Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2020 August 31
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August 31[edit]
Mean/Median U.S. income[edit]
Does the U.S. government publish an accepted national mean or median (or both) yearly income per person? How about hourly income? I've found many data sources at data.census.gov that often contradict one another. So, I can easily state that the average person is currently making $11/hour (from one source) or $27/hour (from another source). I just want to know which one the government accepts as the primary source that they use. By "they", I primarily mean Congress. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 17:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- I believe you'll find the best data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, specifically the National Compensation Survey. --Jayron32 17:59, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Mean and median are great, but you need the 'range' for context. See Section 14 (c) of the Fair [sic] Minimum Wage Act of 2007, it details sub-minimum wages for disabled people. A great injustice that was first put into law in the Fair [sic] Labor Standards Act of 1938. Zindor (talk) 01:36, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hourly income is very different from hourly wage. Someone who has a full-time job of 40 hours per workweek for 50 weeks a year works 2000 hours per year, but a year has on average 8766 hours, so their hourly income (measured by clock hours) is only the 2000/8766th part of their hourly wage (measured by hours worked), which is less than a quarter. --Lambiam 12:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- I've never heard of "hourly income" as being measured across all hours a person is alive. Can you show a link to a source that gives this definition? As far as I know, it is only calculated across contract hours. I made a good faith search for any definition that draws the distinction you provide, and can find none. Hourly income is the same thing as hourly wage. --Jayron32 12:52, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- It may be unusual for the time unit of hours, but "monthly income" is income per calendar month, not per month of contract labour delivered, and likewise "dayly income" is income per calendar day, not per day of contract labour. "Income" includes other things than wages from wage slavery, such as social security benefits and the business profits of a self-employed person. A statement such as that "a daily income of $1-2 was the most prevalent standard of living in the world in 2001"[1] refers to income per calendar day; most people at this subsistence level are not employed. This is sometimes inconsistently applied, like defining daily income as weekly income divided by 5 (the number of workdays in a workweek). But how would you (or anyone) define the hourly income of a retired writer or artists who lives off the royalties of their past work, or the slumlord who lives off the rent received? --Lambiam 15:52, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not saying you've not invented for yourself a self-consistent way of using some bit of terminology. I'm saying your invention doesn't exist in widespread use outside of this conversation we're having now. What I am saying is "produce a source that uses the phrase "hourly income" in a way that makes it clear and unambiguous they are not merely using it as a synonym for "hourly wage" or draws some meaningful distinction between the two". "I think it's logical..." is not a source. Please produce a source. --Jayron32 16:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Imagine getting a job, agreeing to $20/hour, and then having the boss explain that if you extrapolate it out over your lifetime and then work back, he only has to pay you $1/hour. But, now that I think of it, that does happen in education. I often take yearly contracts for universities. We agree to a set salary, such as $60k for the year. But, because they are closed for the summer, I don't get paid for those four months. That is 1/3 of the year, so my actual salary is $40k. You have to read the fine print on education contracts because the listed salary is rarely the actual salary (and taxes haven't even come into it at this point). 97.82.165.112 (talk) 18:37, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not saying you've not invented for yourself a self-consistent way of using some bit of terminology. I'm saying your invention doesn't exist in widespread use outside of this conversation we're having now. What I am saying is "produce a source that uses the phrase "hourly income" in a way that makes it clear and unambiguous they are not merely using it as a synonym for "hourly wage" or draws some meaningful distinction between the two". "I think it's logical..." is not a source. Please produce a source. --Jayron32 16:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- It may be unusual for the time unit of hours, but "monthly income" is income per calendar month, not per month of contract labour delivered, and likewise "dayly income" is income per calendar day, not per day of contract labour. "Income" includes other things than wages from wage slavery, such as social security benefits and the business profits of a self-employed person. A statement such as that "a daily income of $1-2 was the most prevalent standard of living in the world in 2001"[1] refers to income per calendar day; most people at this subsistence level are not employed. This is sometimes inconsistently applied, like defining daily income as weekly income divided by 5 (the number of workdays in a workweek). But how would you (or anyone) define the hourly income of a retired writer or artists who lives off the royalties of their past work, or the slumlord who lives off the rent received? --Lambiam 15:52, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- I've never heard of "hourly income" as being measured across all hours a person is alive. Can you show a link to a source that gives this definition? As far as I know, it is only calculated across contract hours. I made a good faith search for any definition that draws the distinction you provide, and can find none. Hourly income is the same thing as hourly wage. --Jayron32 12:52, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hourly income is very different from hourly wage. Someone who has a full-time job of 40 hours per workweek for 50 weeks a year works 2000 hours per year, but a year has on average 8766 hours, so their hourly income (measured by clock hours) is only the 2000/8766th part of their hourly wage (measured by hours worked), which is less than a quarter. --Lambiam 12:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Mean and median are great, but you need the 'range' for context. See Section 14 (c) of the Fair [sic] Minimum Wage Act of 2007, it details sub-minimum wages for disabled people. A great injustice that was first put into law in the Fair [sic] Labor Standards Act of 1938. Zindor (talk) 01:36, 1 September 2020 (UTC)