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October 13[edit]

American politicians and media support for Israel[edit]

This is not a forum for debate. If anyone has a specific question that is not a request for "opinions, predictions or debate", please feel free to ask in a new section below. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:18, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

USA attacked Vietnam and then made a movie Rambo-First Blood part 2. The movie showed that Vietnamese are bad guys and the movie was second highest grossing film in 1985.

USA attacked Iraq and hates Iran.

USA blindly supports Israel and don't care how many Palestinians die in Israel retaliation.

The U.S. dropped 26,171 bombs on seven countries in 2016, according to an analysis by the Council of Foreign Relations. All Muslim countries and I can assume that bombs killed many innocent civilians along with terrorists.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636

What was the purpose of attacking Afghanistan by USA and staying there for two decades spending so much money when I see many YouTube videos of homeless Americans, crumbling Infrastructure in many mid sized American cities? As Taliban came back to power and all efforts by USA was waste of time.

But in 1971 USA also supported Pakistan Army and Nixon and Kissinger tried their best to cover up genocide by Pakistan Army.

Nixon and Kissinger's Forgotten Shame By Gary J. Bass Sept. 29, 2013

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/opinion/nixon-and-kissingers-forgotten-shame.html

Looking away from genocide- Some ten million Bengali refugees fled to India, where untold numbers died in miserable conditions in refugee camps. Pakistan was a Cold War ally of the United States, and Richard Nixon and his national-security advisor, Henry Kissinger, resolutely supported its military dictatorship; they refused to impose pressure on Pakistan's generals to forestall further atrocities.https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/looking-away-from-genocide

If USA comes out in support of Jews then why they don't come out in support of Nigerian Christians?

https://www.ncronline.org/news/over-50000-massacred-nigeria-being-christian-last-14-years-report-says

https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/nigeria-is-worst-in-the-world-for-persecution-of-christians-in-2021

https://www.persecution.org/2022/05/14/nigeria-worlds-scariest-country-christian/

I also don't see much coverage in USA media about regular massacres of Nigerian Christians. Only some Nigerian websites and Christian websites mention, while CNN, NyTimes, Washingtons Post don't cover the attacks against Nigerians Christians.

Is there any political reason that USA supports Israel when they also support Pakistan and they care more for Jews than Christians of Nigeria, Egypt, Indonesia? They bomb Muslim countries and then lecture others about caring for Muslims?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/10/christians-egypt-unprecedented-persecution-report

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jul/27/where-in-the-world-is-it-worst-place-to-be-a-christian Ranthambor (talk) 03:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

American politicians in particular, but more generally most politicians worldwide, do things for only two reasons: to win more votes (or not lose them) by taking positions that more of their potential voters will (they think) like, and to attract more monetary donations (or not lose them) to their election campaigns by the same means. This is all tied up with obtaining and maintaining a grasp on power - each aspect feeds the other. In non-democratic countries where voting is less of a consideration, the power and money go hand in hand.

Much the same applies to most media outlets, who want purchases of and/or eyes on their material so that their advertisers pay them more, or if state-controlled want to push the current official lines. They publish what they think will most interest their audience. Comprehensiveness, balance, and a neutral point of view are not nonexistent, but are rare and generally not profitable.

Governments are at base amoral and pragmatic, they promote their own and (if we're lucky) their own peoples' interests, regardless of morality or consistency. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 5.71.208.84 (talk) 05:04, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically regarding the support for Israel, various organizations that represent (segments of) the American Jewish community are poised to accuse any politician of antisemitism if they do not support Israel 100%. This has a large impact on their fundraising prospects. Many Christian millennialists, in particular dispensationalists, also support Israel fully. --Lambiam 05:55, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ranthambor --- Your post was a more of a tedious political rant than a question. Have you bothered to notice that in October 2023 the actions of Hamas are extremely evil? Whatever the complexities of the broader mideast situation, someone who merely chose to be against evil might find himself/herself leaning toward Israel (in preference to Hamas) in October, 2023. Anyway, the bloom has been off the U.S.-Pakistan alliance for quite some time, since even before the 2011 discovery that Bin Laden was hanging out in Abbottabad. Many U.S. Congressmen and national security and military officials are in fact extremely disgusted with Pakistan's military and ISI perpetually stabbing the U.S. in the back, though the U.S. government has continued to work with Pakistan's government in limited and diminishing ways. Many of your other examples of U.S. actions (not inactions) are about 50 years old. Anyway, why not look at the annual reports of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom and the statements of the United States Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom? I bet some of the countries you mentioned as persecuting Christians are prominently mentioned... AnonMoos (talk) 09:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The unconditional support by the USA of Israel stems from well before October 2023. A thorough exposition is given by the book The Triangular Connection: America, Israel and American Jews, first published in 1982. --Lambiam 14:59, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any claim that the USA supports anything is absolutely incorrect. The USA is a land mass filled with people that highly disagree with one another. A policy set in motion by one politician may be supported by one group of people, but it will certainly be rejected by another group of people. As for media, it is a business. Whatever gets views is what is shown in media because views are used to make money. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 10:00, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have you heard of metonomy? Everyone who is not intellectually challenged understands that the headline "Moscow says high risk of 'third-party' entering war in Israel" does not imply that the city of Moscow, Russian Federation, has miraculously developed a speech organ. --Lambiam 12:45, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you misread my statement. I didn't state the United States cannot speak. I stated that it is a deeply divided population of people. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 13:38, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the context, "USA" obviously means the executive branch of the United States, which is a constitutional federal republic, and not just a populated area situated mainly between Canada and Mexico. --Lambiam 15:15, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.