Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 October 24

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October 24

The Conn

Is apparently a position aboard a naval vessel. I'd heard it used on Star Trek, in which starships are generally run similarly to naval vessels. Anyway, I was curious about the word. Googling sent me to our page for Officer of the Deck, where it says that "Typically, the Junior Officer of the Deck has the "conn" or control of the engines and rudder." Is "conn" just short for "control of the engine" or is it a distinct word unto itself? The second "n" is making me wary of just assuming that it's as simple as that. Matt Deres (talk) 00:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

It's from the verb conn, meaning to direct the steering of a ship. The noun meaning the action of conning or the place from which one conns is a later development. The OED traces the etymology back via cond (with the same meaning), condue (meaning to conduct or guide in general), and old French conduire to the Latin conducere, to conduct. Algebraist 00:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Also Conning tower... AnonMoos (talk) 04:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

So I was right to be wary! Thanks for the explanation. I'm going to tweak our OotD article and get rid of the scare quotes. Thanks again. Matt Deres (talk) 15:52, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Those weren't scare quotes, they were definition quotes. This is an alternative to italics for marking a word being defined. However, the "i.e." that you introduced serves the same function, so that's fine. --Anonymous, 03:43 UTC, October 25, 2010.

My impression is that conn is the more commonly used term on a submarine, but helm is more common on surface vessels. Googlemeister (talk) 15:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Interesting observation, Googlemeister, especially since the OP made reference to the terms' usage in Star Trek. I've noticed that in the original series, Sulu was often referred to as being the helmsman, while in TNG, Data would be at the conn. — Michael J 19:56, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Can't find a reference at the moment, but the helmsman is the burly chap who heaves the ship's wheel around. He doesn't actually "direct the steering of the ship" which is a rather more skilled occupation. Note that on a submarine, the controls are down in the control-room while the actual navigation of the boat (at least while surfaced) is done from the tower. Alansplodge (talk) 00:11, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Spanish graffito

This morning I saw the following written in the dust on a window: SON PUTOS LOS CHISMOSOS MAMEN BERGA FAK... I cautiously translate this as, "Gossipers are fags! All y'all go suck dick!" But I'm not at all sure about "mamen", whether it's a straightforward imperative or some sort of cryptic subjunctive. And I don't know what to make of "FAK", given that it's not a Spanish word, and given the lack of punctuation. Presumably it's an anglicism, but is it a butchered version of "fuck" or "fag" or something else? Given the writer's general attitude to orthography ("berga" for "verga"), I suppose it could be an attempt to render "fuck", "fag", or even "fake". Anyway, "FAK" is what's bothering me, both because I can't figure out its grammatical function and because I can't even rule out the possibility that it's some special Spanish/Spanglish/Salvadorean term. (Where I live, most Spanish-speakers are Salvadoreans.) Also I'm curious about the mood of "mamen". It's not that I demand perfect coherency from graffiti, it's just that I'm not competent to decide whether or not this is incoherent, and that's bothering me. LANTZY^TALK 16:16, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Mamen is just the normal, standard imperative of mamar in the ustedes form, isn't it? That's what it looks like from opening up the conjugation table at wikt:mamar#Spanish. —Angr (talk) 18:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. It's also the form for the subjunctive present for ustedes, but context calls for the imperative form. Possible is the compound form of verb in the third-person singular present + object; that would be here mamavergas, with the meaning you (are) dick-suckers. Of course, this is not the case here.
I guess the form FAK can be, as Lantzy says, a typo for fuck. I have found some [1] [2] references of a humourous usage (fuck intented, in a comical way), but those are peninsular, while the ustedes form points to a Latin American use, I assume. Pallida  Mors 19:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it a typo in graffiti. A slip of the spray can perhaps? More likely, simply a misspelling (possibly deliberate). —Angr (talk) 20:59, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, agreed, thanks for clarifying it. Pallida  Mors 22:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, would "berga" likely be understood as a humorous misspelling, like "Jeezus" or "Earf", or would it more likely be perceived as an error, like "brocolli" or "firey"? LANTZY^TALK 00:24, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

No, that would be perceived as a plain mistake; not uncommon of many dirty words that you don't see written frequently. Neither the dirty meaning nor the formal one are (very) well-known written descriptors. Pallida  Mors 09:26, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! LANTZY^TALK 11:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Irish Surname

Evening Forum :)

I am wondering anyone can help provide an Anglicisation for the Irish surname (Ní) Dhorchaidhe? Many thanks doktorb _words^deeds 19:51, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Ní Dhorchaidhe is the feminine form of the surname Ó Dorchaidhe, which is traditionally anglicized Darcy (see Walter Riabhac Ó Dorchaidhe and http://www.darcyfamily.com/). —Angr (talk) 20:53, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Superb, thanks for that Angr 78.86.102.100 (talk) 21:42, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Not Docherty? 109.170.169.29 (talk) 07:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Doherty/Docherty is "Ó Dochartaigh" in Irish Gaelic[3][4][5]