, feel free to add it :) Matthewedwards :  Chat  22:21, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The Rambling Man (talk) 08:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Everything looks great! The lead is very long, but I think it's okay. I'm sure you have, but be sure the main article is good quality too. Reywas92Talk 17:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I agree with Reywas92 that the lead is quite long, but it is still very informative and is a help rather than a hindrance to the list overall. I'm still thinking of a decent image stacking solution for images alongside tables, but it's more of a niggling technical issue rather than a true problem. You have my support. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 05:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Yes, the lede is rather long now. The route paragraph has already been copied over to London Marathon, perhaps it would be better removed from here and just leaving the 26.2 mile detail in. It is after all the only paragraph not related to the actual winners, and doing this would reduce it to four paragraphs, in line with WP:LEDE. Matthewedwards :  Chat  06:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like a good decision to me. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 15:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Since there's a template available now, the see also section can be removed.--Crzycheetah 03:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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