Talk:Legal drinking age/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Afganistan

Illegal is spelled wrong in the table. It says llegal. Should it be illegal or legal? I'd assume illegal as they are a Muslim country but you know what assuming gets you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baus88 (talk • contribs) 14:03, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

It was legal after the fall of the Taliban until the middle of 2009; now illegal again. I've fixed it up, someone had pasted in the reference from another country without checking it. Bazzargh (talk) 11:01, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Conflicting information about France

When I conferred the cited resource, it says both on premise and off premise drinking age in France is 18. According to this wiki post, it quotes 'none' as a drinking age in France. What is the real answer? ~SR, 3/31/10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.128.10.127 (talk) 15:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Madagascar?

Oops, someone left it out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.109.101.179 (talk) 13:36, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Drinking age in Puerto Rico

It's 18, not 21. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.195.76 (talk) 08:20, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Uzbekistan

Uzbekistan is not part of the list - does anyone know the legal situation there? Lalunya (talk) 11:49, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

NZ raises legal age for buying alcohol

New Zealand has increased the age for buying alcohol to 20 (18 years of age for on-licences and 20 years of age for off-licences.) but kept the drinking/buying age at hotels and bars at 18.

Can someone please update.

Source: http://feeds.beehive.govt.nz/release/government%2boutlines%2bbalanced%2bplan%2balcohol%2breform

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/23/2991076.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.129.82 (talk) 04:51, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

This Law is not in effect yet. I understand it is what they plan to do but it has not taken effect as of yet.
Source:http://www.3news.co.nz/Alcohol-purchase-age-expected-to-go-up/tabid/419/articleID/172133/Default.aspx
Rocoyo (talk) 02:30, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

"No Laws" (green) image and caption misleading

The "No Laws" (green) image and caption in the lede is misleading. It is not reasonable to say that Australia has no laws on drinking age. The short answer is that drinking alcohol is allowed from 18 years. The fact that this law doesn't apply on private property for youths drinking alcohol owned by their parents doesn't mean that there is "no law". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:51, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Turkey

In earlier versions, Turkey was placed both under Europe and Asia, while this is true in reality, its not necessary to list the country twice. So i fixed that, and added a new reference regarding news on the subject. --Vakanuvis789 (talk) 14:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

NOTICE: Somebody should change the map and paint Turkey to Orange. I didn't cos im not yet that familiar with wiki commons and dont have the time. --Vakanuvis789 (talk) 05:13, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

What is "drinking age" ?

There is confusion about what "drinking age" means. Some have interpreted it as the age below which a young person is penalized by fines for drinking even in private. Which often is never, even if no one are allowed to give or sell then any alcohol. Some have interpreted it as the age when some purchase is possible. But then the "purchase age" should be the same. Someone interpreted Norway as "no limits" (changed now), since there is no formal forbid for any child to purchase, but it is illegal to sell and give. Norway is generally considered strict, not a "no limits" country. Maybe we should label the headlines "Restaurants" and "Shops" instead, or what shall we do?. We should have the same interpretation for all countries. Now there are differences between countries that have no differences. --BIL (talk) 13:58, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

"Legal drinking age refers to the youngest age at which a person is legally permitted to drink alcoholic beverages." How can that be misunderstood? In some places it is illegal for them to drink. And the forth paragraph just makes things confusing. What you are talking about should be added as a third column. Bgagaga (talk) 23:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree with BIL. The Legal Age for Norway is in effect the age they can buy. If there is no legal way for them to obtain alcohol, then even if on a technicality they are not breaking laws to drink it it is in effect illegal. Legislation to avoid criminalising children doesn't make it intrinsically legal for them to drink. In the case of Norway, it seems very wrong to list no drinking age. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 04:50, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
"If there is no legal way for them to obtain alcohol", but it IS legal to buy. "Legislation to avoid criminalising children doesn't make it intrinsically legal for them to drink.", if there's no law against it, isn't it then legal? Wouldn't adding a third column, to show when people are allowed to sell/serve/give to minors be a good idea? Bgagaga (talk) 04:29, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
It's not legal to buy though. It's nonsensical to say that Norway has no drinking age, if any alcohol can be confiscated from a minor and those that gave them the alcohol persecuted. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 04:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
"It's not legal to buy though.", I want to see that law. It is just illegal to sell to them, that's not the same at all. This whole article is a mess. Bgagaga (talk) 05:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree this is confusing. Iceland has pretty much the exact same rules as Norway and is not considered a 'no limits' country in the article. That would be very misleading since there is no legal way for under 20s to obtain alcohol and even though they won't be criminally prosecuted for possessing alcohol, the alcohol itself can be confiscated. To place all importance on wether it is illegal for minors to buy alcohol just seems like silly semantics to me. --Bjarki (talk) 13:39, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Also, I would be surprised if it is actually considered a criminal offense 'for the minor' to purchase, possess or consume alcohol in most western countries. --Bjarki (talk) 13:49, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
It is in most of the United States at least. I don't think it's silly semantics to distinguish between areas where purchasing alcohol goes largely unpunished and areas where it is a criminal offense that can lead to fines, suspension of driver's license, a criminal record etc. 88.88.186.14 (talk) 15:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
You're right that it is illegal to sell alcohol to a minor in Noway, or to specifically purchase on their behalf. It is not, however, illegal to give or provide it to them when there is no money involved. 83.109.42.74 (talk) 22:45, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

"Legal drinking age" could mean several things:

  • Minimum age of drinker for drinking in private (0 in Sweden)
  • Minimum age of drinker for serving in private (0 in Sweden)
  • Minimum age of drinker for drinking in public (e.g. in a park; 0 in Sweden I think)
  • Minimum age of drinker for serving in public (e.g. in a park; might be regulated in Sweden)
  • Minimum age of drinker for being served at a restaurant when drinker ≠ payer (0 in Sweden I think)
  • Minimum age of drinker for serving at a restaurant when drinker ≠ payer (18 in Sweden)
  • Minimum age of drinker for paying at a restaurant when drinker ≠ payer (18 in Sweden)
  • Minimum age of drinker for being served at a restaurant when drinker = payer (0 in Sweden I think)
  • Minimum age of drinker for serving at a restaurant when drinker = payer (18 in Sweden)
  • Minimum age of drinker for paying at a restaurant when drinker = payer (0 in Sweden I think)
  • Minimum age of drinker for buying in a shop (0 in Sweden I think)
  • Minimum age of drinker for selling in a shop (0, 18 or 20 in Sweden depending on the amount of alcohol in the product)
  • Minimum age of drinker for purchasing in a shop on behalf of the drinker (0, 18 or 20 in Sweden depending on the amount of alcohol in the product if the drinker pays the buyer for the service, might be 0 if the drinker gets the stuff for free)
  • Minimum age of drinker for receiving the stuff from the person purchasing it in a shop on behalf of the drinker (0 in Sweden I think, probably regardless of whether the person got the stuff for free or not)

There are maybe also other possible meanings, but it's not clear which one this article is using. "Buying in a shop" is probably the "purchasing age", but it's not clear if it's the minimum age of the buyer for the buyer not to commit a crime or if it's the minimum age of the buyer for the seller not to commit a crime. The "drinking age" could be any of the variants except for the shop ones. (Stefan2 (talk) 14:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC))

The map contradicts the text.

While the text says the legal drinking age in Australia, the map says there is no legal drinking age. The map is wrong; it should be changed. Michael Glass (talk) 12:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

And Poland is showed in incorrect way. Map removed, map creator informed Bulwersator (talk) 17:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


Argentina

Just to add something that should be added to the notes:

The source http://www.icap.org/Table/MinimumAgeLimitsWorldwide says 18 on premise which is only half true. In some countries such as the United States, it is illegal to supply alcohol to minors, but not in Argentina.

Article Nº 1 of the Law Nº 24788 states alcohol cannot be -sold- to minors of 18 years of age. It can be consumed on premise as long as it is bought by adults.

I could not find any information regarding the age for consumption on or off premise. I expected to find something such as Law Nº 23737 Article 14.2, which expressely prohibites personal consumption of drugs, not currently applicable because it was found unconstitutional for violating the Article 19 of the Argentine Constitution in the Fallo Arriola (Arriola Veredict) - Page 420 [heh..] of http://www.csjn.gov.ar/data/dsalud.pdf: "El artículo 14, segundo párrafo, de la ley 23.737, [...] es inconstitucional [...]".

In conclusion (until proven otherwise), it cannot be bought by minors, but it can be supplied to them (Except on Buenos Aires, by Law Nº 11748 Article 1). I don't think the [wikipedia] article clearly implies minors are free to drink alcohol in public, restaurants and venues as long as it is not purchased by them. 190.225.12.136 (talk) 07:49, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Laos

It seems that Laos is missing from this section. Can someone tell me why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.172.244 (talk) 16:56, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I can't find any reliable source on its drinking age from a quick google search. Do you know the drinking age? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 20:38, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Spam potsdam.edu page links -- August 2011

I have removed links to a spam site at potsdam.edu. Flowanda | Talk 05:44, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

What makes it a spam site? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 05:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Defending your edits are your job. However, history speaks for itself: [1]. Flowanda | Talk 06:34, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm sure they are. I personally added the potsdam reference here, knowing nothing about any spam or promotion. It remains the only source for a number of these countries, and there is no reason not to use it if another source is lacking. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 07:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Now that you know that it's a spam site not allowed or used on Wikipedia, I'll let you revert yourself to remove the links. Clearly, you understand that no source is better than a really bad source. Flowanda | Talk 07:27, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't see any consensus that it itself is a spam site, rather it seems that the author was spamming links to his site around wikipedia. This source does not appear really bad at all. Anyway, I have replaced it, I hope that suffices. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 07:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

The facts don't support your marketing, but other than throwing David J. Hanson under the bus, ICAP.org will do for me now. I'm sure there are many, many others. Flowanda | Talk 07:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Tanzania

Tanzania is missing. I believe the age is 18. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bondwonk (talk • contribs) 13:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done Chipmunkdavis (talk) 14:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

United Kingdom Think 25 Scheme

this scheme is in fact adopted by many large chain supermarkets in order to aid their public image. If a store miss sells alcohol then they will loose their license rather than been asked to adopt a different scheme. This link iforms you that it was actually developed by retailers who face severe fines should they miss sell. 

http://www.wsta.co.uk/challenge-25.html

Greetingsfriend22 (talk) 15:04, 12 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greetingsfriend22 (talk • contribs) 15:01, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Legal purchase age

This article is a load of bollocs. There is no legal drinking age. Anyone can drink alcohol from his/her birth onward. There is only legal purchase age and a law prohibiting ADULTS to give alcohol to minors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.201.212.157 (talk) 06:22, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

In the UK Police can (and do) seize alcohol from underage persons found drinking in public — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.213.110.4 (talk) 11:30, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Portugal

The legal drinking age in Portugal is still 16 and someone keeps changing it to 18... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.110.109 (talk) 20:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Underage Drinking

This article does mention the regulation of underage drinking in the United States, but it fails to mention the problems that still occur in the U.S. with minors breaking the law to underage drink. According to an article titled "Why do Adolescents Drink, What are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking be Prevented?" by Alcohol Alert, each year, 5000 young people under 21 die from underage drinking. About 1900 of these deaths are from car crashes, 1600 from homicides, 300 from suicide, and the rest from various accidents. Alcohol has become the drink of choice for teenagers and is present in almost any social setting. I would suggest looking up other information about the risks of underage drinking, which is prevalent with college students especially, and include those within this article so that the reader knows how big of a problem this has become in the United States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KakiK11 (talk • contribs) 03:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Drinking, specially binge drinking has severe medical consequences too. It isn't just accidents and drunk driving. The rise of binge drinking (and the fact that tax inflated alcohol price doesn't really regulate youth drinking anymore) has prompted the new Dutch cabinet to consider raising the limit to 21. 88.159.71.34 (talk) 17:09, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Italy's source vs written text

In the source provided for Italy's drinking age it states 16 however the actual text say 18?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.0.105.224 (talk) 16:57, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Both say 16, from what I can see. CMD (talk) 21:16, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

My Recent Changes

I realize that the countries I just moved to the European section aren't entirely within the traditional geographic boundaries of Europe. Having said that, Russia is also predominantly Asian as far as its territory's concerned, yet Russia is in the European section and rightly so. Malta is also in the European section, despite the fact it's a group of islands that are closer to mainland Africa than they are to mainland Europe.

So quite clearly, geography (in the strictest sense) isn't the only factor involved in classifying these countries. Generally, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Georgia and Turkey are considered to be part of the European bloc. These countries are also members of the Council of Europe and candidates for joining the European Union. Legally speaking, they're classified as European countries and, in this article's case, it makes more sense having them in the European section than in the Asian section.

--Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 01:04, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

What strict sense of geography are you using to classify continents? Continents were established by geographic convention, not by any particular set of rules. This idea of a European bloc is misguided with regards to continents, as it implies they are part of the European bloc in lieu of another bloc; an Asian block I assume. It also assumes the two are mutually exclusive, which they aren't. If you wanted to move political candidates, Kazakhstan is moving towards being part of the Council of Europe as well. Do you have a source for a legal classification of Europe? The EU rules are deliberately vague, merely noting a country must be "European". There's also no source at all saying they aren't "legally Asian" or anything like that. CMD (talk) 19:02, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
First of all, here are some facts. It is a fact that Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey are within the geographic boundaries of Europe. Therefore, they have every right to be classified alongside the other European states. This is an undeniable fact, regardless of your personal interpretation of what constitutes (or doesn't constitute) a 'European' country. Secondly, I applied the changes to this article all the way back in November 2012. Just by looking at the page history of this article, it becomes quite clear that you've been closely monitoring the article for the past 6 or 7 months. How is it that you never objected to these changes before? The countries, that I moved to the European section, remained there until late April 2013, when a unregistered IP user reverted my changes without providing any reasonable counter-argument or explanation in the talk page.
Russia is in both Asia and Europe, geographically speaking. But in this article, it was always in the European section, despite the fact that most of its territory lies in Asia. How different is Russia from Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey -- all of which are also Eurasian? The fact is, these countries are in Europe, even if partly, and are also recognized as European member states, both by the Council of Europe and the United Nations Organization (via its regional grouping scheme). As for Cyprus, it's an island and, technically, belongs to neither continents. But that also applies to Malta, yet Malta finds itself in the European section without any objection. Therefore, geopolitical classifications were taken into consideration, previously. So let's be consistent.
Also, now that you've mentioned Kazakhstan, I have no problem adding it to the European section as well. In fact, I originally intended to do that, so thanks for reminding me. Geographically speaking, it's just as European as it is Asian. Once it becomes a member of the European Council, it'll have even stronger reasons for being classified as European. By the way, the idea is to resolve the dispute first, before constantly reverting my changes. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 19:41, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
By the same argument, they also have the "right" (geography is a right?) to be classified among other Asian states. My personal interpretation has nothing to do with it. As much as you note the fact "these countries are in Europe", along the same lines it's also a fact that they're in Asia. The UN regional groupings actually place Turkey in Asia, or "Western Europe and Others". I don't know the minds of everyone throughout history, perhaps it's Russia's historical beginnings in Europe, which remains the location of its capital, or its population being primarily concentrated in the European area rather than the rather empty Siberia, but I've never seen it listed among Asian countries in a list which separates by regions (such a list may exist, I just haven't encountered it). I've never seen Malta like so on a list either. Trying to define continents on technicalities, such as you've tried with Cyprus, simply doesn't work. If islands can't be continents, how can the landmass near Cyprus be separated into three continents, Africa, Asia, and Europe? Aside from the Council of Europe, all of your arguments to place them in Europe apply equally, if not more so, to placing them in Asia. (And politically, Kazakhstan has tried to create a Central Asian Union.) I'm not around all the time, I don't see every edit on every page I watch. And contrary to your claim, the idea is to follow WP:BRD. CMD (talk) 20:04, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, technically speaking, there's no such thing as Asia or Europe per se. It's pretty much one vast continent known as Eurasia -- just to answer your question about the division of landmasses. But that philosophical argument is irrelevant. Anyway, the countries I listed in Europe are more European than they are Asian, which follows the same logic behind why Russia was also listed in Europe instead of Asia, despite most of its territory belonging to the 'Asian' continent. That's my point. It's all about the consistency of the article. If you want to put Turkey in Asia because most of its territory is in Asia, then you should do the same thing with Russia. But if you don't mind leaving Russia in Europe, due to cultural/historical reasons, despite the fact most of its territory lies within Asia, then you should do the same thing with countries like Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey, since they also follow the same principle. So which one is it going to be? Should we move Russia to the Asian section because of geography-only reasons, or should we move Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey to the European section because of a multitude of reasons (e.g. cultural, historical and partly geographic)? That's the only way the article can be consistent. I don't know why you're objecting to this because all you're doing is objecting to facts. And since you linked the Wikipedia rules, I take it you also know that constantly reverting an article has its own consequences? Anyway, I think we should either classify the countries in the article by exclusive geographic definitions, or by a combination of factors. What do you suggest, dramatic Chipmunk? :-P --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 21:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
You brought up the philosophical argument with regards to Cyprus, not me (and neglected that Eurasia is simply a subset of Afroeurasia). You've given no justification for why they are "more European than they are Asian", all you've shown is your personal interpretation. Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Georgia are centred in Asia, having their capitals and the majority of their populations in Asia, unlike Russia. This is simply a very common division of countries, and my suggestion is that we leave it as such, without making our own judgements on why Malta and Russia are never listed as African and European. CMD (talk) 22:22, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
LOL! Saying that these countries are more European than Asian isn't personal interpretation, my dear. They have more things in common with their immediate European neighbors, culturally and historically speaking, than they do with their Asian neighbors. It's a known fact; hardly original research. Furthermore, I responded with that argument because you implied that Russia was kept in the European section due to cultural/historical reasons, to which I pointed out must also be applied to Turkey et al. And besides, even if it was personal interpretation, how is it any different than your reasoning for keeping Russia in the European section instead of the Asian section, despite having most of its territory in the orient? I only mentioned the facts. Firstly, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey are within Europe, so there's nothing wrong with adding them to the European section. Geographically speaking, it's a valid justification. Secondly, these countries, in addition to Armenia and Cyprus, are members of the European Council. This means that placing them in Europe is also politically valid. So by geopolitical terms, they're European. After all, this is what you said earlier: Aside from the Council of Europe, all of your arguments to place them in Europe apply equally, if not more so, to placing them in Asia. But that's clearly not the case. Their membership in the Council of Europe is not the only argument for placing them in Europe. Geographically speaking, they're also European. Culturally and historically, they have more to do with European civilization than the civilizations of the East. So why don't these factors all add up to you? As I said earlier, it's about having consistency. Can you prove that the current state of the article is the most common way of dividing the countries? Based on what I see elsewhere, even offline, countries like Armenia, Azerbaijan, Cyprus and Turkey are hardly ever classified with the Asian countries. In cultural aspects, including sports, they're classified in Europe. In politics, they're part of Europe as well, and that doesn't only apply to the European Council or European Union's geographic understanding of the World's continents. Even the United Nations recognizes the countries in question as European states, which is why they're part of the 'Eastern European' regional group, with the exception of Turkey, which is in the 'Western European and Others' regional group. Geographically, they span both continents, but the cultures of these countries overshadow their Asian sides and mainly manifest their European sides. In any case, you haven't really provided a valid point for moving them back to the Asian section. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 23:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
Nadia, if you are "seeing Armenia, Azer., Georgia, Kazakstan, Cyprus, and Turkey ("Asia Minor") hardly ever classified with the Asian countries, then you're not looking in appropriate authoritative sources but at political affiliations or Eurovision. Continents are primarily physical geographic constructs, though of course the Asia-Europe divide, while mostly physical (Ural Mtns., Ural R., two big seas, straits, Caucasus Mtns.) have some secondary political or cultural considerations. Secondary. Continent groupings as here are not based on political-cultural affiliations (US was in SE Asia Treaty Org., Israel is not part of Europe) nor music nor sports. The UN Statistics Office (their main office for this) has them in SW Asia. These six are in most authoritative sources, most atlases, National Geographic (US), Times Atlas (UK), World FactBook, etc., as Asia, not Europe, when listings don't "double-list" (and "double-listing" (place in both) makes no sense here.) You mention consistency....this is how the authoritative sources (and other WP articles) do it....these six in Asia. DLinth (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
You misunderstand what the word "within" means; it means one is enclosed by the other. Two overlapping circles are not within each other. Your "known fact" only is as so because you're starting from the standpoint of assuming that they're European (circular reasoning). If you started off considering them Asian, and that they're similar to each other, then they're similar to their Asian neighbours. Also circular are your preconceived ideals of European vs Asian culture(s), if these countries are European or Asian (or both), then their culture is a European culture and/or an Asian culture. Neither is at any rate, culturally homogenous, and while there may be a developing sense of a pan-European culture, there is no single Asian culture to speak of. Lastly, are you suggesting Turkey is in Western Europe? Using the WEOG as justification for your position is tenuous, to put it lightly. Funnily enough, Cyprus is in the Asian group. CMD (talk) 22:48, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Chipmunkdavis, you don't need to exhaust your arguments any further. I've already conceded the discussion to you, thanks in part to DLinth's contribution to this talk page. But please don't try suggesting that my cultural classification of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Georgia and Turkey are based on circular reasoning. When it comes to modern-day culture and geopolitics, these countries have much stronger affiliations to their immediate European neighbors than their Asian neighbors. These are just facts, which were echoed by so many scholars throughout the past (e.g. Bernard Lewis, Samuel Huntington, etc), and are perhaps irrelevant to the geographic debate after I already conceded it to you. Anyway, there's clearly no need for continuing the debate because I've already been put in my place LOL. :-) --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 15:14, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting the cultural affinities are circular, I'm stating the ideas that such cultures are European and Asian are circular. Cultures have the annoying habit of switching. Anyway, the main problem with continents and continental borders is that for some reason some people attach a great deal of meaning to them, when they're just lines some geographers drew in the sand. I wasn't trying to put anyone in any particular place, but glad this finished so amicably. Cheers, CMD (talk) 16:16, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Citation needed

For Palestine section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.159.176 (talk) 22:04, 20 April 2013 (UTC)


About that, does the Netherlands use volume or mass to determine alcohol content? 77.162.73.53 (talk) 15:46, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Why have division at all?

Here's a general question. Is there anything to be gained from splitting the countries by continent? I reckon it actually hinders the reader. Either way they're shifting through an alphabetical list, and they could use a search function in both cases. However, if it was one list, we could make it sortable and allow readers to group them in a way that actually pertains to this page, which is by age. Thoughts? CMD (talk) 21:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Legal drinking age of Poland

Poland has no explicitly stated consumption age.
Purchase/serving age in Poland is 18. This is regulated by article 15 of the Act of 1982 on Upbringing in Sobriety and Counteracting Alcoholism (Ustawa o wychowaniu w trzeźwości i przeciwdziałaniu alkoholizmowi). The consumption age is not mentioned in the Act above or any other act for that matter. Therefore, there is no minimum consumption age in Poland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.164.163.91 (talk) 03:30, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Purchase age is classed as the drinking age in this article, and in many sources. See the lead of the article. The laws are to prevent children committing criminal offenses, but most countries with these laws put heavy penalties on anyone giving the alcohol to children, so there's no theoretical way for them to drink it. Laws are also often only made with regards to public areas, where the government has more control. Few countries legislate for private use (the UK is one). CMD (talk) 21:01, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Actually the whole point of having two categories purchase age, and drinking age is to differentiate between the two, as many legal systems, including Polish do. There are two acts that deal with the issue in Poland: Criminal Code, and the above mentioned law (Act of 1982 on Upbringing in Sobriety and Counteracting Alcoholism (let's call it USCA)). The USCA deals only with selling alcohol to persons under 18 years of age. The purchase age is therefore settled clearly at 18. Criminal Code, however, in article 208 punishes only "continuous and repetitive pushing minors into heavy drinking" (Polish word: "rozpijanie"). It has been proven in courts that casual distribution of alcohol to minors is legal.
Furthermore, a minor under Polish law, is an unmarried person below the 18 years of age. Since marriage in some circumstances is allowed at the minimum age of 16 in Poland, the Criminal Code article 208 will not apply to married people below the age of 18 either, because they are not considered minors. This applies to consumption in both public and private spaces, as well as licensed premises. For example, if alcohol is initially served to someone above the age of 18, and then this person hands it to a minor it is perfectly legal. Similarly, if minors do not violate any other laws by drinking in public, the alcohol cannot be seized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.74.119.237 (talk) 21:40, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
So minors can drink in public? If so, that would be a different situation. Can you add that with a source to the further information box, to explain this difference? CMD (talk) 22:03, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Drinking in public is a bit more complex issue in Poland. It is illegal for anyone (minor or adult) to consume alcohol "on streets, squares, and in parks with the exception of licensed premises", so there are very few places where it is legal in the first place, but there still are some. Of course minors can freely drink in public only if they obtained alcohol legally which is very rare. They would have to obtain the alcohol from parents or their 18+ friends for free (selling or acting as an agent is illegal). I will try to find some source that explains it well in English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.74.119.237 (talk) 22:45, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

two classes of adults

Having two classes of adults looks crazy to me. What prevents the government to introduce other restrictions for certain classes of adults, like getting elected only over 30? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.127.141 (talk) 03:10, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

That's a horrible example considering you do have to be 30 to run for the U.S. Senate. However, that is a Constitutional restriction and not a matter of ordinary statute. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 05:40, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Who told you there were employment exemptions in the USA?

Because there most certainly are not. Last time I checked, it is illegal to hire an underage person to work in a bar, restaurant, liquor store, any facility that manufactures alcoholic beverages, or even a warehouse that stores them. Period. That's the law. So please tell me: Where and when, exactly, would an employment exemption for underage possession law kick in, when all those places (sale, storage, and manufacture of alcoholic beverages) would in fact be subject to fines and the boss going to jail if they hired an employee who was not drinking age? If you need a source other than the fact I am a born-and-raised Pennsylvania boy who knows the law in his own state (PA) and country (USA), we can probably find sources to this effect on ATF.gov and FBI.gov, as well as all 50 State Liquor Control Board Websites.

You can't hire someone not himself or herself drinking age to serve alcoholic beverages to someone else or to store or manufacture them, unless you want jail time. The Law. End of conversation.

While there are no employment exemptions, there are indeed religious exemptions. The single sip of wine at Communion, for example, is exempt. That is why a Catholic under 21 can not be arrested for inbibing underage just for taking Communion.

Aside: We need to lower the drinking age. It is a major elephant-in-the-room social issue right alongside legalizing marijuana (which, thank God the USA is finally coming around to that after 83 years of Federal prohibition; it'll just take a non-deadlocked Congress at this point). I am not focusing on this, as Wikipedia isn't a Debate Forum or a Crystal Ball, but just throwing it out there that current law is extremely lacking in common sense.

Anyway, I have corrected this in the Article. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 05:57, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Their certainly is! Most states have a serving age of 18 in restaurants or even lower. I checked nearly all the serving laws for the article Working age. Areatius 23:44, 04. Oct. 2014 (CEST) — Preceding undated comment added 21:45, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Korean Drinking Age

Is the age of 19 in Korea by the Korean age system or the Western age system? This may want to be noted down in the comments. Zephyrus29 (talk) 14:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

UK Section

I think "confectory" should read "confectionery" but I'm using an iPad at present and editing was a nightmare even before the Mega-Global Fruit Corporation of Cupertino, USAnia gave us iOS 8. Could some kind person with a proper mouse and keyboard please do the necessary? kthxbai Mr Larrington (talk) 03:36, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I will try and edit the above typo now. Also the introductory paragraph contains an erroneous statement that it is illegal for under 18s to drink alcohol at home - this is not the case as stated in the appropriate act and can be seen in the drinkaware government information pages [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Byrdbraine (talk • contribs) 22:20, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

You misread the assertion and probably removed the only part of that statement that was accurate. Garik (talk) 17:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Drinking Age in Nova Scotia

On the map at the top of the page it seems to imply that the drinking age in Cape Breton is 19, but in the mainland of Nova Scotia it's 18. This is false AFAIK, it is 19 on the entirety of the province. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atmilios (talk • contribs) 02:56, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Map is incorrect for New Brunswick, Canada.

The legal drinking age of NB, Canada is 19. It's shown as 18 in the map. It's correct elsewhere on the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.106.70 (talk) 15:33, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Content and reliable citations

There seems to be far too much content that is either unsourced or inconsistent and I am interested in overhauling this article to make it more factual. As a general guideline I propose that:

  • Any unsourced edits are to be reverted
  • Any sources that are not dated are to be reverted (and noted as unreliable)
  • Any dead links should be removed and flagged with WP:CITENEED
  • All sources should be reliable, either from official news sites, official government sites, or reliable alcohol watchdog groups. No self-published references such as blogs
  • All sources be in English
  • Any content that is not cited should be removed from the notes column, but ages will be retained and flagged with WP:CITENEED

When displaying ages use the purchase age as the basis for the article. If the drinking age is different from the purchase age, these should be separately listed and appropriately referenced.

Please also cite references properly using WP:CITEHOW and include url, title, work, date and accessdate. I'm getting fed up of altering lazy citations without all the appropriate information. (Ajf773 (talk) 11:31, 2 June 2016 (UTC))

Content and reliable citations

There seems to be far too much content that is either unsourced or inconsistent and I am interested in overhauling this article to make it more factual. As a general guideline I propose that:

  • Any unsourced edits are to be reverted
  • Any sources that are not dated are to be reverted (and noted as unreliable)
  • Any dead links should be removed and flagged with WP:CITENEED
  • All sources should be reliable, either from official news sites, official government sites, or reliable alcohol watchdog groups. No self-published references such as blogs
  • All sources be in English
  • Any content that is not cited should be removed from the notes column, but ages will be retained and flagged with WP:CITENEED

When displaying ages use the purchase age as the basis for the article. If the drinking age is different from the purchase age, these should be separately listed and appropriately referenced.

Please also cite references properly using WP:CITEHOW and include url, title, work, date and accessdate. I'm getting fed up of altering lazy citations without all the appropriate information. (Ajf773 (talk) 11:31, 2 June 2016 (UTC))

legal drinking age Germany

did change the clause when youth is acompanied by parents from 13 to 14 as the law (Jugendschutzgesetz) clearly defines "Jugendlicher" as being of age 14 minimum. You can read it here: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/juschg/__1.html. "Im Sinne dieses Gesetzes ... sind Jugendliche Personen, die 14, aber noch nicht 18 Jahre alt sind". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsteinmann (talk • contribs) 12:44, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Poland has no drinking age, only purchase age

I provided source and updated the page. Please do not change this as Poland has no drinking age set in its laws, only a purchase and serving age. Purchase and serving age is 18. There is no consumption age. The act regulating this is the following: The Act on Upbringing in Sobriety and Counteracting Alcoholism — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.166.79.224 (talk) 04:53, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

  • Appreciate the edit. I am satisfied the information, with citation, is correct Ajf773 (talk) 10:49, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Map Error

The map incorrectly depicts the Canadian province of New Brunswick and part of the province of Nova Scotia as having a lower drinking age than they actually do. I'm not sure how to fix it, but I thought I should point that out. 142.68.249.188 (talk) 22:55, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

  • The map is out of date. Someone needs to correct it, when I have time I might. Ajf773 (talk) 23:33, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

How about Myanmar?

Myanmar is missing from the list. " section 21(6) of the 1928 Excise Rules, which forbids the sale of alcohol directly or indirectly to those under the age of 18. It also bans children under 16 from serving alcohol." Sale is banned to those under 18, though there is no specific law on the consumption of alcohol.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/10676-govt-rejects-minimum-drinking-age.html ~Steve — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.183.177.113 (talk) 18:25, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

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Cambodian law

Regarding this unreferenced change from "None" (referenced) to "21", the edit summary is "Cambodia's drinking age has been increased to 21", I found reports from last year and beyond on a draft law to this effect (Cambodia Daily or Phnom Penh Post), but couldn't find anything on the law being passed and applicable. (I searched English and a couple of other European languages, I don't speak Khmer etc.). If someone can find a source on this change being the law now, please add it! I, too, will continue to search, but will undo the edit if nothing comes up within the next couple of days. Thank you! ---Sluzzelin talk 15:30, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

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Removed map

I removed the world map of drinking ages because it was unsourced and it indicated that the legal drinking age in the US is 21 years, which is contradicted by other sources which state that the drinking age in the US varies by jurisdiction, i.e., each state determines its own laws regarding drinking age. Sparkie82 (t•c) 19:33, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

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World map removed

I've removed the world map of minimum drinking ages (again) because the map itself is unsourced and it had at least one error: it showed that the minimum drinking age in the US is 21, which is not correct. An editor tried to put the map back into the article without adding sources -- the map itself needs to have sources because it could be used in other articles. Sparkie82 (t•c) 16:17, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

  • Are you talking about the drinking age or purchase age? Ajf773 (talk) 19:28, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
The title of the article is "Legal drinking age". When I made my edit, I honestly didn't notice the differentiation between the title of the article and the data that the map is based on. As it is, it's confusing having the title of the article about "drinking age", but the map and article content about the purchase age. Searching the archives, I see that the article formerly defined "drinking age" saying "Legal drinking age refers to the youngest age at which a person is legally permitted to drink alcoholic beverages." That was changed several times and currently it says, "The legal drinking age is the age at which a person can legally consume or purchase alcoholic beverages", which is factually and linguistically incorrect. There are a lot of threads in the archive about the difference between the two.
I think to avoid confusion the title of the article should reflect the scope of the content. WP:precision says, "Usually, titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but no more precise than that."
In any case the sources for the data should be included in the map file page, as I said at that page. Thank you for pointing out the difference in the map data. Sparkie82 (t•c) 07:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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When was it lowered in Honduras?

Can anyone point to a source that says when the drinking age was lowered in Honduras? I know it used to be 21 in Honduras, but is now 18. It was lowered, but when? The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 05:27, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

  • Source says 18. If you can find another source verifying what you just said you can include it. Ajf773 (talk) 10:56, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
Oh yes, it's 18 in Honduras now! I said it used to be 21 in Honduras, but not anymore. I'm having trouble finding sources on when it was lowered. All I'm finding are Websites for resorts in Honduras that clearly haven't been updated in years. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 23:32, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Science Behind It?

IS there a scientific age that has been proven thats a "good age" for alcohol consumption?04:44, 27 April 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sierragrigsby (talk • contribs)

Articles for Advanced Research

“State History of MLDA 21, 1933-Present - Minimum Legal Drinking Age - ProCon.org.” Should the Drinking Age Be Lowered from 21 to a Younger Age?, 10 Mar. 2016, drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004484.

“ALCOHOL'S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN.” National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Oct. 2004, pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm.

“Underage Drinking.” National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Jan. 2006, pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA67/AA67.htm

Butler, Katy. “The Grim Neurology of Teenage Drinking.” The New York Times, The New York Times, 4 July 2006, www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/health/04teen.html.

Devenyns, Jessi. “How the Legal Drinking Age Has Changed Over Time.” Wide Open Eats, 9 June 2017, www.wideopeneats.com/how-the-legal-drinking-age-has-changed-over-time/.Sierragrigsby (talk) 02:19, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Legal Drinking age the Netherlands

The legal drinking age in the Netherlands is still 16 years! According to the Dutch government (http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alcohol/jongeren-en-alcohol)

"Leeftijdsgrens voor alcohol naar 18 jaar

Het kabinet wil de leeftijdsgrens voor alcohol verhogen naar 18 jaar. Het gaat hier om voorgenomen beleid. De inwerkingtreding is afhankelijk van goedkeuring door de Tweede en de Eerste Kamer en publicatie in het Staatsblad. Het streven is wel de verhoging in 2013 in te laten gaan."

(Translated) "Legal drinking age to 18 years

The cabinet will raise the legal drinking age to 18 years. Now, this is an intended policy. The policy will be taken in force when the House of Commons and the House of Lords will approve it and publicate it in the Staatsblad. We will aim to pass the bill in 2013."

Right now, the minimum age of drinking alcoholic beverages is still 16 (<15% ABV). The only thing that has changed is people under 16 years old are now prosecutable when posessing alcohol.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Koenieboy9 (talk • contribs) 15:51, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

China drinking age

Nowhere in China is there alcohol liscencing, any store can sell booze, and pubs and clubs are completely discretionary about serving, there is de facto no age for drinking. Indeed some people aren't even aware of the minuimum age, where is the reference for de jure?

http://www.drinkingmap.com/drinking-age-in-china.html http://www.expatsinchina.com/life/food/bars/drink-age.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.81.170 (talk) 09:05, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Malaysia

The drinking age in Malaysia has been raised to 21, but the map still lists it as 18. Can somebody please update the map to reflect the change?Sega31098 (talk) 07:21, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Source? The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 08:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Never mind. Use the source already cited in the Article. There should be a separate Talk Page for the map graphic, however, and you should bring up this point there. That is where you will find someone who knows how to update the map rendering. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 09:24, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Map incorrect for Canada

The Provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have the colour blue indicating an incorrect drinking age of 18. The age in these provinces is 19. Source: http://www.ccdus.ca/Eng/topics/alcohol/Pages/Legal-Drinking-Age-for-Alcohol-in-Canada.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trolledbypro (talk • contribs) 05:34, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Cape Breton island is marked purple, when it is actually part of Nova Scotia and should be of the same colour.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.189.231.103 (talk) 11:35, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Did my Forensics teammates lie to me about Canada?

Maybe. Other than what my teammates told me back in 2008 (said to be current law at the time), I'm having trouble finding any source that foreigners used to have to be 21 to drink legally in Canada. I'm just...Feeling I might have been lied to, I guess. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 22:31, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Probably. Bars aren't going to verify citizenship. CMD (talk) 03:54, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
When they check proof of age, your ID has the name of your state of province on it. That implies citizenship, just saying. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 08:10, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Many countries without states or provinces, not all IDs will have these, and it is possible to get such IDs without citizenship. CMD (talk) 08:26, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Oh well, at least I legally drank in Italy and Honduras when I was younger! The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 10:16, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Map

The map needs some changes particularly in Sakhalin AleksiB 1945 (talk) 22:26, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Without checking in detail, the map is just plain wrong for lots of countries like Germany where there are several age limits depending on the type of alcohol 8ya (talk) 17:48, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Reverted it back to the 2015 map, which is outdated, but at least seems to be somewhat accurate8ya (talk) 17:54, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  1. ^ https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/the-law-on-alcohol-and-under-18s
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