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April 3[edit]

Martin Luther King Jr. quote and the Birmingham jail[edit]

Resolved

I'm trying to compose a synopsis for the film article God & Country, but as luck would have it, I keep getting hung up by the very first scene. The film opens with William Barber II giving a voice over as a small town with churches is shown. The problem is that I can't seem to track down what Barber is talking about. I mistakenly assumed Barber was referring to the famous "Letter from Birmingham Jail", but there's nothing really in that letter that refers to this quote, so Barber must be referring to something else, but what it is I cannot say. Here's the quote: "When he was in the Birmingham jail, Dr. King said, 'When I look at all the injustices in the world and I drive past churches and I see these high steeples, I ask myself, What kind of people worship there? What do they care about? Are they at work in the world for those things which look like love and look like justice and look like truth? What are they?'" Any ideas what Barber is referring to here? I think there's a possibility that Barber is metaphorically summarizing the famous Letter in a poetic manner, and that makes a certain kind of sense, but it also strikes me as slightly odd and unusual to my ear. Surely, Barber must be referring to something else? Viriditas (talk) 10:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: It looks like there are many different edited versions of the letter, which is something I wasn't aware of at all. Apparently, some of the most popular versions online do not include this full quote, which I have found in other, more original versions. This is a bit troubling, as most people aren't actually reading what MLK wrote and intended to be read. Viriditas (talk) 19:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how, since MLK's quotations are all around us and his legacy has been so well-managed in that regard. After all, to directly quote him 100% absolutely verbatim, he told people "I was a drum major for justice, peace and righteousness." SamuelRiv (talk) 05:06, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was honestly quite surprised to discover that the majority of the copies of the "Letter from Birmingham Jail" online are not the original. Most of the top links don't have the quote. This is pretty crazy, to be honest. I can't say that I've ever run into this kind of thing before. Viriditas (talk) 07:42, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For those unfamiliar with this, here is the text in full (linked in our article):

I have traveled the length and breadth of Alabama, Mississippi and all the other southern states. On sweltering summer days and crisp autumn mornings I have looked at the South's beautiful churches with their lofty spires pointing heavenward. I have beheld the impressive outlines of her massive religious education buildings. Over and over I have found myself asking: "What kind of people worship here? Who is their God? Where were their voices when the lips of Governor Barnett dripped with words of interposition and nullification? Where were they when Governor Wallace gave a clarion call for defiance and hatred? Where were their voices of support when bruised and weary Negro men and women decided to rise from the dark dungeons of complacency to the bright hills of creative protest?"

Alansplodge (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zero-elasticity good[edit]

What could a zero-elasticity good be classified as? This image about the types of goods says that a good is normal if its elasticity is positive and inferior if its elasticity is negative. In which class of goods would a good with elasticity 0 belong? Alfa-ketosav (talk) 19:48, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It appears you are referring to "elasticity of demand" and not physical elasticity. Zero elasticity of demand is commonly referred to as perfectly inelastic demand, popular enough that PED is commonly used. It means that the quantity of the goods does not change with the price. Examples are commonly very high-end goods. For example, the quantity of gold available is not based on the price of gold. However much may be mined is how much is mined. If the price drops, mining continues. If the price increases, mining continues. Another example is high-end luxury cars. If a luxury car maker plans to produce 100 cars a year, the maker produces 100 cars a year. It is as simple as that. It doesn't increase or decrease production based on the current selling price of the cars. It is almost like you are claiming a complete disconnect between the producers of the goods and the consumers. The producers produce at a specific rate that they want to produce at. Consumers consume based on a demand that has nothing to do with quantity. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 17:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're talking about price elasticity of demand, but Alfa-Ketosav is talking about income elasticity of demand. --Trovatore (talk) 18:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think these examples are inaccurate. Also, OP was asking about income elasticity of demand on the chart, not price elasticity of demand. Regardless Luxury goods in particular have high positive income elasticity or paradoxically negative price elasticity of demand. Mining, even for gold, certainly does depend on the price of gold, and even in a fixed gold standard gold mining is still subject to market pressure. (Just as an exercise, the price of gold may always be high, but if it suddenly doubles, then the incentive increases to invest in new gold mines or reopen closed ones.)

Goods that have virtually 0 price elasticity of demand are those where the quantity demanded does not change with a good's price increase or decrease (for a significant range). Similarly, goods with 0 income elasticity of demand are those where the quantity demanded does not change with consumer income increase or decrease (for a significant range). A necessity good has <1 income elasticity of demand (but there's probably only a few such goods that have nearly 0 price elasticity just because of how consumers make decisions) -- you can see examples in that short article, such as lifesaving ~~or addictive~~ fixed-dose drugs [edit: the article is wrong; all cigarette & street drug studies I've seen show elasticity ~1]. (Of course, once subsidies and insurance comes into play, something like a necessity lifesaving once-daily drug may always be covered regardless of what happens at the margins.) In case you were wondering, the theoretical market with 0 price elasticity of demand (not income elasticity) is called perfect competition, and a often-cited example is basic agricultural products. SamuelRiv (talk) 18:28, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I do refer to elasticity of demand. Thanks for the information. Alfa-ketosav (talk) 07:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Imagine one needed to pay for the air one breathes. Air is an absolutely essential good, so whether the price goes up or one's income goes down, one cannot economize by breathing less. And when the price goes down or one's income goes up, one wouldn't start breathing more. This is a hypothetical scenario, but life-saving drugs such as insulin and anti-cancer medication may be in this category. --Lambiam 18:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the examples too. Alfa-ketosav (talk) 07:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]