Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 June 17

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June 17

How does the government dispose of bodies?

How do various governments usually handle bodies that don't have anyone claim them? Such as, if none of the relatives can be found, or aren't willing to pay for a funeral/burial, if the person can't be identified, or any other case where there would be a dead body with no one to claim it? -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 01:46, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

By "various governments" do you mean in the western world? In some third-world areas bodies rot where they drop, even in cities, or are dumped into the local river where bathing/drinking occurs --froth^t 01:52, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I mean "Various governments" as in any government that does *something* about the dead -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 01:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

See Potter's field and Hart Island, New York. Wikipedia doesnt have an article on Pauper's funeral/Pauper's grave/Paupers burial, but it should. Google these terms for more info. They are the expressions commonly used in the U.K for the circumstances you described. I dont know about the U.S. Basicaly in any developed country a body with no-one to claim it will be buried, or maybea cremated. Some countrys would have a brief funeral ceremony, even if its just a priest saying a few words, with no relatives there. Willy turner 02:50, 17 June 2007 (UTC) According the the charity Help the Aged, in the UK "If there is no money to pay for the funeral, the local council should arrange and pay for a simple funeral (or sometimes the hospital will do so if the person died there). This will be a dignified funeral followed by cremation or burial, and is not like the old 'pauper's' funeral."[1] Willy turner 03:01, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)It is very likely to vary greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. All the references I looked at talked of burying the body at government expense, once it was established there were no claimants for it. It would appear that there is a set fee that goes to a funeral home for such services. Here's how they handle it in Norfolk [2]. Bielle 02:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Cleveland, Ohio's pauper's cemetery is on city-owned land in the suburb of Highland Hills. There was an article in The Plain Dealer about it a few years back. -- Mwalcoff 03:49, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

In WV, if next of kin or advance directives are not found, the Department of Health and Human Resources takes control of the body, and offers it to the Anatomical Board first. If the Anatomical Board won't accept the body, the Department has to make funeral arrangements, at which point, I think they arrange to have it cremated and the ashes buried. Seiran 05:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

They once covered a (UK) free funeral in A Life of Grime; the priest (the ceremony is based on a Christian funeral, but avoids mentioning religion if the religion of the dead is unknown) reads the full ceremony to an empty room at a council-run crematorium (chairs are provided should anyone turn up - often the only person do so is the council officer who found the dead person), and then the coffin is then cremated and the ashes spread outside the hall. Laïka 06:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Coming at this late, I'd point out that it varies wildly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction even in the US. Generally if the person's identity is known but they don't have anyone to bury them (more common than you'd think), the authorities bury them in a potter's field. If the body hasn't been identified, though, most authorities will hold on to them for a while in cold storage. They may either distribute a photo of the person's face or, if that's impractical (say the body has decomposed), will get a forensic artist to draw a picture of what the person would have looked like in life. If they bury or cremate the body they'll usually keep tissue and bone specimens for DNA and usually the teeth. --Charlene 20:19, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Why do boxed Macaroni & Cheese products lose all flavor within an hour after cooking?

If you've eaten Kraft Deluxe Macaroni and cheese, Velveeta Shells & Cheese, or any store brand, you should know what I'm talking about. Instantly after cooking, these products have a potent, sharp, cheesy flavor. Within one hour of cooking, practically all of that flavor vanishes. Specifically, I'm wondering about products with the LIQUID cheese sauce. I don't know if the powdered versions are affected. Most people I've asked thought it was because of the effect cooling has on sugars in cereals,breads and pastas, but since the flavor is IN the sauce, and doesn't reappear in any form after reheating, that answer doesn't make much sense. If you know (specifically) why this happens, chemically, the action of an ingredient, or other process, or if you know how to prevent it, I'd be most appreciative. If your answer references a web source, please outline your steps to find it. I've searched for this answer every few months over the last few years, and never found an explanation, and only a few complaints about it. So, I'd also like to know what you did that I (apparently) didn't. Thanks in advance. 68.119.223.51 07:17, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but I've always suspected it's because the starch of the pasta, combined with the starch in the powdered sauce, absorbs enough of the water to throw off the effects of the sauce. I've noticed this with all the pasta I've ever made where I add the sauce at once and eat the pasta over time. The effect could be exacerbated by the artificial nature of the flavours. Now I just do what I learnt when I was working at an Italian restaurant; I keep the sauce and the pasta separate and combine at each meal. Don't know if that helps you at all, it's not a very scientific answer. Anchoress 07:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe because all the flavours are synthetic and are merely added on, which dissipates very quickly? --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:35, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

So, the powdered kind does this also? (I've never had it). My question was specifically about the non-powder (Deluxe for Kraft, or the regular Velveeta) sauce, but if this affects the powdered, I'll assume the ingredients are similar. I'm pretty sure what you mentioned is a contributing factor. However, there are a few things that point to some other cause. First, adding more water and reheating doesn't return any of the flavor. Second, for every other pasta + sauce I've had, it retains enough flavor over several days to taste good, or at least be identifiable. :) Example: My mom's spaghetti. She usually tosses any leftover pasta into the sauce. She says some flavor is absorbed into the pasta, and it definitely is. While a reheated bowl of this doesn't taste quite as fresh or pungent as a new batch, it still has plenty of flavor. It's even better the next day. Third, and most importantly, I've found if you melt the sauce in a pan without adding the pasta, then let it cool, it still loses all flavor within an hour. So, regardless of brand, the flavor of this cheese sauce completely vanishes in an hour. Keeping it warm, covering it, reheating, adding extra water/oil/sugar/salt, even storing it in a vacuum bag, (tried them all) after that magic hour, the stuff will taste like unflavored, congealed pudding stuck to pasta. It's really a dramatic change, and pretty much ruins it as a leftover, and that's why I want to know why it happens. I'm half-thinking this behavior is by design, and is something in the chemical composition of the sauce. If you think about it, this would be an excellent way to increase sales to the regular consumers of this stuff (kids, single men and college students). Remove its palatability, people open a new box instead of saving it as leftovers. I'd really like to have this disproved before it turns into a full-blown Kraft conspiracy theory, but the fact is, this is an extremely profitable product for the companies that make it, and it's the only processed food product I've tasted with this unusual behavior (on all brands across the category, no less). For example, a few Hamburger/Chicken/Tuna Helper brand products with a pasta and cheese sauce that don't lose any flavor at all.

Antilived answered while I was writing this, and I think that answer may be (partly) the likely reason, but I want to know what the actual cause is, not just the same best guess I've had all along. :) I want to know what specific ingredient, effect, chemical reaction, whatever is causing it, and why. Yes, there is artificial flavoring and color in this sauce, but the ingredients DO contain real cheese, so you'd think some flavor should remain. However, since nearly 100% of the flavor vanishes in an unnaturally short period of time, and since it's not related to the pasta, it's pretty obvious something is evaporating, dissipating or decomposing. Either way, there's something weird about that cheese sauce that doesn't occur in other foods. If I can figure out how, that makes it easier to find out why. 68.119.223.51 09:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC) -Kelaniz

Yeah I know, I'm curious too. I've noticed that at least for the powdered stuff, it's even more time sensitive than an hour; basically if it isn't eaten in 10 minutes it's crap. Not that I eat KD that often, lolz. That's one of the reasons; I'm a slow eater, and I don't even enjoy the bottom half of the bowl as much as the first half. Anchoress 09:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Glad to know it's not just me. :) I also rarely eat the stuff, (any food with this behavior can't be that good for you) but when I do succumb, I always scarf as much as possible, because I know I'll probably toss the leftovers. I hope someone's knows the answer to this. It's not a "What is the secret of the Universe?" type question. This definitely has an answer. Due to the quasi-food nature of this, I considered posting in the Science refdesk. :) 68.119.223.51 10:21, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure it's not just a matter of temperature? I could easily imagine that there is much more flavor when it's freshly made (and therefore hot) than an hour later (when it's cooled down). Are you talking about re-heating it an hour later? If so - then maybe the way that you are reheating it is having some effect. SteveBaker 12:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, that's not it. It doesn't matter whether it's heated once, twice, or left to cool and reheated. Even if you keep it warm after you first cook it, by an hour later, the flavor is completely gone. As Anchoress said, she'd notice the flavor at the end of a bowl being significantly different than those first few bites. I know I typed half a novel above, so let me try to condense. Freshly prepared sauce = Rich, Appealing Aroma, Taste = Loud, Sharp, Artificial Cheese. No matter what you do (or don't do), around one hour later, Aroma = Cooked Pasta and Taste = Sticky Cooked Pasta. In case anyone suggests this may due to olfactory and/or taste desensitization after eating it, let me also note: this occurs whether or not you ate it while it was fresh. The flavor completely vanishes in one hour. Exposure to heat, oxygen or lack thereof, adding water/salt/sugar and even flash-freezing in liquid nitrogen immediately after cooking will not prevent it, or bring it back. Over an hour, I think something chemical is happening to this food, and that's what I need to know. No other food does it. Think about it. Most other food is processed to retain flavor, aroma and texture for as long as possible. That only these products become practically inedible inside an hour seems really strange. 68.119.223.51 20:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC) -Kelaniz

The texture of pasta in general suffers from time. The pasta continues to absorb moisture, changing the texture from "al dente" to mush. As for the flavor of mac & cheese, components of the flavor may very well evaporate. StuRat 06:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

One reason is salt. Much of the flavour of KD and similar products comes from the sheer amount of salt in them. Refrigerating leftovers (and this applies to virtually everything, not just KD) seems to cut down on the saltiness. For most foods there's enough real food to still give good flavour, but with KD the salt *is* the flavour, so when you refrigerate it it becomes bland. It still has all the sodium it had before, of course: but for some reason you don't taste it.

I don't know why salty foods lose their saltiness after refrigeration, though: it's just universal. --Charlene 19:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The moral of this is to cook your own pasta yourself, and add some grated cheese if you want. Its cheaper, almost as quick, and much healthier.80.0.132.197 20:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, we're just going in circles now. I'm going to just ask this question in the Science RD. I do appreciate all the answers, and some information has been useful. However, most people aren't reading the original post (or the follow-up) where it states that the sauce left in the cooking vessel, with NO pasta added, covered and kept warm for roughly one hour will still turn bland. Also, adding salt, water, sugar afterward doesn't delay or revert the effect. It's obvious something is changing, though since this has been tested in a vacuum, It's not evaporation. Vacuum aside, if it was evaporation, the sauce would still have a salty taste, which it doesn't at ALL. Also, there's the issue of the dozens of other processed-instant-food products with cheese sauces (and similar ingredients for those sauces) that don't mimic this behavior. It's purely a Mac & Cheese/KD thing, and looking at the ingredients, there's no logical reason for it. That's what I'm trying to figure out. The sheer speed and completeness of this stuff's degradation isn't like any other processed food, and it's just not something that food should do. Thus, it's starting to look more and more like intended behavior on the part of the manufacturers. If that's the case, that's something I wouldn't mind knowing. Note: I don't eat this stuff frequently, perhaps twice a year when I'm out of everything else. But a lot of people do eat it frequently. Some daily. That cost has gotta add up over time. 68.119.223.51 21:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Not only can evaporation take place into a vacuum, it should take place even more quickly than into air. (Did you really evacuate all the air for an experiment ?) StuRat 04:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

StuRat's absolutely right. I misspoke. I should have said pressure. Yes, we put cheese sauce under a vacuum. You would not believe all the quasi-experiments myself and others have performed on this stuff. Immediately after cooking it, we've flash-frozen, freeze-dried, put under vacuum (2 kPa, I believe), put under similar pressure, and several other less-than-scientific procedures. This took place when I was in college, when 90% of our diet was pizza, Mac & Cheese and, naturally, Ramen. We were all curious about why this particular food seemed to rapidly become totally devoid of flavor. So rapidly, in fact, the difference between the first and last bites from a bowl were like eating a piece of cheese followed by an eraser. At some point, I called Kraft's 800 number a few times to inquire about it. The stock reply was always "It doesn't. Check the expiration date." However, during one call I was given the common "pasta absorbs flavor" theory. Ultimately, we couldn't figure it out. When we all got jobs and our budgets increased, we began eating real food. Consequently, our supply of material (and time) for any further experiments vanished. This was fourteen years ago. Ever since, a few of us occasionally put out the question, in hopes of finding a definitive answer. For anyone who remembers Fidonet, I created a thread there about this oddity around 1986. No one knew the answer then, either. In case anyone is silently wondering, yes, I'm quite aware this is a really trivial/stupid subject. However, I've always been somewhat of a know-it-all, and this is one of the last answerables that remains a total mystery to me. Even as I've made my peace with the tough questions like: What existed before God? This stupid food behavior remains to put me in my place. 97.82.254.213 09:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC) kelaniz

Wow, you've proven whether God exists but are baffled by mac & cheese ? :-) I'm still wondering what atmospheric conditions you used which prevent all evaporation. Does the "clock" start from the cheese sauce being opened, from it being heated, or from either ? If it starts when the container is opened, I'd guess it's oxidation. StuRat 19:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say I had the answer! I just said I'd made my peace with it! :p Let's see. Of the five of us that were conducting these experiments, there were two Chemistry majors, one Biology, one History and one Music Composition. Guess which one I was. :) From what I recall, the first test showed the "clock" pretty much started after heating. While an uncooked block of sauce left open to the air did have a little loss of flavor (the cheese's sharpness), most of that flavor remained unaffected. One of the chem guys tested for evaporation by heating it on low heat, just until it melted, then we all verified it had its typical post-cooking flavor. then he poured the sauce into a vacuum bag and hooked it up to the lab's vacuum pump. Putting it under vacuum took less than a minute. Note: We did this test twice. The first time, we immediately removed the vacuum and tasted the sauce to ensure the flavor hadn't been sucked out with the air. However, It was still there. Also, as the vacuum was applied the sauce bubbled (cheese sauce ebullism?) so little, it was practically nonexistent. For the second test, we left the sauce under vacuum for an hour, then under magnification, we checked the surface to see if any small air bubbles had formed at the surface (I'm guessing he anticipated a VOC or something similar?). We didn't see any bubbles. We also verified the pressure gauge hadn't changed. Still, the flavor was completely gone. While we waited, Chem guy #2 duplicated the procedure, but instead of leaving the sauce under vacuum, he pressurized it with Helium. I'm guessing this was to check for oxidation, but I'm thinking he also just wanted to show off his Chipmunk voice. Either way, the flavor vanished in both tests. I'm fairly sure there were flaws in our science. Back then, I definitely didn't know chemistry as well as I do now. Still, I'd like to think any flaws in our method were minor, and would still have allowed for some kind of usable result :) Anyway, oxidation sounds very plausible. I just wonder which ingredient(s) are affected. I've never heard of Ch₂O₂ = Cheese Oxide before! :) 97.82.254.213 23:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC) - kelaniz

What is the best free web based resource for information, pictures, and tips about outdoor landscaping and plant care?

I have gardenias, azelia's, a myrtle, marathon sod, mexican heather, some slow growing trees that I dont know the names of, and a few others that I cant think of their names. I know very little about what to do for specific plants other than giving them water. I can follow directions but I need a good resource with good practical advice about growing, blooming, when to do what, and how to identify common house and yard plants in Southern California on the beach (within a mile) south of LA. Thank you for your help.

Try www.digitalseed.com, home-n-stuff.net/gardening/socal, Southern California Horticultural Society, or googling southern california gardening. Willy turner 13:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Others have taken photos of their items and posted it here asking "What is this?" Someone usually knows. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 16:19, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Wigmore charts

How does one create/use/read a Wigmore chart?--Rambutan (talk) 12:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Could you provide a link to such a chart? I've never seen one, but mabye I could figure it out if you gave an example. —Bromskloss 11:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Searching Google images brings up a few useful-looking links, such as this one (where the writers conclude that "Wigmore's method of charting evidence and inference sank like a lead balloon"). You might also try talking to Cutler, who created the Wikipedia stub.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

What song is in this video?

I was looking at a Youtube video [[3]] and I was wondering what song was used in it. It sounds familiar but I can't put my finger on it. --Blue387 18:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Sounds too high-quality to be it, but if it's familiar, possibly a song from SimCity? Sounds like a rather generic song though -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 19:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

It's some version of "Cantaloupe Island", originally by Herbie Hancock. --Joelmills 19:58, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Airports + routes from Panama, Costa Rica and Dominican Republic

Dear all,

I am searching for a data source that will allow me to track he number and destination of international flights from the major airports of the above 3 countries.

If anyone has information on this, I would be very grateful.

Thanks 201.221.240.54 19:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

You can use this site to research departures from any airport. Panama has just one major international airport: Panama City's Tocumen International Airport (IATA code: PTY). Costa Rica has San Jose's Juan Santamaría International Airport (IATA code: SJO) and Liberia's Daniel Oduber Quirós International Airport (LIR). The Dominican Republic has seven airports with significant international commercial traffic: The busiest by far is Santo Domingo's Las Américas International Airport (IATA code: SDQ). Then there are Puerto Plata's Gregorio Luperón International Airport (POP), Santiago's Cibao International Airport (STI), Higüey's Punta Cana International Airport (PUJ), La Romana's La Romana International Airport (LRM), Samaná's [[Samaná El Catey International Airport (AZS), and Santo Domingo's La Isabela International Airport (JBQ). You can type these codes into the site listed above for each date in a selected week to give you a snapshot of a week's traffic. There may be some seasonal variation in flight patterns—for example, many of these airports may have flights to more destinations in the United States or Canada during the winter months—but this exercise will give you a fairly good picture of traffic patterns. Marco polo 00:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

PS3 memorycard adaptor

Is there a way that I can rent one of these or borrow one or something because I don't want to spend $15 on something I'll only use once.--71.175.130.136 19:44, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Try checking down at a Blockbuster video. At least where I live, they rent most system accessories. --Haemo 20:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

People saying the PS3 is too expensive

What percent of xbox360 users subscribe to xbox live gold(needed for online play)? To cover the console's lifespan, this would cost at least $250, whereas PS Network is free. Plus $400 for the console totals to $650. And PS3 is expecting a $100 price cut for the holiday season. $650>$500.--71.175.130.136 21:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

A quick google seems to come up with figures around 10% of xbox360 users subscribing to xbox live, of which a portion would be gold. Vespine 00:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Big cat refuge in oregon?

When I was about 8 years old, my family had a Siberian Lynx as a pet. Without going into too much detail over the whole thing (if you want to ask about it, use my talk page), we wound up giving her to a sanctuary/refuge type place, in the northwestern United States, either Oregon or Washington (most likely oregon). Unfortunately, nobody now can seem to remember the name or URL of the place. I asked my mother about it, and she thought of the name "Angel Eyes", although we aren't sure if this is correct, and google doesn't seem to return any results. Does anyone know of any private collectors or small organizations in the region that it might be? I'd really like to find info on her, even if she's long since gone I'd like to find out what happened, and maybe visit. Heck, I almost wouldn't mind adopting another, depending on the legal issues involved... caring for her wasn't too bad. -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 21:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Wild Cat Haven in Sherwood, Oregon? Neutrality^talk 04:54, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

They don't seem to have her, but then they only seem to list their current cats, it's been a long time, it's not much of a stretch to think she's died, and she's almost surely been adopted if they allow their cats to be. Thanks for the site, I'd still appreciate any other ideas anyone has -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 07:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Wild guess, Cat Tales. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 04:27, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Hang out places in DC?

Hi, I am a college student and I am travelling to Washington, D.C. for the summer. I need to hang out with people all the time or I will get lonely. So I was wondering where the young people hang out in the Washington area, so I can meet new people. Thanks. --131.215.167.225 23:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Georgetown. Corvus cornix 02:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

U Street Corridor Bunthorne 04:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

As a Clinton intern back in the day, Adams Morgan was rarely a let-down. Wolfgangus 05:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

question

same as above for Vancouver, BC 209.53.181.150 23:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Gastown. Corvus cornix 02:09, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest Yaletown ;) --Haemo 03:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Since everyone else is doing it, I'll join in too. Where can I go in Portsmouth :) HS7 16:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)