Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 May 11

Humanities desk
< May 10	<< Apr | May | Jun >>	May 12 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

May 11

Joe Wicks (not the fictional character)

In his memoir/history B Street: A Gathering of Saints and Sinners, Lawney Reyes refers to a lawyer (later judge) named Joe Wicks in Grand Coulee during the period of the building of the dam. He says that Wicks was part-Cherokee, born in Oklahoma, and stood out for being one of the few Republicans around the building of the dam. He also says prior to coming to the Coulee, Wicks studied law at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., served in the Army in France during World War I, became a deputy U.S. marshall in Oklahoma (1921), later serving variously with the U.S. Treasury Department, FBI, and as one of Eliot Ness's Untouchables, and that he "was instrumental" in putting Al Capone in prison. In 1946, according to Reyes, Wick became a judge in Okanogan County, Washington and served for 15 years.

I consider Reyes a generally reliable source, and was about to turn this into an article, but I see that Wicks's name is not on our list of the eleven "Untouchables". Does anyone who knows more about the Untouchables know whether that list of eleven are the only people who would have been called "Untouchables", or what other relation to Ness et. al. Wicks might have had? - Jmabel | Talk 00:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Given the lack of response, I'll write something but keep it in user space until I can find at least one other independent source. - Jmabel | Talk 02:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I think I have this sorted out & duly qualified. The article is now at Joseph Wicks. - Jmabel | Talk 04:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you know of any ancient Cossa's

I have a friend looking up distant realtives who would like too know, they should have italian roots from what I am told. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iluvgofishband (talk • contribs) 01:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Baldassare Cossa is a famous one. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Quite a family, if that's Iluvgofishband's friend's family. (Note there are some other famous Cossas, for example Renaissance painter Francesco del Cossa or 19th century dramatist Pietro Cossa).

The Antipope's family Cossa came from the Gulf of Naples. They spelled their name "Cossa", "Coscia", or "Coxa", apparently from French "cuisse" (thigh), hence the leggy coat of arms (which reminded of a recent question on Italy's shape). A slightly different looking coat of arms can be found on "Nobili Napoletani" which states that the Cossa were an old Neapolitan family, Signori of the islands Ischia and Procida, and Dukes of Padula. Testimony of the family can be found in the chapel of the Aragonese Castle on Ischia and in the church Gesù Nuovo in Naples. ---Sluzzelin talk 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Old SCOTUS opinions

I just wrote the article on Missouri Kansas Texas Railway Company of Texas v. Clay May, a US Supreme Court case from 1904. This is the FindLaw link. My question: I can't tell who voted where. The decision says that Holmes wrote the opinion, and Brewer concurred; Brown wrote the dissent, and that White and McKenna "also dissented".

This is less clear than more recent syllabuses. I think this may imply the following:

• Everyone on the Court joined Holmes except for the Justices named above;
• White and McKenna joined Brown's dissent.

Am I correct? If not, I'd appreciate any pointers to a more clear enunciation of where the opinions fell on hundred-year-old cases like this. Thanks in advance - Tempshill (talk) 05:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I will check the books when I get to the office in the morning, but what you found on Findlaw is probably everything the Court handed down in that case. There is no syllabus at the head of the opinion, so there is no handy "voting lineup" to look for. Although the Reporter sometimes wrote a syllabus in cases from this era, the practice of doing that in every case decided by an opinion is much more recent.

The general rule is that every Justice voted with the majority and for the "opinion of the Court" unless otherwise stated. Here, Justice Brewer is listed as concurring separately, and the opinion states that he concurred only "in the judgment," meaning he did not join the Court's opinion. He did not write his own concurring opinion, but simply announced his vote; that was not uncommon at the time.

Justice Brown dissented with an opinion. Justice White and Justice McKenna also dissented. It is not indicated that they joined Brown's dissent. Most likely, if they had, then either the dissent would begin with "Mr. Justice Brown, joined by Mr. Justice White and Mr. Justice McKenna, dissenting..." and/or the dissenting opinion would end with a statement such as "I am authorized to state that Mr. Justice White and Mr. Justice McKenna join in these views." So it appears that White and McKenna dissented without explaining why, which again, was not uncommon at the time, particularly if the case was considered less critical. The Court was considered badly overworked in these years, and some Justices wanted to save most of their effort for their majority opinions.

With one Justice concurring only in the judgment and three dissenting, this confirms that everyone else must have voted with Justice Holmes, as otherwise he wouldn't have had five votes.

Hope this helps. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 06:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

This helps a lot; thanks very much. In the recent opinions there doesn't ever seem to be an announcement of "I dissent" or "I concur" without an opinion attached. One book breezily says that there were "three dissents" but although I was excited at first because this sounded to me like three dissenting opinions had been written, I figure now that the author meant "three dissenting votes", so in the end I"m sure you're right. I will edit the infobox accordingly. Thanks! I nominated this article for a DYK with the hook that a 25-buck fine went to the SCOTUS. Talk about a cranky railroad company. Tempshill (talk) 06:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I've now checked the printed opinion and can confirm that what you see on Findlaw is all you get for this case. As for your DYK hook, good luck, but remember that $25 was a lot of money in 1904, plus multiply $25 by every other farm adjoining a railroad track in the state of Texas and you get still a lot more than that, so the precedent was important. (And $25 is by no means the smallest amount in controversy ever involved in a Supreme Court case, either.) Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. Agreed on everything, except that $25 in 1902 is about $592 today. Do you happen to know the smallest amount in controversy to get to the Supreme Court? Tempshill (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

According to the Seventh Amendment, $20 is the minimum amount of money at question for a jury trial to be mandatory. Would this have any relevance? Nyttend (talk) 01:03, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it would; there might be, as in the $25 case above, some $1 fine that a company contested all the way up because they might owe $1 per product sold or something. Even if it were heard only by a judge they could appeal. Tempshill (talk) 01:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

No, the Seventh Amendment threshold is irrelevant here. Although there is a statutory minimum for federal cases based on diversity jurisdiction (currently $75,000), there is no statutory minimum for most other bases for federal jurisdiction, such as constitutional challenges. There have been many cases with smaller amounts in controversy, and of course the real amount was, from the railroad company's perspective, quite substantial. Also, note that, while Holmes had been on the court only a relatively short time, he had previously served on the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts for 20 years and was considered one of the leading jurists in the United States.

One odd thing about this case is that the defendant in error (i.e., the appellee) was not represented by counsel. This probably means that nobody argued for him, as opposed to meaning that he argued pro se (for himself). He won anyway. These days, parties before the Supreme Court are always represented by counsel, appointed by the court if necessary. John M Baker (talk) 18:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Mystery bread deliveries

Someone keeps leaving bread or doughnuts (chocolate doughnuts today) on the outside windowsill of the building where I work. This is a mystery to us all, but I work in a building (in Birmingham UK) that, until 14 years ago, was a synagogue. Since these mystery early morning deliveries began a few weeks ago, we wondered whether there was any connection with Passover, but they have continued sporadically ever since. I know Jewish people have a thing about bread, so I wondered whether there is any Jewish tradition that might account for this?--86.25.194.157 (talk) 10:00, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I doubt that there is a Jewish tradition about chocolate doughnuts.--80.58.205.37 (talk) 10:44, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

...which are not kosher for Passover. - Jmabel | Talk 15:31, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

If this was a video game, they'd be lulling you into a false sense of security until something significant happens. Then they'd poison the bread the day before. Food (haha) for thought. 90.193.232.41 (talk) 18:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Are they in boxes, or just loose on the sill? If it is the latter, it may be some scavenging animal as the culprit. — Michael J 22:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

The Mall, London

Hi, I've looked through our article on the Mall in London, which leads through Admiralty Arch to Buckingham Palace but I couldn't find any mention of how long the road is. My mum and I went to London recently and were astounded by how long it was. Anybody know? Thanks, Hadseys 10:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Google-maps lets you do a 'from' and 'to' and you can set if from end to end of the street. My calc gets it as 0.6m. It looks like 'The Mall' stops at Trafalgar Sq and turns into the Strand. At the other end it stops at the Victoria Memorial. Not sure if this is the case but that's the site i'd use. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The OP is correct, it runs from Admiralty Arch (but that might not show up on a map, it's one of the points leading out of Trafalgar Square) to Buckingham Palace. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Visiting Americans should note that our Mall has no shops (apart from a small bookshop at the ICA).--86.25.194.157 (talk) 14:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Not all of ours do either: National Mall, Washington, D.C. or Category:Defunct shopping malls in the United States. Rmhermen (talk) 14:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Nor the Central Mall of Jones Beach. - Jmabel | Talk 15:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Measuring from the centre of the Victoria Memorial to the middle of Admiralty Arch is 993 metres (0.617 mi). It is another 65 metres (213 ft) from Admirality Arch to the start of The Mall in Trafalgar Square. Astronaut (talk) 15:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

driving distance time from Brussels to Paris

How far long of a drive is it from Brussels to Paris? (and the other way, if it's different for some reason). 94.27.213.177 (talk) 10:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Google Maps says 311km/3hr 4 mins from Brussels to Paris and 304km, 3hrs 2 mins in the other direction. --Tango (talk) 10:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Institutions and people in developed Asian countries

Hello you fine folks at the Humanities reference desk. My greetings to you all. Some time back I had posted a question here on the varying economic and political development in different countries of the world and the basic reasons behind it. It was recommended here that I read the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond to find an answer. Well I purchased the book and read it, and while the treatment was not complete, it did provide valuable insights. Now I have a related question to ask you. One can understand the faster development of social, economic and political institutions in European countries and countries occupied by Europeans on the basis of the reasons described in the book. What I would like to know is the status of such institutions, and the associated public awareness/activism in non-European countries where economic affluence has taken root recently. My specific question is about countries like Japan, South Korea and Singapore which are now economically developed countries. Has economic development in these countries been accompanied by development of civil activism as in the west, leading to vibrant institutions for delivery of justice? Are the people in these countries similarly proactive about civil liberties? Is the justice system just as fair and efficient? Is the political scene as dynamic and representative? Is the news media equally free, critical and active? Are there media like cinema, theater and books through which the society reflects upon itself? In short I wish to know whether economic development in these countries as been accompanied by other adjuncts of western civilization that make the later progressive, representative, dynamic and just. Thanks for bearing with me on this long-ish question. I eagerly await the answer. Thanks you. -- ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 12:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Just to make things clearer, one of my interests in finding an answer to this question is figuring out whether a just and intelectually developed society develops naturally as a consequence of economic development. Thanks. -- ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 12:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The first Asian country that developed to a major degree in a "modern" way was Japan (which was never occupied by Europeans); it developed towards a quasi-open society in some respects during the Meiji period (in contrast with the preceding ossified Shogunate period), but definitely started going backwards with respect to closed government after the 1923 earthquake and then the Depression... AnonMoos (talk) 13:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Much as Germany did in the same period. The short answer is, yes, while the parallels are not perfect, the overall picture has been similar.

The first Asian country that developed to a major degree was China, and the fact that there would be no Western model to follow for many millennia was simply because it had very well established social, economic and political institutions hundreds of years before the Minoans built Crete. Perhaps the proper question should be why Western Europe and North America developed such a unique type of civilization, one that is not common in other parts of the world. I rephrase the question because, frankly, the way it was written implies that there is something lacking in East Asia. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Pakistan and counterinsurgency

Re: current operations in the Swat and Buner where the Pakistani Army seem to think that sending in gunships and firing artillery is the best way to do counterinsurgency. What solutions could the US (or anybody else for that matter) offer/propose to the Pakistani army in order to ameliorate unintended civilian casualties? ExitRight (talk) 14:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the Pakistani government could start by finally doing what they should have done long ago, and finally cleaning out all the Taliban supporters and Qaeda sympathizers and unreconstructed Hekmatyarists from the ISI. AnonMoos (talk) 03:52, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Tracking down a Heinlein novel from one snippet of information

In one of famed science fiction writer Robert Heinlein's novels, there is one extended passage in which a small band of pioneers on a remote outpost / another planet discovers that one in their midst is a destructive criminal who endangers the welfare of the group. There is discussion about what to do with him and it is decided to hold an impromptu trial which, however, hews closely – as much as possible – to standards of evidence and procedure accustomed back on Earth. The perp manages by hook and by crook to extricate himself from the situation through a combination of some fast talking and the fact that the impromptu "court" is hamstrung by its too-high requirements for meeting the burden of proof. Later the protagonist reflects that they made a mistake and he vows not to let anyone get away scot free again, due process be dammned.

Can someone help me narrow the search to just a small number of Heinlein's novels? Thanks in advance! --Goodmorningworld (talk) 17:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

My other half says it might be from a Lazarus Long story. Does this narrow it down? Apparently "due process" is a recurring theme in Heinlein's work. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Dimly think it might be Tunnel in the Sky. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that might well be the one. Thanks to both responders!--Goodmorningworld (talk) 20:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it was Tunnel. As I recall, there were two times people tried to violently challenge Rod's leadership, but neither went to a trial. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:52, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It was only a thought. I read it decades ago. Lazarus Long sounds just as likely. DJ Clayworth (talk) 05:05, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, this certainly sounds like a scene that could have been in Tunnel in the Sky, but I've read it several times and I'm pretty sure no such scene exists. No idea which of his works it might be from though, sorry. -Elmer Clark (talk) 16:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

FAMOUS GREEN WOODCUT-STYLE ARTIST

What's the name of the artist, I remember reading the wikipage on it, with the style of the usdollar bills? The us may have commissioned him and/or just copied his style. Not A.Durer, but very much like his drawings, although in darker greens. Cheers, --i am the kwisatz haderach (talk) 17:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

J. S. G. Boggs? Bus stop (talk) 05:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

If you're the Kwisatz Haderach, wouldn't you already know the answer...or is there a Guild Navigator on the ref desk? Clarityfiend (talk) 21:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Not Boggs. He was an Artist who inspired the style the Money took, not a Money Artist. American I'm pretty sure. Dang, this bugs me I can't think of it. I think I got the reference from an Anne Rice novel. Cheers, --i am the kwisatz haderach (talk) 22:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

in regards to my kwisatz haderach status, I know many possible outcomes and futures, the past, I leave that to the Wikipedians. I'll opt for the easy out, I know what needs to be known. --i am the kwisatz haderach (talk) 22:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Racism?

Is that racism [1]? It's a story of a hotel in Austria rejecting Jewish guests due to bad experiences. I mean, provided that they indeed have had bad experiences with Jewish guests, would this be considered an acceptable policy?--Mr.K. (talk) 17:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It is discriminating against people because of their race, that's racism. Whether it is acceptable or not is a matter of opinion. --Tango (talk) 17:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

To avoid semantic quibbling, let's leave out the "racism" part when talking about Jews, who—religion aside—are a people, or ethnic group. This is a matter of discrimination: based on one or several incidents of negative experience with particular members of some group, all members of that group are from now on denied access to a private establishment. If the laws of the country forbid discrimination on grounds of group membership, i.e. age, color, creed, sexual orientation, marital status, normative weight, etc., members of that group could press legal charges, i.e. the policy would be unacceptable (= illegal). Think of landlords who won't rent an apartment to unmarried couples, bosses who won't hire "unattractive" employees for front-office jobs, restaurants that don't allow admittance to children or dogs, etc. If someone has a grievance based on discrimination of this sort that isn't outright illegal in the local jurisprudence, a recourse might be to publicize the offending institution's policy and organize a boycott based on objection to such discrimination. -- Deborahjay (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

If it isn't illegal yet then at the rate the EU is churning out new anti-discrimination laws it soon will be. That may not be a good thing. A lot depends on how the hotel implements its policy. If they put up a sign outside then they will probably go out of business just from the shit storm in the media, and rightly so, on grounds of stupidity alone. If it's un-announced and something they keep to themselves, then who will complain? Not I. There are a couple of ethnic groups that I have strongly negative feelings about (from experience) and I don't want them near me if I can avoid it. If I claim the right of free association then I cannot deny it to others. Hannah Arendt wrote about that fifty years ago.--Goodmorningworld (talk) 20:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. Your candour and honesty are commendable, Gmw. My question, though, is: How do you know you have "experienced" these entire ethnic groups? You seem to have had some negative experiences with certain members of these groups. Do they necessarily reflect the ways that all members of these groups behave? Any member of an ethnic group is simultaneously a member of various other groups (male/female; short/tall; left-handed/right-handed; sports lovers/sports haters/indifferent; married/single; straight/gay; Wikipedia users/other; .... I could go on at some length). Why was their ethnicity the thing that turned you off the entire ethnic group? -- JackofOz (talk) 21:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Jack, I'm not going to discuss the nature of my experiences here, nor the designation of the group(s). I make no claims that my experiences can be extrapolated to a general validity and do not try to persuade you to join me in my outlook.--Goodmorningworld (talk) 21:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The left-handed/right-handed example does not hold in most of the cases. There are a lot of social, cultural, moral and educational differences between people coming from different parts of the world. Forcibly denying these differences will not solve the problem, besides that it can even lead to increase and not decrease racial tension. --131.188.3.20 (talk) 16:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, within the EU at least, the word "racism" and "anti-racism" laws include any race, origin and ethnical origin, no matter if someone consider it a "race" or not. The question is just if gathering information, statistics, or profiling an ethnic group can be considered racism, when you have real data and are acting upon these real data. (I'm not saying the hotel's owner had real data, just imagine he indeed had bad experiences.).--Mr.K. (talk) 21:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

In such profiling, what percentage of real data findings validate, thus justify, "protective discrimination?" In my neighborhood, the proprietor of a private country club weighs the potential loss of income from discouraging patrons of Ethnic Group "A" offset by the potential gained income from patrons of Ethnic Group "J" who according to the demographics are more numerous, well-off, and antipathetic to E.G. "A" – even factoring in losses from a boycott of some percentage of "J" who are actually sympathetic (at least in principle) to "A." The "right of free association" claimed by User:Goodmorningworld is actually a claim to disassociate; is that "right" equally applicable to vendors as well as consumers? -- Deborahjay (talk) 21:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It's part and parcel of the right of free association, which would be incomplete unless it included the right to not associate. Equally applicable to vendors as well as consumers? That's an excellent question. Of course, smarter people than I have hashed out the ramifications, up and down and in all directions of the compass, decades ago. I could not possibly add anything and I am not even up to the task of giving an adequate summary of those dusty dried papers. My simpleton's answer is, it depends: if you're a vendor with a small market share, acting on your own without coordination, your right to choose with whom to do business should be close to 100 percent; if you're a vendor with a near-monopoly, close to 0 percent. (I told you not to expect much from me…)--Goodmorningworld (talk) 21:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Google helped me to find this page, which I believe is what I was remembering of Arendt, especially the last quote: ""What equality is to the body politic—its innermost principle—discrimination is to society," she wrote.--Goodmorningworld (talk) 22:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

A few years ago in Japan, a group of ex-lepers were out on a day trip, and they were refused entry to a public bath because of their history. They sued the public bath and won a lot of damages. This was famous for a short while and caused outrage among the population. It is illegal to discriminate against anyone in Japan (a law recently passed). There was an African man who was refused entry to a clothing shop, and he sued the shop. However, it is very prevelant, and some places (notably bars and hostess bars) openly display signs outside the shop saying 'No Entry To Foreigners'. Adverts for job vacancies usually specify age ranges and even gender as well as nationality ('must be Japanese female, age 20-25' for an office job that anyone can do, for example.).--KageTora (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 23:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

To continue Japanese-bashing: There also is a great cartoon (published on a japanese anti-racism site) warning the daughters of the land not to associate with foreign and black penisses. Good or bad jokes aside, "gaijin" and the way the Japanese use it looks very racist. But then the Chinese and esp. the Red Guards in the 60s were anti-European racists to the core and got only blind adulation from us in return.--Radh (talk) 07:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Racism against foreigners in China, though, is just a matter of who's White and who's Wong :)--KageTora (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Most Japanese are not racist. I lived there for ten years and was married to Japanese woman. I was treated with open arms by most people. I never thought the term gaijin to be racist. Many foreigners in Japan do, because they interpret it as 'outsider', meaning you will never be part of the group, but in actual fact it is an abbreviation of 'gaikokujin' which means 'person from overseas', as we all actually were, being foreigners. When Japanese inadvertently used the term to me, they would always apologize immediately, because they have heard that we find it offensive. I didn't find it offensive at all. I WAS a gaijin. No two buts about it.--KageTora (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 07:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

@DEborahjay: "Protective discrimination" actually means discrimination to protect a minority in danger of exclusion,not to protect yourself against it. @ all I suppose that some services are so important that no discrimination could ever be allowed. People with some 'issues' against members of some minority should simply abstain from providing these basic services. To stop Japanese-bashing: Japanese, Germans and some other people define themselves through blood/race/genes/whatever. That does not imply racism, but it's easier to be racist if you are German or Japanese. On the other hand of the spectrum we have people who define themselves on culture, language or birth place. That doesn't immunize yourself against racism, but it helps.--80.58.205.37 (talk) 12:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

To re-ignite bashing: It may be easier for us huns to be racists, but it was the enlightenment french and british (for Hume, see Popkin' s famous essay) who started the whole mess, Fascism as a political theory and party was at first stronger in France than in Germany (long before Hitler); Zeev Sternhell has proven the depth of french fascism in many books.--Radh (talk) 13:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

@Radh: A little bit off-topic, no one has accused you of anything. And what do the Brits and French have to do in this discussion?--80.58.205.37 (talk) 16:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

They, some of them built modern racism--Radh (talk) 16:52, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

You started it! 80.41.124.217 (talk) 18:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

But that is the point, the german romantics and people like Turnvater (gymnast) Jahn are late, it is an enlightenment thing. Even fascism was earlier in France than in Germany, read Sternhell.--Radh (talk) 19:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm... going to assume you've never seen the episode I just linked to. The point is, what does any of that have to do with anything? (This is a rhetorical question) 80.41.124.217 (talk) 21:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, Radh started everything - see Invasion_of_Poland or [2] for a reliable source.--88.6.117.202 (talk) 10:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

In the humanities, what are the applications and benefits of a tree structure?

The Transhumanist 20:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I dunno... what would be the benefits of moving this query to the Mathematics Reference Desk? Apparently not -- Deborahjay (talk) 20:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The math guys would relate the benefits of tree structures to mathematicians and in technological applications (to computers and robots). But I'm looking for the benefits to humans in using tree structures directly, such as those built manually by humans and those published in books or on web pages. Like the example given in the article tree structure - it is a tree of an encyclopedia. What would the benefits of having a complete one of those be? The Transhumanist 01:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The benefits are that are they allow you to organize, analyze, compare, process, or just discuss structural data of hierarchical systems. As with all reductionist approaches, the disadvantages lie in what is obscured or left out: relations that are neither hierarchical nor transitive, or overlapping sets for example. It really depends on which system you are looking at and which questions you are asking about this system. A very superficial answer bordering on the useless, I admit, but if you can specify what kind of tree structures you are thinking about, it should be easier to point out the advantages (compared to other mappings of structures). ---Sluzzelin talk 00:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Take the example in the article tree structure, for example. It is a tree of an encyclopedia. Let's say the whole encyclopedia is rendered into a tree structure. What would the benefits of that be? (For a human user).

The Transhumanist 01:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I do understand that you want answers from multiple fields, but you have to understand that we are all the same people. That's why we ask not to have the same questions posted on multiple desks. We wouldn't notice otherwise. --KageTora (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 02:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Context adjusted, as you advised. Thank you for the suggestion. The Transhumanist 03:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I suggest changing the title once more to something like 'For general education purposes,' rather than 'In the humanities'.--KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 04:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Potok's Asher Lev sees Picasso Crucifixion work

I'm reading CHAIM POTOK novel 'The Gift of Asher Lev'. In it, he mentions many art pieces. He mentions a crucifixion done by Picasso when 25. Picasso being born in 1881, 25ish from 1905-1907. All I can find on the web is a Crucifixion done in 1930. Can anyone find a link for this Potok referenced Picasso? Cheers, --i am the kwisatz haderach (talk) 20:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Texas A&M's On-line Picasso Project[3] lists 23 crucifixions, including OPP.96:077[4] from 1896, OPP.03:137[5] from 1903, and 4 from 1915-1918, but none from 1905-07. You could look through the year-by-year archives in case it has a non-obvious title; there's A LOT of paintings and drawings there and I've not checked them all (it's a vast archive but I assume not 100% comprehensive, and of course Potok being a novelist might have changed dates or made it up). --82.41.11.134 (talk) 22:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

did the Pope give any reasons for Palestinians having a state?

Did the Pope on his visits to Israel give any visits for his declaration that the Palestinians should have a state? 94.27.149.212 (talk) 21:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

No, why? This is a media pope. To show up is enough to say something. --Mr.K. (talk) 21:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Aside from His Holiness heading a major world religion and presumably being a recognized arbiter (certainly among his followers) of moral stature, how relevant is this considering the relatively small number and low percentage of Roman Catholics among the Israeli and Palestinian populations? -- Deborahjay (talk) 21:50, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

How relevant is what? the pope's reasons? His stance on the Holy Land is certainly massively relevant for all the Catholics around the world. Jerusalem is, afterall, the epicentre of their faith. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:50, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, believe me, Arabic news networks are making a big deal of everything the Pope has been doing of late, so Arabs seem to think it is relevant too. Wrad (talk) 23:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, although he is definitely not the representative of the Western world, I have often got the impression that Arabs see the pope as one.

Israel/Palestine is the Christian Holy Land and the Pope is by far the most important Christian religious leader (and I'm an atheist of Protestant descent). Alex Middleton (talk) 02:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you have any reasons for the Palestinians not having a state? DJ Clayworth (talk) 05:01, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I have one. —Tamfang (talk) 16:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

There are over a million Maronite Catholics in Lebanon alone, that should be enough of the Pope's flock to be interested in the subject matter. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 17:03, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The query is specifically about the Pope's visit to Israel. As seen in the Israeli press (links to web portals of the two English-language dailies) during this papal visit, Israelis—the vast majority of whom are Jews, among whom a significant percentage are still-living survivors (victims) of the Holocaust—are concerned about how this Pope sees the Jewish people's right to exist and have a secure state, certainly relevant in relation to his stance regarding the Palestinian cause. -- Deborahjay (talk) 04:15, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Here is the text of the Pope's Bethlehem speech. He does not give a reason for supporting the creation of a Palestinian state beyond trying to achieve peace and prosperity for all. --Sean 12:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)