Talk:Simon & Schuster/Archives/2017

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Milo Yiannopoulos: Dangerous

Initial announcement

Because of the current controversy, people keep adding Yiannopoulos and sometimes erroneous things to S&S's page. Right now, Yiannopoulos is only under contract to write a book, he has not actually been published, and it is for their Threshold imprint which has its own page. Any information right now should go there. I am also planning to take him out of the list of authors on S&S page--if he belongs anywhere it is on Threshold, but the spots here should be reserved for notable authors--bestselling, culturally significant, etc. S&S has a long history--the entire author list is long (they publish something like 200 bestsellers a year). Let's leave the author list to those that stand the test of time (or at least published one book!). Obviously, this could become a bigger story but let's see what happens. Jaldous1 (talk) 18:29, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

@Jaldous1: That.. kinda makes sense, though I dislike this interpretation of WP:N. To my knowledge, notability applies to article creation, not content. S&S is notable with or without Milo. Thing is, S&S has him listed as an author on their own pages. You really don't get much more authoritative a source than the company the article is about saying "yeah, he's one of our authors". Karunamon ✉ 19:18, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I just had another look. These guidelines only outline how suitable a topic is for its own article or list. They do not limit the content of an article or list. Notability is not a reason to exclude someone from a list based on an authoritative source about what the content of the list should be. Karunamon ✉ 19:20, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I added more info on Milo story from Threshold here to S&S entry since they release a statement. The story continues to unfold...Jaldous1 (talk) 00:50, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Adding to list of Simon & Schuster authors page

Simon and Schuster has published tens of thousands of authors over the years. The more notable authors should remain on the Simon & Schuster page--I created a page for List of Simon & Schuster authors to hold a more extensive list--please help by adding to it.Jaldous1 (talk) 16:52, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

The wording about "best selling authors" all but clinches the fact that Milo needs to be on that list. It's rather notable that an unpublished book has rocketed to the top of Amazon's bestsellers despite not even being out yet. Karunamon ✉ 18:55, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

How about we add him back in since people are coming here for information then. I'll add back in the list. Jaldous1 (talk) 19:38, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Publication canceled

Milo Yiannopoulos should be cut from the list of authors as his book Dangerous will not now be published by S&S. The controversy has its own section, so it is not as though the incident is being airbrushed.

This is a company almost one hundred years old...

...and almost one fifth of this article is devoted to some controversy that has taken place over the last few months. Seriously? See WP:UNDUE and WP:NOTNEWS. If the text is restored, at least pare it down to an appropriate length. I've also removed the latest social media idiocy of the day. [1] See also WP:COATRACK. --NeilN talk to me 20:36, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Eshill99, can you please explain why you restored the material? --NeilN talk to me 07:46, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
NeilN, The material was restored as you are involved in an edit war or possibly vandalism. The page is not a company advertising page nor is it only for promotional information. If you have something to contribute, add it. Deleting something because you don't like it is not editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eshill99 (talk • contribs) 08:19, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
@Eshill99: First, please get a proper signature. [2] Second, instead of incorrectly using Wikipedia "lingo", read what I wrote above as it refers to Wikipedia guidelines. To expand:
  • WP:UNDUE: This controversy is hardly the most notable thing about this company and should not take up a fifth of this article. Probably a few sentences in the "2010s" section at most. We don't need a blow by blow account of the situation per WP:NOTNEWS.
  • The Jennings material also falls under WP:NOTNEWS. It also has little to do with Simon & Schuster and is obviously being coatracked into here. But I suspect you already knew that (see WP:SCRUTINY).
@Jaldous1, Philip Cross, and Karunamon: Any thoughts? --NeilN talk to me 14:12, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for asking me to weigh in. This company IS one hundreds year old and I believe deserves a much larger article overall. It has had a tremendous impact through the 20th and the 21st century. The story of the publisher is the story of the rise of large publishing houses, their incorporation in the mid-twentieth century, their consolidation by conglomerates, and the changes they've endured because of technology. The editorial choices they make impacts our taste, our shared canon, examining the rise and fall of authors and genres says something about our culture. The major publishers and editors are fascinating people and often themselves act as a connector or intersection to other people in history (see my entry on Michael Korda who has known EVERYONE of importance in the 20th century and is a veritable fountain of information). With that in mind--I helped fill in the bit about Milo Y. intending to create a whole section on controversies (there have been many). And to fill out the remaining areas so that it wouldn't seem lopsided. Personally, I'm fascinated by the rise of the conservative imprints such as Threshold but at the same time S&S's move to push to publish a diverse author set. A lot of this story can be told within the imprints themselves. I would like a summary of the controversy to remain. Now that the story is "done" it can be summarized within a few sentences. More detail belongs on Mr. Y's page and/or Threshold's imprint or one for the book itself. At some point I will get back to filling in more info to make the S&S's article more robust. But any Youtube stars, small social media controversies--yes please those should be taken off.Jaldous1 (talk) 03:15, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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