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June 28[edit]

Song lyrics[edit]

I need to get this song out of my head, so I’m asking this.

The 1978 song “Feeling That Way” by Journey says this:

When the summer's gone She'll be there standing by the light (or standing by the liiiyiiight) Once she's been to where she's gone to She should know wrong from right

Questions: What the heck does this mean? Is it about having had sex? (Many songs are about this.)

If not, then let me ask: How do you stand by a light? Was she leaning on a lamppost? It’s easy to stand under a light, but not so easy to stand by a light, unless it was a footlight.

Where has she been? Can we all go to that mystical place? Would I learn wrong from right if I went there? And do you have that knowledge once you have been there, or only once you go there, come back, and stand near a light? And is this the only way to learn wrong from right?

I need to learn wrong from right, and I want to know what these lyrics mean (if anything).

71.228.112.175 (talk) 00:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You don't know wrong from right??? --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:51, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They appear to seek knowledge, specifically carnal knowledge. --Lambiam 11:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to everyone here. Yes, it does sound like "seeking carnal knowledge" is on the right track. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 09:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Baseball Bugs Not always! 71.228.112.175 (talk) 10:00, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Potentially one could stand (or do other activities) By the Light of the Silvery Moon. From which article I note that meaningless romantic song lyrics have been annoying people for at least a hundred years. If we draw a comparison from light to moon, and summer to June, then by a process of elimination wrong from right must mean spoon. I note though that the full lyrics include "am I just your fool" and "the only one I love", so I think that where she's gone to is a far field in which to sow her wild oats, and "right" from the perspective of the singer is an exclusive relationship. Card Zero (talk) 11:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Card Zero Spoon, that's great. I'm off to a remote field now to sow some oats, exclusively I hope. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 10:06, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lyrics are a form of poetry, and while some poetry intends to convey a very concrete message or story (e.g. The Charge of the Light Brigade), much other poetry is often deliberately ambiguous or enigmatic. In such works the poet is, in effect, collaborating with the individual reader/listener, whose own personality and knowledge contributes to their interpretation.

Different listeners/readers may therefore have different interpretations of what the words mean, or might mean: though different, none of these interpretations are "incorrect." Sometimes a writer has a specific meaning in their own mind, but deliberately withholds it to allow such free-ranging interpretations. Sometimes readers find meanings that the writer unconsciously inserted, or had never intended, sometimes to the writer's surprise and delight. (All this applies equally to music without lyrics.)

Unless one of the song's writers (Steve Perry, Greg Rolie and Aynsley Dunbar) or someone else 'in the know' has stated a specific meaning for these lyrics, you are free to ponder and interpret what they mean to you: that's the point. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.201.73.76 (talk) 11:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If in doubt, rock songs mean sex. But whether it's sexual in nature or not, the singer is supposing that the subject will have gone through something bad or been tempted by bad things and then come out the other side. They're using light and dark to symbolize right and wrong (see Black-and-white dualism). Sex is frequently framed as a moral question, so it's not unreasonable to assume that sexual experience is intended (and in summer no less). Matt Deres (talk) 14:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Compare also The Boys of Summer (song). Card Zero (talk) 14:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Matt Deres Wow, that was an interesting and thoughtful reply, Thanks for the links; I will check them out. And now I'll always remember your phrase "If in doubt, rock songs mean sex". Fantastic! 71.228.112.175 (talk) 10:03, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So, from now on, all you need is drugs and rock, because rock already includes sex. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:31, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Originally, "rock and roll" was a slang term that meant sex. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.195.174.88 (talk) 07:27, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spectre[edit]

Was the name of the evil terrorist organization SPECTRE in Ian Fleming's James Bond series inspired by the phrase "the specter of communism"? 2601:646:8A81:6070:6DDC:7C7B:BDD3:2E97 (talk) 01:23, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly, but it would make a lot more sense if you wrote that expression the way Marx and Engels wrote it themselves in their manifesto 100 years ago - "The spectre of communism" - rather than in the American way. HiLo48 (talk) 06:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Technicality: I looked at The Communist Manifesto and I think "spectre" is due to Samuel Moore (translator), from England, in 1888. Before that, the first English translation had it as a "frightful hobgoblin" and a "ghost". Card Zero (talk) 10:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Marx brothers themselves used Gespenst.^[1] --Lambiam 10:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So the idea was more like the siren call of communism. That makes more sense. Card Zero (talk) 11:04, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, the literal meaning of Gespenst is "ghost" (as in, "Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters!") – a supernatural entity that inspires one with fear. Hence, figuratively, something that is scary or spooky you can't get a grip on. Workers may lose their sleep, worried by das Gespenst der Arbeitslosigkeit (the spectre of unemployment),^[2] while the guardians of monetary stability are fighting das Gespenst der Inflation.^[3] --Lambiam 18:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article says SPECTRE was created by Fleming as a politically neutral replacement for SMERSH, in case the cold war ended: also that it had commercial motivations and mafia elements. So the remaining question is whether the name of this apolitical gang was taken by Fleming from "the spectre of communism". Its narrative role is a ghost of the role of the Soviet SMERSH, so there could have been logic in Fleming's mind along those lines. Card Zero (talk) 10:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]